Serious PC thread

[Obsi]

Nope. Your statement was so absurd I had to ask the question. Didn’t know if you were trolling or not. Not sure why a question is considered insulting at all. In my defence I didn’t realise at the time you were a moron. My bad

Asking a question doesn’t necessarily mean it is disrespectful but, in some cases, it does. Another confirmation you’re an imbecile.

 

[Horsa]

Don't be sorry. You're being fair, generous and mature.

O.K. Thank you very much.

 

[Federberg]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...al-advances-towards-kate-maltby-tory-activist

Is it just me or is this getting a bit absurd? I'm not sure that touching a woman's knee in a pub constitutes sexual harassment. She should have been adult enough to say "Look I'm in a relationship, or I'm not interested". Something to put him off. And this can be done without causing offence unless you're a fucking teenager. I very much doubt he would have pursued anything after that (if he's a normal guy), unless he really is a bad sort. If a man thinks he has a flirtatious or even just friendly relationship with a woman he might send her risque messages, but again.. that's fairly normal. If she hadn't been up front in the first place at his first approach, he might not have known she wasn't interested.

I mean... ffs! Are men not allowed to make a pass at a woman anymore? I don't get it. The species needs to procreate to exist!

 

[mrzz]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...al-advances-towards-kate-maltby-tory-activist

Is it just me or is this getting a bit absurd? I'm not sure that touching a woman's knee in a pub constitutes sexual harassment. She should have been adult enough to say "Look I'm in a relationship, or I'm not interested". Something to put him off. And this can be done without causing offence unless you're a fucking teenager. I very much doubt he would have pursued anything after that (if he's a normal guy), unless he really is a bad sort. If a man thinks he has a flirtatious or even just friendly relationship with a woman he might send her risque messages, but again.. that's fairly normal. If she hadn't been up front in the first place at his first approach, he might not have known she wasn't interested.

I mean... ffs! Are men not allowed to make a pass at a woman anymore? I don't get it. The species needs to procreate to exist!

This is the ultimate step of evolution theory -- survival of the fittest: You either score or go to jail!

 

[Horsa]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...al-advances-towards-kate-maltby-tory-activist

Is it just me or is this getting a bit absurd? I'm not sure that touching a woman's knee in a pub constitutes sexual harassment. She should have been adult enough to say "Look I'm in a relationship, or I'm not interested". Something to put him off. And this can be done without causing offence unless you're a fucking teenager. I very much doubt he would have pursued anything after that (if he's a normal guy), unless he really is a bad sort. If a man thinks he has a flirtatious or even just friendly relationship with a woman he might send her risque messages, but again.. that's fairly normal. If she hadn't been up front in the first place at his first approach, he might not have known she wasn't interested.

I mean... ffs! Are men not allowed to make a pass at a woman anymore? I don't get it. The species needs to procreate to exist!

I agree. I don't think touching a woman's knee constitutes sexual harassment either. What next? You can't touch the hand of a person the opposite gender? If his hand was further up her leg that would be different. I've experienced sexual harassment in the past & they tried to touch me in other places which ladies have & gentlemen don't. I didn't just let them. Telling them I wasn't interested didn't work so I took their hand from where it shouldn't be & walked away. In my case it wasn't just where they tried to touch me but the things they said but I changed the subject. The other question is "Why is it taking so long for women to report this behavior?" I reported these incidents & got out.

Men should be able to make a pass at women. Some women like it. It's up to the individuals in question to express how they feel about one another & refuse if they're not interested.

 

[Horsa]

I've got questions that I think need thinking about & are very apt for this discussion. To what extent does free speech need respecting & to what extent do we have to be politically correct? To what extent do we have to respect anti-P.C. views when they're aired & to what extent can we object to them being aired? On the other hand, to what extent do we have to respect P.C. views when they're aired & to what extent can we object to them being aired? Just a few questions I came up with when thinking about the topic. I'd be interested to hear people's attempts to answer the questions as I think both free speech & political correctness are both necessary & need respecting to a certain extent. The question is to what extent?.

 

[mrzz]

^Good Question(s).

I think free speech is surely needed. In the limit situation -- where you have a very "mature" society, with strong institutions, you can have 100% free speech, as you can trust garbage hate speech will end in the... garbage. I do understand that we are far from that situation, and sometimes it is in the interest of the many to control free speech (even if in 9 out of 10 times this power is not wisely used).

