Serious PC thread

Federberg

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I henceforth declare myself to be a unicorn, and hence forth anyone who refuses to acknowledge my unicorn-ness and apply the pronoun "horned-one" is being a unicorn-phobe….
 

mrzz

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I henceforth declare myself to be a unicorn, and hence forth anyone who refuses to acknowledge my unicorn-ness and apply the pronoun "horned-one" is being a unicorn-phobe….
upload_2019-7-25_12-10-38.jpeg


You are not allowed in my neighborhood.
 
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mrzz

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unicorn-phone...

Wow, you guys have even your own phones? Is there a hetero-phone as well? The ring tones are sounds of chainsaws, it self destructs if the owner wears pink, and if it senses that the owner turned his head, it keeps whispering to him "grab'er by the pussy, grab'er by the pussy..."
 

Federberg

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Wow, you guys have even your own phones? Is there a hetero-phone as well? The ring tones are sounds of chainsaws, it self destructs if the owner wears pink, and if it senses that the owner turned his head, it keeps whispering to him "grab'er by the pussy, grab'er by the pussy..."
(Edited!) I don't know what you're talking about! :lol6:
 

Moxie

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All I have to say Moxie to you is wow...You have not understood a single thing about the issue at hand and what is at stake and I have a feeling you will never get it. You have become one of those folks that are a slave to an ideology and you do not see anything beyond it. You are still at your "random penis being a threat" argument. You will never get it.
As for me , as a straight man (oh the good old identity politics from the far left) being aware of the plight of these folks...Well, I am an immigrant. I washed public transit busses in a -30 degree wind tunnel as my first job. I have empathy trust me. These women here lost their job and have been called names because a sick mind decided he is a woman. They have all my empathy. I would rather fight for them than the other dude, trust me.
I could say the same to you...we're really all talking across different points here. But the ball-waxing thing is an example of taking one very extreme thing and highlighting it as example of whatever it is that's got you worried. (With BB and Fed-berg, it's sexual predators in women's bathrooms, with you it's that the far left is forcing you to do things you don't want.) Broken and I have both said that sometimes what passes for PC-notions are really sometimes completely misguided and give PC a bad name. Still, we're all talking about different things. And Federberg is now a unicorn.
 

Federberg

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I could say the same to you...we're really all talking across different points here. But the ball-waxing thing is an example of taking one very extreme thing and highlighting it as example of whatever it is that's got you worried. (With BB and Fed-berg, it's sexual predators in women's bathrooms, with you it's that the far left is forcing you to do things you don't want.) Broken and I have both said that sometimes what passes for PC-notions are really sometimes completely misguided and give PC a bad name. Still, we're all talking about different things. And Federberg is now a unicorn.
yes it's all about our fears. Nothing to do with the sometimes ridiculous things we are told by progressives we should accept...
 

Murat Baslamisli

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I could say the same to you...we're really all talking across different points here. But the ball-waxing thing is an example of taking one very extreme thing and highlighting it as example of whatever it is that's got you worried. (With BB and Fed-berg, it's sexual predators in women's bathrooms, with you it's that the far left is forcing you to do things you don't want.) Broken and I have both said that sometimes what passes for PC-notions are really sometimes completely misguided and give PC a bad name. Still, we're all talking about different things. And Federberg is now a unicorn.

Moxie, I am beyond worried. What I am trying to get across to you is that these things are not theoretical events that can happen sometimes in the future. They are happening NOW. People are losing their jobs and being labelled something that they are not, NOW. How many real world examples do you need? Name your number. In Canada, Bill C16 has passed. First time in the history of British Common Law, speech is now compelled ! I HAVE to use certain words now in my speech. It is very different than banning the use of some words, mind you. This is telling me what words I have to use in my daily speech. Please tell me you understand how much of a slippery slope this is.
 

Federberg

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I know this is a serious thread but just got sent this....

upload_2019-7-26_21-18-58.png
 

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Murat Baslamisli

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Moxie

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Christ, I hope you're kidding. For one, you're citing Russia Times, which is a propaganda rag. Second point is that women in gaming is a long conversation, which I think you understand. You do know that the world is unwelcoming to girls and women. (And a big point is "girls," because gamers start young.) Your article degenerates into some serious gender stereotypes by the end. Would you really co-sign that?
 
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Moxie

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Feminists, and SJWs in general have a huge problem with the word "Competence". Like, how dare someone be better at something than someone else. Their whole aim is to equalize everyone at mediocrity.
Dude, you have a problem. You told me on a previous post how "worried" you are by the way things are going. Federberg tells me I should stop saying that you guys are afraid...but, as you have said, you actually are.

