Roland Garros Day 9: Monday, June 2 - Order of Play

[TennisFanatic7]

I don't have a problem with him not being on Chatrier so far. He shares a half with Nadal, Ferrer, Stan, Monfils and Gasquet and they only have two mens' matches on Chatrier each day.

 

[tented]

^ Not really, he is low ranked now after all (not that it will last mind you) and has done nothing on clay his entire career.

Until he took time off for surgery, Murray was a steady presence in the top 4 for years. He's won two Majors. He's the reigning Wimbledon champion. Reigning Olympic gold medalist. Put him on Chatrier.

 

[Kirijax]

Woke up this morning and dreading the scores but then very pleasantly surprised that Murray got through Verdasco in straight sets. So let's see....Ferrererer knocks out Nadal, Murray takes out Monfils and Fererrrer, while Raonic shocks Djokovic but loses to Berdych so set up a French Open win for Murray. Yeah, that's it. Good plan.

 

[Riotbeard]

Woke up this morning and dreading the scores but then very pleasantly surprised that Murray got through Verdasco in straight sets. So let's see....Ferrererer knocks out Nadal, Murray takes out Monfils and Fererrrer, while Raonic shocks Djokovic but loses to Berdych so set up a French Open win for Murray. Yeah, that's it. Good plan.

So you're saying, Murray is such a good clay courter that he needs the best players in the world to get upset to have a prayer.

Even if Nadal and Novak got knocked, Andy would have to do two things he has never done before, beat Ferrer and Berdych on clay.

 

[Kirijax]

Woke up this morning and dreading the scores but then very pleasantly surprised that Murray got through Verdasco in straight sets. So let's see....Ferrererer knocks out Nadal, Murray takes out Monfils and Fererrrer, while Raonic shocks Djokovic but loses to Berdych so set up a French Open win for Murray. Yeah, that's it. Good plan.

So you're saying, Murray is such a good clay courter that he needs the best players in the world to get upset to have a prayer.

Even if Nadal and Novak got knocked, Andy would have to do two things he has never done before, beat Ferrer and Berdych on clay.

Yeah basically. My faith in Murray's abilities on clay court needs to be strengthened. But I would rather he play Ferrer and Berdych than Nadal and Djokovic any day of the week.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ Not really, he is low ranked now after all (not that it will last mind you) and has done nothing on clay his entire career.

While Andy is by no means an incompetent on clay, he is really a different tier from other top guys when it comes to clay. I am not sure how beating verdasco, and surviving a 6 setter against Kohlschreiber vindicates his clay court prowess. I don't think any body argues Andy isn't at least top 20 on the surface, and definitely a mentally strong player on any surface.

How many top guys have had consistently better results than Murray at Roland Garros (emphasis on consistently)? Nadal, Djokovic, Federer and Ferrer. That's just 4. Not too bad if you ask me. I don't think Andy is a world beater on clay either, but "at least top 20" is really selling him short. Can you name 10 guys with better results?

 

[DarthFed]

^ Add Monfils to that list. He made the semis once and has more qf's. Big Berd is probably on par if not better and also beat Murray one of the years.

Even if you can't name 10 players with better results...can you name 10 good clay court players period?

Edit: I looked it up and Murray has better results than Berd and is about on par with Monfils with 1 semi and 3 QF's each (including 2014). Whoever wins Wednesday gets the all important bragging rights of being better at RG than the other one.

 

[Riotbeard]

^ Not really, he is low ranked now after all (not that it will last mind you) and has done nothing on clay his entire career.

While Andy is by no means an incompetent on clay, he is really a different tier from other top guys when it comes to clay. I am not sure how beating verdasco, and surviving a 6 setter against Kohlschreiber vindicates his clay court prowess. I don't think any body argues Andy isn't at least top 20 on the surface, and definitely a mentally strong player on any surface.

How many top guys have had consistently better results than Murray at Roland Garros (emphasis on consistently)? Nadal, Djokovic, Federer and Ferrer. That's just 4. Not too bad if you ask me. I don't think Andy is a world beater on clay either, but "at least top 20" is really selling him short. Can you name 10 guys with better results?

He might be top 10. I would agree he is up there in terms of consistency, part of that is due to his high ranking which means he does not face high-ish level opposition until round 4, which that and quarterfinals, is his consistent results. He has never beaten a top 10 player at RG. Delpo has only been able to play 3 of the last 5 year, but he made quarters and semis and 3rd rd. Berdy has made the sf and the final of a masters and has won two titles on clay. Berdy also straight setted Andy at RG 2010 (He has beaten Andy 3 times on clay, and has 8 total top 10 wins on the surface). Stan has won a masters on clay so I would definitely rank him above Andy, probably right behind Ferrer. So that has Andy ranked 8, but let's keep looking... If we included this tournament, Monfils has made the quarters or better in 4 out of the last 6 RG's he played, so I would say he has shown nearly as much consistency at RG (which isn't the only measurement of clay court prowess). Since 2009 Tsonga has only exited RG before the 4th round once. He also has more top 10 wins on clay than Andy. Maybe it's a wash on who to rank higher between them. Nicolas Almagro has made the quarter finals 3 times, and has 14 top 10 wins on clay compared to Andy's one. I only looked up two other players who didn't work for this gasquet and simon, but both had more top 10 wins than Andy.


