Rolex Paris Masters 2018, ATP 1000

[Ricardo]

The haters are truly scratchin'! It's too sad for words! :cuckoo: Seek serious .

A hater accusing other haters, how interesting!

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Bercy is such a different tourney. Actually, except for Novak (who defended it twice), not a single player has defended their title at Bercy in the entire history of the tourney.

 

[Moxie]

I realize that, britbox but I don't think it's band wagoning this time round. He seems much more consistent all round than Zverev to me. I just don't like Zverev in general. Mopey annoying prick if you ask me Reminds me of Murray tbh.

I'd say everything about it is "bandwagoning." And not liking Zverev, as you say. KK has 2 x 250 titles and now 1 x 1000s. Zverev has 4 x 1000s and whatever else. KK hasn't been consistent until really lately. Believe me, I do a lot of those draw challenges, and he's been very hard to predict. AZ hasn't yet got the results at Majors, but I think we have to give all of these kids some time for getting their legs under them. Zverev is still only 21, and has had to deal with a lot of exposure and some very high expectations. Nobody can ask you to like Sasha, but you can't say he's less consistent than Khachanov, at this point.

 

[Fiero425]

Bercy is such a different tourney. Actually, except for Novak (who defended it twice), not a single player has defended their title at Bercy in the entire history of the tourney.

I've said before that Paris Masters is just one of those tourneys that can't be predicted! Odd winners have come out of there for decades! Nole's the only one who's actually had the stamina and mental strength to do well year after year and as you said "defend this title" a couple times! Even Fed's come up short all but one time! Nadal shouldn't even bother putting it on his schedule! Between his weakening body at this time of the year and the speed of the court, it's a true waste of his time to even show up! :whistle:

 

[mrzz]

Come on. Nobody said of Federer in 2002, "hey, this dude is gonna win like... twenty slams." He was just another promising young dude of the day.

We have no clue how high any of these young guns can reach once they grab a major, which usually brings about a big shift in confidence. So even that one is nothing to be sure of.

Of course we cannot be absolutely sure of nothing. But the big three are historically out of the curve to begin with, and, honestly, their level as youngsters was simply higher than the current crop (specially Nadal and Djokovic). I like some of the young players, but my honest opinion is that we will hardly see another guy like them in ages.

 

[herios]

I'd say everything about it is "bandwagoning." And not liking Zverev, as you say. KK has 2 x 250 titles and now 1 x 1000s. Zverev has 4 x 1000s and whatever else. KK hasn't been consistent until really lately. Believe me, I do a lot of those draw challenges, and he's been very hard to predict. AZ hasn't yet got the results at Majors, but I think we have to give all of these kids some time for getting their legs under them. Zverev is still only 21, and has had to deal with a lot of exposure and some very high expectations. Nobody can ask you to like Sasha, but you can't say he's less consistent than Khachanov, at this point.

You counted one too few titles for khachanov, because he has 3*250 titles and one too many masters for Sasha, who has also 3 of them.
Point is, Sasha developed a pattern in results, for three years in row, his results are a lot better in the first half of the season than in the second half. My conclusion is that his best surface for him is clay and he tires by the second half. Also, his weakest surface are the fastest.
Karen has improved recently, this year. Until 2018, Zverev was far superior. Now, I am not sure anymore.
Next season will tell us how the dynamic between them plays out.

 

[Fiero425]

Of course we cannot be absolutely sure of nothing. But the big three are historically out of the curve to begin with, and, honestly, their level as youngsters was simply higher than the current crop (specially Nadal and Djokovic). I like some of the young players, but my honest opinion is that we will hardly see another guy like them in ages.

You can say that again! We thought it was amazing for Sampras to finally get his 14th Major! Little did we know that within a decade or so, 3 players would cruise by with little problem! On top of that they're all CGS winners when he never even played one FO final! He had his chance in the mid 90's, but after defeating 2 past Champs earlier in the tourney, Kafelnikov took him out in the SF in '96! Pete was plain and simply spent after three 5 setters on clay! It was his last real chance IMO! :whistle:

 

[Moxie]

You counted one too few titles for khachanov, because he has 3*250 titles and one too many masters for Sasha, who has also 3 of them.
Point is, Sasha developed a pattern in results, for three years in row, his results are a lot better in the first half of the season than in the second half. My conclusion is that his best surface for him is clay and he tires by the second half. Also, his weakest surface are the fastest.
Karen has improved recently, this year. Until 2018, Zverev was far superior. Now, I am not sure anymore.
Next season will tell us how the dynamic between them plays out.

Sorry...I didn't look up. Still, 9 titles for Zverev, 3 being MS, and 4 for KK, 3 being 250s. Sure, dynamics change. We have a lot to see from and learn about these young guys. That was my point.

