Serious PC thread

[Federberg]

Federberg..I am just going to make it brief..Ice Cube is an entertainer but he doesn't speak for the majority of Blacks, Latins, folks of American Indian heritage or etc..

When you say "but I'm telling you that's how they see it..". Explain please who is 'they" and why is it so important that you say "but I'm telling you"?

oh I'm not claiming that he does. I was just trying to give an example to the sort of thinking that perpetuates the use of the 'n' word in the black community. That vid clip is in no way definitive, just flavour.

PS, not sure the Latino or American Indian communities are relevant in the context of that word

 

[brokenshoelace]

I am asking a question. Here is the question: How bad can a word be if a 40 million people , the people that should be MOST OFFENDED by it are free to use it?

When used between black people among themselves, not very. When a white person uses it against a black person, extremely offensive. Not sure what's so difficult to understand. I'm sure you'll say "but that's exactly my point, why is that the case?" but we both know why that's the case so I really don't know where you're going with this. I don't think for a second that you're trying to normalize the word, but I think you're asking a question to which the answer is very obvious. Context, history, intentions, etc... all matter a lot.

 

[the AntiPusher]

oh I'm not claiming that he does. I was just trying to give an example to the sort of thinking that perpetuates the use of the 'n' word in the black community. That vid clip is in no way definitive, just flavour.

PS, not sure the Latino or American Indian communities are relevant in the context of that word

Question, Do you realize that a large number of "black folks are a mixture of Latin and Native American Indian heritage?
As for your example, it's for lack of a better word in a very small minority of how offensive that word is acceptable to the people that it was intended to make them feel like the lowest of human kind. Just because a lot of extremely extraordinary ignorant entertainers say that word to themselves doesn't give Credence to continue an ill fated crusade to try to "perpetuate the use of that word"..Go back and Google Skip Bayless thoughts on it when he so brilliantly says that it's the worst word EVER . I hope this puts this to rest because it took a complete moron(MB) to bring this subject up. There's more important matters in this world that should be discussed.

 

[Federberg]

Question, Do you realize that a large number of "black folks are a mixture of Latin and Native American Indian heritage?
As for your example, it's for lack of a better word in a very small minority of how offensive that word is acceptable to the people that it was intended to make them feel like the lowest of human kind. Just because a lot of extremely extraordinary ignorant entertainers say that word to themselves doesn't give Credence to continue an ill fated crusade to try to "perpetuate the use of that word"..Go back and Google Skip Bayless thoughts on it when he so brilliantly says that it's the worst word EVER . I hope this puts this to rest because it took a complete moron(MB) to bring this subject up. There's more important matters in this world that should be discussed.

I'm not sure what the disconnect is here. And I don't know why you would think that the views of an old white guy like Skip Bayless have more credibility to black folk than Ice Cube. Nevertheless my point stands. I used the Ice Cube clip because it encapsulates the view point a lot of young black people bring up when asked why they use the word. By the way I thought it appropriate to use the words of a cultural icon because it's from that very segment of the community that the phenomenon most commonly occurs. I'm not making any judgement about whether they should I just tried to provide an explanation as to why they do

 

[Federberg]

When used between black people among themselves, not very. When a white person uses it against a black person, extremely offensive. Not sure what's so difficult to understand. I'm sure you'll say "but that's exactly my point, why is that the case?" but we both know why that's the case so I really don't know where you're going with this. I don't think for a second that you're trying to normalize the word, but I think you're asking a question to which the answer is very obvious. Context, history, intentions, etc... all matter a lot.

I'm so glad you've said this. I was wondering if I was swimming alone here

 

[brokenshoelace]

LMAO at using Skip Bayless as a reference for anything, let alone on one of the biggest social issues across history.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I'm not sure what the disconnect is here. And I don't know why you would think that the views of an old white guy like Skip Bayless have more credibility to black folk than Ice Cube. Nevertheless my point stands. I used the Ice Cube clip because it encapsulates the view point a lot of young black people bring up when asked why they use the word. By the way I thought it appropriate to use the words of a cultural icon because it's from that very segment of the community that the phenomenon most commonly occurs. I'm not making any judgement about whether they should I just tried to provide an explanation as to why they do