If you look at the Guardian citation imbedded in that article that talks about the issue, it's written by a man, and yet you're blaming feminists and "SJW's" out of hand. Why not consider that it's an issue worth discussing? Some other man does, and he writes for the Guardian. Also, anyone who uses the term "SJW" on the internet is in danger of pegging himself as a person of the far-right. If you haven't figured that out, you might google it and reconsider, if you really want to come off as a "moderate."
 
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mrzz

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Christ, I hope you're kidding. For one, you're citing Russia Times, which is a propaganda rag. Second point is that women in gaming is a long conversation, which I think you understand. You do know that the world is unwelcoming to girls and women. (And a big point is "girls," because gamers start young.) Your article degenerates into some serious gender stereotypes by the end. Would you really co-sign that?


I guess when you read the world "feminism" you read something very different from what most people today read. You (actually we) have lived the XXth century, have read about it, so feminism to you surely means all those just social struggles, those names of women who were brave and strong, and helped change the course of history. Sadly, however, the world spins and so do movements and meanings of words. Nowadays, when people write the word "feminism", they mostly don't really have a clue about what it meant 50 years ago. This article is about that feminism. You obviously know all that, but it is better to leave it clear anyway.

Having said that, you know that I think that ALL media outlets are propaganda rags. I follow a few of them, in different extremes, and I can safely, calmly say that RT is no more propaganda than any other media outlet, including, for example, BBC (to avoid quoting an American one). Take it as a compliment to RT, or an offense to the others... regarding RT at least is easier to identify the propaganda part and the selection bias (which is smaller than what you might think). And they publish their sources with higher frequency than most (as crazy as it sounds). But, this is an op-ed anyway. (and yes, I know which cords they are trying to play here).

I might not co-sign all the language the guy uses or every possible underlying idea, but it is obvious that he raises some flagrant uncoherences of extreme "modern social/mass media feminism". But I am "Freudian" to a big extent, so, yes, I do agree that men and women are fundamentally different.

The point is, if you start from the premise (that the world is unwelcoming to girls), you not only see evidence of it in every corner that you look, but you can also discredit any conflicting view as part of the problem (Federberg will probably recognize the Poperian argument here). So in that case it is better not to quote or refer to any statistic, any supposedly real fact, because just about everything will corroborate your premise. This approach is not a good one in a lot of ways, but ironically is particularly inefficient to recognize whichever underlying issues are actually behind of what you call an unwelcoming world.


P.S. (As you know I like to put everything in my own words, I would hardly co-sign anything).
 

Murat Baslamisli

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Dude, you have a problem. You told me on a previous post how "worried" you are by the way things are going. Federberg tells me I should stop saying that you guys are afraid...but, as you have said, you actually are.

If you look at the Guardian citation imbedded in that article that talks about the issue, it's written by a man, and yet you're blaming feminists and "SJW's" out of hand. Why not consider that it's an issue worth discussing? Some other man does, and he writes for the Guardian. Also, anyone who uses the term "SJW" on the internet is in danger of pegging himself as a person of the far-right. If you haven't figured that out, you might google it and reconsider, if you really want to come off as a "moderate."
I am worried. And you have no answer to the issues except calling names. In case you have not noticed (looks like you have not) there are a lot of feminist and SJWs that are men. They love to virtue signal. Our PM is one up here.
I hate the far right. See, you are an amazing example of what I am talking about, proof in flesh and blood. I use a term and bam, I am far right (which I despise). There is more labeling on the far left than a UPS store, and mostly unjustified. The term SJW is widely used now because the absurdity of it is finally being recognized by the moderates. If you want to keep labeling people, go ahead, no one cares really. The term itself is moronic to begin with, I agree. Because there is no such thing as social justice. There is only individual justice. You cannot be guilty or innocent depending on your social status , your race or your sex. If you get out of your collectivist bubble and understand the fact that we are all individuals, you could maybe better understand my points.
Back to the point at hand. I said feminists (the third wave I am talking about, not the first two which I am a believer in) and the SJWs hate the word competence. Prove me wrong. I have a million examples. I said the leftists want everyone to be equally miserable. Prove me wrong. Let's discuss.
 
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Moxie

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I guess when you read the world "feminism" you read something very different from what most people today read. You (actually we) have lived the XXth century, have read about it, so feminism to you surely means all those just social struggles, those names of women who were brave and strong, and helped change the course of history. Sadly, however, the world spins and so do movements and meanings of words. Nowadays, when people write the word "feminism", they mostly don't really have a clue about what it meant 50 years ago. This article is about that feminism. You obviously know all that, but it is better to leave it clear anyway.