 

[herios]

Of course we cannot be absolutely sure of nothing. But the big three are historically out of the curve to begin with, and, honestly, their level as youngsters was simply higher than the current crop (specially Nadal and Djokovic). I like some of the young players, but my honest opinion is that we will hardly see another guy like them in ages.

I agree. None of the current crop looks like someone who will be able to go up in double digit slam count.
They have not come even close to win a slam.
The lone SF to date of those born 1994 and after are the 2 SF at the AO, Chung and Edmund.

 

[Moxie]

Of course we cannot be absolutely sure of nothing. But the big three are historically out of the curve to begin with, and, honestly, their level as youngsters was simply higher than the current crop (specially Nadal and Djokovic). I like some of the young players, but my honest opinion is that we will hardly see another guy like them in ages.

This is an important point. People act like other players should be de-throwning Federer, Nadal and Djokovic at will, when this type of talent doesn't streak across the sky that often. I think there is an under-appreciation of the Big 3, when it comes to rating the youngsters, and an over-ambition for them, based on what is reasonable, given the climate.

 

[Moxie]

I agree. None of the current crop looks like someone who will be able to go up in double digit slam count.
They have not come even close to win a slam.
The lone SF to date of those born 1994 and after are the 2 SF at the AO, Chung and Edmund.

Wow, that's a good point, and *cough-cough* for uninspiring.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I'd say everything about it is "bandwagoning." And not liking Zverev, as you say. KK has 2 x 250 titles and now 1 x 1000s. Zverev has 4 x 1000s and whatever else. KK hasn't been consistent until really lately. Believe me, I do a lot of those draw challenges, and he's been very hard to predict. AZ hasn't yet got the results at Majors, but I think we have to give all of these kids some time for getting their legs under them. Zverev is still only 21, and has had to deal with a lot of exposure and some very high expectations. Nobody can ask you to like Sasha, but you can't say he's less consistent than Khachanov, at this point.

Sasha is definitely more consistent (actually even in majors where he consistently fails) than KK. But, KK is more interesting to watch. Sasha is boring to watch. As a result, I would root for folks like KK and Shapo than Sasha.

 

[Moxie]

Sasha is definitely more consistent (actually even in majors where he consistently fails) than KK. But, KK is more interesting to watch. Sasha is boring to watch. As a result, I would root for folks like KK and Shapo than Sasha.

"More interesting" is an opinion. I only found him compelling today, compared to big hitting without a POV before. Same with Shapo, who I still find a ball-basher, however fun to watch. I'm rooting for all 3 to be really good players, but I don't find Sasha boring, just because he's more mature.

 

[Moxie]

I've said before that Paris Masters is just one of those tourneys that can't be predicted! Odd winners have come out of there for decades! Nole's the only one who's actually had the stamina and mental strength to do well year after year and as you said "defend this title" a couple times! Even Fed's come up short all but one time! Nadal shouldn't even bother putting it on his schedule! Between his weakening body at this time of the year and the speed of the court, it's a true waste of his time to even show up! :whistle:

There is a reason that Bercy would like to move. Too many players bail at the end of the year. And yes, Fed and Novak do well at the end of the year, which is partly why Rafa does poorly. Same reason Roger and Novak haven't had as much success in the clay season. Great players playing in the same era. But time waits for no man, and Roger is less imposing in the indoor part of the year, and so will Novak be. He ran out of gas today. He won't keep owning the late part of the year forever, either.

 

[britbox]

Highlights

Khachanov d. Djokovic 7/5 6/4

 

[britbox]

KK's year - From Milan to Paris.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

kk wins 1st masters. good news for the tour. someone under 84yrs old winning a big title for a change.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

kk wins 1st masters. good news for the tour. someone under 84yrs old winning a big title for a change.

But, KK appears to be too old to play in MIlan where they give an Italian Model for the winner.

 

[Fiero425]

But, KK appears to be too old to play in MIlan where they give an Italian Model for the winner.

I remember he played last year, but only won 1 match so he was out after the RR! That'll change in the YEC; probably by next year!

 

[Front242]

"More interesting" is an opinion. I only found him compelling today, compared to big hitting without a POV before. Same with Shapo, who I still find a ball-basher, however fun to watch. I'm rooting for all 3 to be really good players, but I don't find Sasha boring, just because he's more mature.

Actually, I'd say it's the complete opposite and that he's very immature with his behaviour. Smashing racquets, shouting like a clown and whining at his box like like Murray when things aen't going his way. Not a whole lot to like for many people, plus he's a 1 dimensional ball basher with absolutely zero plan B and hence why he's been losing with scorelines of 6-1 6-2 a lot.