You completely missed my point..it doesn't matter what color Skip.Bsyless is he is correct..Again..why is it important for you to try to provide an explanation to a word to that has been the most decisive word EVER. Again you keep pushing the narrative about Icecube. He is just a person trying to make money. Why aren't you saying Barack and Michelle Obama, Oprah, Angela Rye or Dr Michael Eric Dyson..Yet you choose Ice Cube

 

[Federberg]

Sigh... this is pointless. I think your outrage at the word is clouding the issue. I’ve made my point. It’s not about right or wrong Murat asked a question I believe I gave him a good answer

 

[the AntiPusher]

Sigh... this is pointless. I think your outrage at the word is clouding the issue. I’ve made my point. It’s not about right or wrong Murat asked a question I believe I gave him a good answer

Murat's question was pointless. What did he say he was Turkish? Why would a Turkish old man wanted to ask a question like that? What was to be learned from it? Not a damn thing, IMO.

 

[Federberg]

Murat's question was pointless. What did he say he was Turkish? Why would a Turkish old man wanted to ask a question like that? What was to be learned from it? Not a damn thing, IMO.

is this an inter-sectionality thing? Why would the fact he is Turkish mean he doesn't have the right to ask a question? I might not understand why he found the concept difficult, but surely in a free thinking world he has the right to debate this...

 

[the AntiPusher]

is this an inter-sectionality thing? Why would the fact he is Turkish mean he doesn't have the right to ask a question? I might not understand why he found the concept difficult, but surely in a free thinking world he has the right to debate this...

Is it okay say Turk or Terk. I saw on YouTube that some young people Kurds use the term Turk or Terk..Murat.. please enlighten us on my question..

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Is it okay say Turk or Terk. I saw on YouTube that some young people Kurds use the term Turk or Terk..Murat.. please enlighten us on my question..

Never heard of it so I cannot enlighten you. Terk inTurkish would mean "leave behind" or something to that effect. So I have no idea if it is supposed to be bad or offend the Turks. Me, I will never be offended by words since they usually say more about the person saying those words than myself. Sticks and stones and all that...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

When used between black people among themselves, not very. When a white person uses it against a black person, extremely offensive. Not sure what's so difficult to understand. I'm sure you'll say "but that's exactly my point, why is that the case?" but we both know why that's the case so I really don't know where you're going with this. I don't think for a second that you're trying to normalize the word, but I think you're asking a question to which the answer is very obvious. Context, history, intentions, etc... all matter a lot.

Would you concede that among black people there isn't a consensus on this though? I mean, a sizeable number do not want the word to be used (guys like Larry Elder etc ), ever, even among themselves. Others see no problem using it freely, among themselves of course. Maybe it is a bit more complicated , this issue?
Here is an impossible situation that actually happened. Rapper Kendrick Lamar invites a person from the audience on stage to join him and sing a song. The person is a white lady. The song has the n word, multiple times. She starts singing it and KL tells her she has to bleep all those words out, the crowd starts booing...You are telling this person, and all your none black fans, you can listen to me, by my album, pay to come to my concert, but you cannot sing my songs the way I wrote them, or maybe only when you are alone in the shower or something.
And why invite this poor girl on the stage in the first place, knowing full well you will humiliate her in front of everyone?
I agree with you that context, history, intentions, all matter a lot, where I disagree is the issue is not that black and white to me. I am curious about these things with no other motive. I think there are legit questions to be asked without being labelled. I read the Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn to have a perspective about Lenin's Russia and forced labour camps (I am not a Marxists/Leninists) and I also read Mein Kampf to learn about Hitler ( I am nowhere near a fascist).
I would like to be able to discuss subject that are serious without being labelled something or the other ( I am not saying you are doing it). No serious subject will ever be discussed without risking to offend someone.

 

[Federberg]

^the divide is more generational than anything I believe. Younger black people seem ok generally using the n word amongst themselves. Never outside of the black community though, as the KL example you illustrated shows. In a way it's sort of like use of the 'b' word among women. Lord help you if you say it!

 

[tented]

I agree with you that context, history, intentions, all matter a lot, where I disagree is the issue is not that black and white to me. I am curious about these things with no other motive. I think there are legit questions to be asked without being labelled. I read the Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn to have a perspective about Lenin's Russia and forced labour camps (I am not a Marxists/Leninists) and I also read Mein Kampf to learn about Hitler ( I am nowhere near a fascist).
I would like to be able to discuss subject that are serious without being labelled something or the other ( I am not saying you are doing it). No serious subject will ever be discussed without risking to offend someone.