Having said that, you know that I think that ALL media outlets are propaganda rags. I follow a few of them, in different extremes, and I can safely, calmly say that RT is no more propaganda than any other media outlet, including, for example, BBC (to avoid quoting an American one). Take it as a compliment to RT, or an offense to the others... regarding RT at least is easier to identify the propaganda part and the selection bias (which is smaller than what you might think). And they publish their sources with higher frequency than most (as crazy as it sounds). But, this is an op-ed anyway. (and yes, I know which cords they are trying to play here).

I might not co-sign all the language the guy uses or every possible underlying idea, but it is obvious that he raises some flagrant uncoherences of extreme "modern social/mass media feminism". But I am "Freudian" to a big extent, so, yes, I do agree that men and women are fundamentally different.

The point is, if you start from the premise (that the world is unwelcoming to girls), you not only see evidence of it in every corner that you look, but you can also discredit any conflicting view as part of the problem (Federberg will probably recognize the Poperian argument here). So in that case it is better not to quote or refer to any statistic, any supposedly real fact, because just about everything will corroborate your premise. This approach is not a good one in a lot of ways, but ironically is particularly inefficient to recognize whichever underlying issues are actually behind of what you call an unwelcoming world.


P.S. (As you know I like to put everything in my own words, I would hardly co-sign anything).

I'd really like to know who you'd say that the word "feminism" is defined in the 21st C. Seriously. I have an idea, but rather than guess, I'll let you tell me, as I don't know of another definition.
 

Moxie

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I am worried. And you have no answer to the issues except calling names. In case you have not noticed (looks like you have not) there are a lot of feminist and SJWs that are men. They love to virtue signal. Our PM is one up here.
I hate the far right. See, you are an amazing example of what I am talking about, proof in flesh and blood. I use a term and bam, I am far right (which I despise). There is more labeling on the far left than a UPS store, and mostly unjustified. The term SJW is widely used now because the absurdity of it is finally being recognized by the moderates. If you want to keep labeling people, go ahead, no one cares really. The term itself is moronic to begin with, I agree. Because there is no such thing as social justice. There is only individual justice. You cannot be guilty or innocent depending on your social status , your race or your sex. If you get out of your collectivist bubble and understand the fact that we are all individuals, you could maybe better understand my points.
Back to the point at hand. I said feminists (the third wave I am talking about, not the first two which I am a believer in) and the SJWs hate the word competence. Prove me wrong. I have a million examples. I said the leftists want everyone to be equally miserable. Prove me wrong. Let's discuss.
I really don't think I've been "calling names." Certainly you have been making sweeping generalities about liberals and feminists, and scooping me up in them, so at the very least you can admit you've done it, too. I never said you were far-right, but I said you risk sounding like one. While "social justice warrior" used to be a valid description of someone who took up the cause of civil rights and equal rights, it has taken on a pejorative meaning, and I'd say a lazy one. I honestly wish you could make some distinction between people that care earnestly about the rights and dignity of others, particularly those who have been at some historical disadvantage, and those extremists who flap on about fairly useless things that make you feel like your own rights are being infringed upon. There is a difference, I believe that strongly.

I'm not sure about this third wave of feminism that you and I guess Mrzz are talking about. I've already asked him to define it for me, as I really don't know what you mean. However, I do not believe that leftists or progressives want "everyone to be equally miserable." I also would say that I certainly believe in "competence" and achievement. This is a sports forum, after all. ;) However, I believe there is also room for discussion when the playing field is not level. Remember the old saw about being born on 3rd base and believing that you hit a triple? I hope that seems reasonable for discussion.
 

Federberg

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frankly I think both sides spend an awful lot of time labelling the other. Progressives love to apply "-ists" to those on the right. And those on the right love to use terms like "SJW". It's all very tiresome. From my observations of this current debate I see Murat describing progressives in general and Moxie occasionally appearing close to assigning identity labels or script narratives to specific individuals. Probably neither is an ideal tactic to advance the debate? If progress is the intent of course.

I will say this Moxie, your willingness to promote your "wokeness" without any self criticism is - at least from my observations from across the pond - a very big part of the problem in America at the moment. I respect your desire to empathise with minorities, but I think your cause would be more effectively prosecuted if you progressive folks could find a way to also empathise with majorities who are being asked to make cultural changes, often at breakneck speed. I think generally progressives have it right (not on calling someone with XY 'she' though :D), but the lack of political savoir faire sometimes is stunning to me. Just saying...
 
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