I do not think PC is needed, at all. That's my main point all along. I think that some goals of political correctness are always to be desired. I would love to see people respecting each other, taking care about how each group feels and etc, but I do not think this is something that should be enforced. Encouraged, maybe. Once you force people to be nice, being nice means nothing. You cannot enforce people to respect everything around them. Hell, there is a lot of things I don't respect, and I can guarantee nothing in the world would force me to.

Anyway your question was about extents. I guess that this is completely case specific.

 

[Horsa]

^Good Question(s).

I think free speech is surely needed. In the limit situation -- where you have a very "mature" society, with strong institutions, you can have 100% free speech, as you can trust garbage hate speech will end in the... garbage. I do understand that we are far from that situation, and sometimes it is in the interest of the many to control free speech (even if in 9 out of 10 times this power is not wisely used).

I do not think PC is needed, at all. That's my main point all along. I think that some goals of political correctness are always to be desired. I would love to see people respecting each other, taking care about how each group feels and etc, but I do not think this is something that should be enforced. Encouraged, maybe. Once you force people to be nice, being nice means nothing. You cannot enforce people to respect everything around them. Hell, there is a lot of things I don't respect, and I can guarantee nothing in the world would force me to.

Anyway your question was about extents. I guess that this is completely case specific.

Thank you very much.

I think free speech is needed but we need to respect & consider other people's rights to have & air opinions as well as our own though we don't have to agree with them. If other people don't respect our rights to have & air opinions we don't have to respect theirs. Respect is a 2-way thing. It has to be earned. It's not just given. Once lost trust is lost too. Should we give respect to people who have betrayed our trust & don't respect us? I don't think so because we need to have respect for ourselves too. In fact we need to respect ourselves before we respect others because how can we learn to respect others if we don't respect ourselves.

I agree with your comment (but I'll have to twist it a bit but not so much that it loses its meaning) that if we lived in a very mature society we could have 100% free speech & P.C. wouldn't be needed, unfortunately we don't so we need P.C. to a certain extent so some people consider other people's views & don't call people what they disagree with but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade but agree that P.C. is out of hand today. I think good old etiquette, tact, diplomacy & euphemisms could solve these problems though. I got your point a bit since. I agree with your point that forcing people to be nice isn't good. I've worked with & for smarmy people who agree with everything everyone else says as if they don't have a mind of their own. I find them annoying. I think that there should be a 50/50 split between extent of free speech & P.C. I like sitting on the fence. It's rather comfortable. Lol. I guess to make me move you'd have to electrify it. Lol.

I get your answer. Extent to which we should have free speech 100% & extent to which you think P.C. should exist non-existent in your opinion.

 

[Federberg]

It's good to se this sexual assault paradigm going on now. I see Al Franken is being destroyed on tv. Not sure if this will affect his senate career, thought he was one of the good ones, but this has to happen. The world has to change, we men have to change. The sheer terror some guys who've done wrong in the past must be feeling right now must be horrific. But what should come of it in the end is that you'll have to be a special kind of stupid to do this stuff in the future.

 

[Horsa]

It's good to se this sexual assault paradigm going on now. I see Al Franken is being destroyed on tv. Not sure if this will affect his senate career, thought he was one of the good ones, but this has to happen. The world has to change, we men have to change. The sheer terror some guys who've done wrong in the past must be feeling right now must be horrific. But what should come of it in the end is that you'll have to be a special kind of stupid to do this stuff in the future.

I agree to a point. I want women to be able to report it if it's happening to them & something to be done about it. I don't want it to be used as an excuse by women to try to milk wealthy men which is always a risk with high-profile men who have been accused in the past & continue to be accused especially those who can no longer defend themselves for whatever reason so their estate is taken away from their families or charities. If they did it, fair enough, they should be punished for it, no questions asked. Justice to be served. If wealthy men are being accused by women just to make money the women should be found out & brought to book so the man's reputation isn't ruined. Ideally, these allegations should be kept private until investigated & proven or disproved.

 

[Federberg]

I agree to a point. I want women to be able to report it if it's happening to them & something to be done about it. I don't want it to be used as an excuse by women to try to milk wealthy men which is always a risk with high-profile men who have been accused in the past & continue to be accused especially those who can no longer defend themselves for whatever reason so their estate is taken away from their families or charities. If they did it, fair enough, they should be punished for it, no questions asked. Justice to be served. If wealthy men are being accused by women just to make money the women should be found out & brought to book so the man's reputation isn't ruined. Ideally, these allegations should be kept private until investigated & proven or disproved.