Perfect.

 

[tented]

^the divide is more generational than anything I believe. Younger black people seem ok generally using the n word amongst themselves. Never outside of the black community though, as the KL example you illustrated shows. In a way it's sort of like use of the 'b' word among women. Lord help you if you say it!

I wonder how long this will last? I get what they’re trying to do with reclaiming (I saw the Bill Maher/Sen. Sasse & Maher/Ice Cube shows live at the time), but I still think the smarter move would be for everyone to stop using it.

 

[Federberg]

I wonder how long this will last? I get what they’re trying to do with reclaiming (I saw the Bill Maher/Sen. Sasse & Maher/Ice Cube shows live at the time), but I still think the smarter move would be for everyone to stop using it.

I can understand the need to assert control after centuries of just "taking" it. I'm not sure passive would suit the emotional requirement

 

[tented]

I can understand the need to assert control after centuries of just "taking" it. I'm not sure passive would suit the emotional requirement

I hope they’re successful. It’s easily the most horrible, offensive word. When anyone uses it, I cringe. It’s like a knife to the ear. I can’t even imagine being called it.

I know this is not even close to the same thing, but years ago, when my hair was still black and I had a beard, I was in a bar, when a man approached me to ask if I wanted to have a drink with him. I politely said no since I was with others. He replied, “You fucking kike.” I told the bartender who threw him out and told him never to come back. Around the same period I was at a wedding, and someone said, “You look like a terrorist, with the dark hair and beard.” What the fuck?! What’s wrong with these people?

 

[Moxie]

^the divide is more generational than anything I believe. Younger black people seem ok generally using the n word amongst themselves. Never outside of the black community though, as the KL example you illustrated shows. In a way it's sort of like use of the 'b' word among women. Lord help you if you say it!

It's not "bitch," which is in common parlance, and can be used against men. It's the C-word that men can't use with women, just to be clear. And women can, though we use it very judiciously and when we really hate someone. (I think the way British men use it against each other is both acceptable and hilarious.) Not to digress, though. I thought the Ice Cube clip was perfectly apt and eloquent. ("We've taken it back, and you can't have it anymore.")

I get why Murat was asking, as he's a person that doesn't subscribe to PC, in general, and I get why Tented was asking why don't we all just leave off using them. Personally, I accept that people "reclaim" a slur, and have no problem with that, nor any problem with understanding that it doesn't mean I get to use it, myself, if I'm not a member of that group. Offensive words, specifically those used to denigrate people of a different race/ethnic/religious/gender group have power, and none more than the N-word. Obviously our relationship with them is complicated.

I do think this comes back to our discussions about political correctness, which is something that some here very much object to. How can a word be used freely by some, and prohibited by others? I don't have a problem with that reality. As I have said before, the notion of "political correctness" ever began as a way of making people rethink how they use language. I think that's a good thing. And I don't think any of us should have a problem identifying people in minority groups with words that they choose for themselves, not the ones we choose to impose on them.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

It's not "bitch," which is in common parlance, and can be used against men. It's the C-word that men can't use with women, just to be clear. And women can, though we use it very judiciously and when we really hate someone. (I think the way British men use it against each other is both acceptable and hilarious.) Not to digress, though. I thought the Ice Cube clip was perfectly apt and eloquent. ("We've taken it back, and you can't have it anymore.")

I get why Murat was asking, as he's a person that doesn't subscribe to PC, in general, and I get why Tented was asking why don't we all just leave off using them. Personally, I accept that people "reclaim" a slur, and have no problem with that, nor any problem with understanding that it doesn't mean I get to use it, myself, if I'm not a member of that group. Offensive words, specifically those used to denigrate people of a different race/ethnic/religious/gender group have power, and none more than the N-word. Obviously our relationship with them is complicated.

I do think this comes back to our discussions about political correctness, which is something that some here very much object to. How can a word be used freely by some, and prohibited by others? I don't have a problem with that reality. As I have said before, the notion of "political correctness" ever began as a way of making people rethink how they use language. I think that's a good thing. And I don't think any of us should have a problem identifying people in minority groups with words that they choose for themselves, not the ones we choose to impose on them.

Yeah, no one should ever utter the word "cilantro", not in my presence