Shanghai Masters ATP 1000

isabelle

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Mile said:
isabelle said:
Nole on his way to win Shanghai ????

Its harder to pass spoilers this part of year than to beat top 5 seeds. So yes, after first two rounds chanches increase much more.

You're perfectly right, first rounds are always tricky. Can't wait to see Julien B / Youngderer nevertheless... (hope BA won't spoil the party)
 

Federberg

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Haven't watched Julien play, but those matches are usually good. I hope we get to see it!
 

Front242

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herios said:
1972Murat said:
Some shots KuKu is hitting today...crazy.

There are these random Top 100 players who are in the zone sometimes. He is one of them. Then you wonder what prevents him to have better results on a regular basis.

Fitness. Remember the first set he hit against Nadal at Wimbledon this year? DTL FHs were on fire and then his movement went to pieces in the last 3 sets. Think he had a thigh/groin bandage/strap on there.
 

kskate2

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Swiss Maestro in da house. He came out the gates a little cleaner tonight. On serve 3-2
 

kskate2

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federberg said:
What an extraordinary result. What happened?

Andy was wiping the floor w/ David in the 1st set. Doing everything well, the serve was firing, groundies were on point and the movement was spectacular. In 2nd set David was tired of the run-around and picked us level. Murray's serve numbers came down and David was abusing the 2nd serve. Once Ferrer got the break in the decider at 2-1, it was more of the same from set 2.

The biggest thing I see is the confidence. When a player raises his level (like Ferrer did today), Andy is not countering it by raising his own. He just doesn't have it against the top players anymore and one can understand why.

The weak 2nd serve is still an issue, especially against good returners (Ferrer) and he doesn't have the killer instinct of the other big 4. That may have something to do w/ his coach, I'm not sure, but pusher Andy is not winning any matches against top players at this stage of his comeback. He needs to be aggressive from start to finish just to get some confidence and sustain a consistent level of play for at least 2 sets.
 

Federberg

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^I've always been amazed he's been able to achieve the success he has with that 2nd serve. It's almost WTA level.

It's extraordinary.. he really goes for his first serve like it's a lottery shot. If it goes in he doesn't have to confront how poor the 2nd serve is. Fair play to him, he's got away with it for years
 

DarthFed

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^ I don't think he's gotten away with it. The rest of his game is so good on the whole that he has still done very well but the 2nd serve is one of the things that kept him from perhaps being on par with the top 3 or close to it.
 

Front242

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Well, gym time for me. Watched about 30 seconds and seems to have been a good practice session for Roger against Really Boring Agut.
 

Federberg

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DarthFed said:
^ I don't think he's gotten away with it. The rest of his game is so good on the whole that he has still done very well but the 2nd serve is one of the things that kept him from perhaps being on par with the top 3 or close to it.

Well.. I meant that in the past he's been able to get away with it against lesser players. Although he's always been more vulnerable to an early exit than the other top guys. I'm just surprised that it didn't happen more often
 

DarthFed

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federberg said:
DarthFed said:
^ I don't think he's gotten away with it. The rest of his game is so good on the whole that he has still done very well but the 2nd serve is one of the things that kept him from perhaps being on par with the top 3 or close to it.

Well.. I meant that in the past he's been able to get away with it against lesser players. Although he's always been more vulnerable to an early exit than the other top guys. I'm just surprised that it didn't happen more often

Agreed, I just think it's everything for Murray right now, it's kind of like before 2008 when his game was too defensive and too up and down. The bad 2nd serve has always been there even when he won 2 slams but he was playing a lot more aggressively under Lendl's guidance. Now he isn't doing much of anything well.
 

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Nice beatdown of Agut today, he needed a quick one after the long match yesterday. Let's see if Bradley Cooper gives him more problems.
 

DarthFed

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Yea I think they played at RG last year and it was an easy win for Roger but Benneteau was really playing awful then. I think Roger will take it in 2 sets this time though.
 

kskate2

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^ More likely 2 tight sets, and if Fed starts like he did yesterday it could go 3.
 

Federberg

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^if he plays like he did today, it will be two quick sets. I can't remember but.. those times where Julien gave Roger problems was it at times when Roger was experiencing a dip? What I'm getting at, is that has Julien ever given Roger trouble when we think Rogers form is decent?
 

DarthFed

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Wimbledon 2012 in the 3rd round. I think the problems came out of nowhere that day. Roger won that one after rallying from 2 sets down.

Benneteau beat him at 2009 Paris and 2013 Rotterdam. Certainly his form in 2013 was bad but the loss in 2009 was a big shock.
 

Federberg

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Yes I remember. Benneteau was bawling his eyes out as he neared the finish :D

I always take Bercy results with a pinch of salt. The top guys have one eye on the WTF, and are probably only going there, either to tune up, or because they are required to. But for sure.. Wimbledon 2012 was a shocker. No excuses for that one
 

GameSetAndMath

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herios said:
Broken_Shoelace said:
It's surprising. Ferrer's actually never been too tough of a match-up for Murray on hards (before today, all but one of his victories over him were on clay, which isn't surprising). He can't really hit through him and even though he's usually the aggressor in the rallies, he doesn't have enough fire-power to get past Murray's counterpunching, and he lacks a big serve. I didn't see the match today so I can't comment but Murray's been in shaky form since his surgery. I still think he'll come good eventually, but this has been a year to forget as far as he's concerned.

If I remember well, Ferrer had a MP against Murray in Miami final in 2012

He not only had a MP, he stopped the play during that MP and challenged a call
for a ball to be out and it backfired on him and eventually lost.
 

brokenshoelace

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GameSetAndMath said:
herios said:
Broken_Shoelace said:
It's surprising. Ferrer's actually never been too tough of a match-up for Murray on hards (before today, all but one of his victories over him were on clay, which isn't surprising). He can't really hit through him and even though he's usually the aggressor in the rallies, he doesn't have enough fire-power to get past Murray's counterpunching, and he lacks a big serve. I didn't see the match today so I can't comment but Murray's been in shaky form since his surgery. I still think he'll come good eventually, but this has been a year to forget as far as he's concerned.

If I remember well, Ferrer had a MP against Murray in Miami final in 2012

He not only had a MP, he stopped the play during that MP and challenged a call
for a ball to be out and it backfired on him and eventually lost.

Yup, I remember that. Nobody said players can't overcome a tough stylistic match-up, especially when they play against each other so often. Ferrer's entire career is pretty much proof anyway.
 

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What the hell, Andy? Reflecting on it, he's not going to have any impact at the O2 even if he makes it at the moment, not going to get too upset if he doesn't manage it, this year has been a write off. Hopefully he can rectify it at least to some extent in 2015.

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