That's a fair point. I think at the moment this is the initial explosive wave. Things will settle down eventually. But if men's thinking is permanently reset that this type of stuff is unacceptable then it'll be a big step forward. Ironically right now, if this is pushed too far, it could actually be a set back for women as powerful men will become reluctant to have talented women anywhere near them. It's going to be interesting to see how this evolves

 

[Horsa]

That's a fair point. I think at the moment this is the initial explosive wave. Things will settle down eventually. But if men's thinking is permanently reset that this type of stuff is unacceptable then it'll be a big step forward. Ironically right now, if this is pushed too far, it could actually be a set back for women as powerful men will become reluctant to have talented women anywhere near them. It's going to be interesting to see how this evolves

Definitely. It should have been unacceptable to sexually harass women in the first place. I also think for some people the definition of sexual harassment needs clarifying e.g. the journalist who accused an M.P. of sexually harassing her when he just touched a part of her body that wasn't private. It could also be a driving force for women with talent who have enough capital & business brains as it could encourage them to set up their own business if they have good saleable ideas, the ability to make these ideas a reality, customer care & service skills & I.T. skills so they can do their financial paperwork on sage or spreadsheet or the ability to do their daily & weekly sales records & weekly figures sheets the old way, not forgetting knowledge of the laws that govern the type of business they'll be in & health & safety including knowledge of H.A.S.A.W.A 1974 & the ability to complete H & S risk assessments. It will indeed be interesting to see how this develops & I'd love to see more women own their own businesses, etc.

 

[mrzz]

we men have to change

"We men"? I guess you never harassed or physically assaulted a woman and I guarantee you me neither. Now every time a freaking bitch gets beaten by the giant brainless piece of shit that she chose to be with I am reminded that I need to change? Lock the animal on jail and FFS pick a human next time.

I see the point that we still have a social problem, but blaming this on "men" rather than on ignorance, general lack of civility, general lack of respect for law and etc and etc does not help a bit.

 

[Federberg]

"We men"? I guess you never harassed or physically assaulted a woman and I guarantee you me neither. Now every time a freaking bitch gets beaten by the giant brainless piece of shit that she chose to be with I am reminded that I need to change? Lock the animal on jail and FFS pick a human next time.

I see the point that we still have a social problem, but blaming this on "men" rather than on ignorance, general lack of civility, general lack of respect for law and etc and etc does not help a bit.

Apart from a few drunken comments at office parties in my 20s, I think I'm fully on the side of the light. The fact that gals have also made similar comments to, and about me (even repeatedly pinched by behind in a bar), makes me feel I definitely come out of this even. But, don't be so sensitive! It's fair to say that men, in general, and I include "us" have taken a lot of things foregranted over the years when it comes to women. I'm not going to pretend I've been perfect all my life, or even that the views I have now, were what I had 20 years ago

 

[Horsa]

Apart from a few drunken comments at office parties in my 20s, I think I'm fully on the side of the light. The fact that gals have also made similar comments to, and about me (even repeatedly pinched by behind in a bar), makes me feel I definitely come out of this even. But, don't be so sensitive! It's fair to say that men, in general, and I include "us" have taken a lot of things foregranted over the years when it comes to women. I'm not going to pretend I've been perfect all my life, or even that the views I have now, were what I had 20 years ago

I agree with you that it's a 2 way thing & women have sometimes behaved in ways that men get penalized for so they should be punished in the same way as a man would be.

 

[Federberg]

I think we're getting close to overshoot territory on this sexual abuse paradigm. Now it seems that this is not being turned into an airing of grievances vehicle. FFS... one of Rep Conyer's accusers is basically saying that he was rude to her His settling a sexual abuse allegation is one thing, but this other one... come on man..

 

[britbox]

I think we're getting close to overshoot territory on this sexual abuse paradigm. Now it seems that this is not being turned into an airing of grievances vehicle. FFS... one of Rep Conyer's accusers is basically saying that he was rude to her His settling a sexual abuse allegation is one thing, but this other one... come on man..

That's silly, but Conyer's face much bigger allegations than that alone... looks like he's been using public money to pay his accusers off.

 

[Horsa]

I'm very sorry I spoilt everyone's fun by starting relevant & finding subtle links that changed the subject & changed the subject before coming back to the relevant subject. I'm now aware this can be annoying & was out of order.

 

[Federberg]

 

[britbox]

^ Yep, The way the world is heading....