Having been seeded in the top 4, it's not that hard to make it to the round of 16 or even the quarters now 3 times plus the semis once. The draw was split wide when he made the semis. I think it's at least debatable whether Andy is a top 10 clay courter, and exists in a tier of players with similarly good but unimpressive results on clay.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ Not really, he is low ranked now after all (not that it will last mind you) and has done nothing on clay his entire career.

While Andy is by no means an incompetent on clay, he is really a different tier from other top guys when it comes to clay. I am not sure how beating verdasco, and surviving a 6 setter against Kohlschreiber vindicates his clay court prowess. I don't think any body argues Andy isn't at least top 20 on the surface, and definitely a mentally strong player on any surface.

How many top guys have had consistently better results than Murray at Roland Garros (emphasis on consistently)? Nadal, Djokovic, Federer and Ferrer. That's just 4. Not too bad if you ask me. I don't think Andy is a world beater on clay either, but "at least top 20" is really selling him short. Can you name 10 guys with better results?

He might be top 10. I would agree he is up there in terms of consistency, part of that is due to his high ranking which means he does not face high-ish level opposition until round 4, which that and quarterfinals, is his consistent results. He has never beaten a top 10 player at RG. Delpo has only been able to play 3 of the last 5 year, but he made quarters and semis and 3rd rd. Berdy has made the sf and the final of a masters and has won two titles on clay. Berdy also straight setted Andy at RG 2010 (He has beaten Andy 3 times on clay, and has 8 total top 10 wins on the surface). Stan has won a masters on clay so I would definitely rank him above Andy, probably right behind Ferrer. So that has Andy ranked 8, but let's keep looking... If we included this tournament, Monfils has made the quarters or better in 4 out of the last 6 RG's he played, so I would say he has shown nearly as much consistency at RG (which isn't the only measurement of clay court prowess). Since 2009 Tsonga has only exited RG before the 4th round once. He also has more top 10 wins on clay than Andy. Maybe it's a wash on who to rank higher between them. Nicolas Almagro has made the quarter finals 3 times, and has 14 top 10 wins on clay compared to Andy's one. I only looked up two other players who didn't work for this gasquet and simon, but both had more top 10 wins than Andy.


Having been seeded in the top 4, it's not that hard to make it to the round of 16 or even the quarters now 3 times plus the semis once. The draw was split wide when he made the semis. I think it's at least debatable whether Andy is a top 10 clay courter, and exists in a tier of players with similarly good but unimpressive results on clay.

Murray was seeded 7th for this tournament.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Woke up this morning and dreading the scores but then very pleasantly surprised that Murray got through Verdasco in straight sets. So let's see....Ferrererer knocks out Nadal, Murray takes out Monfils and Fererrrer, while Raonic shocks Djokovic but loses to Berdych so set up a French Open win for Murray. Yeah, that's it. Good plan.

That scenario you came up with tells me you were not quite awake yet brother ...

 

[Riotbeard]

^ Not really, he is low ranked now after all (not that it will last mind you) and has done nothing on clay his entire career.

While Andy is by no means an incompetent on clay, he is really a different tier from other top guys when it comes to clay. I am not sure how beating verdasco, and surviving a 6 setter against Kohlschreiber vindicates his clay court prowess. I don't think any body argues Andy isn't at least top 20 on the surface, and definitely a mentally strong player on any surface.

How many top guys have had consistently better results than Murray at Roland Garros (emphasis on consistently)? Nadal, Djokovic, Federer and Ferrer. That's just 4. Not too bad if you ask me. I don't think Andy is a world beater on clay either, but "at least top 20" is really selling him short. Can you name 10 guys with better results?

He might be top 10. I would agree he is up there in terms of consistency, part of that is due to his high ranking which means he does not face high-ish level opposition until round 4, which that and quarterfinals, is his consistent results. He has never beaten a top 10 player at RG. Delpo has only been able to play 3 of the last 5 year, but he made quarters and semis and 3rd rd. Berdy has made the sf and the final of a masters and has won two titles on clay. Berdy also straight setted Andy at RG 2010 (He has beaten Andy 3 times on clay, and has 8 total top 10 wins on the surface). Stan has won a masters on clay so I would definitely rank him above Andy, probably right behind Ferrer. So that has Andy ranked 8, but let's keep looking... If we included this tournament, Monfils has made the quarters or better in 4 out of the last 6 RG's he played, so I would say he has shown nearly as much consistency at RG (which isn't the only measurement of clay court prowess). Since 2009 Tsonga has only exited RG before the 4th round once. He also has more top 10 wins on clay than Andy. Maybe it's a wash on who to rank higher between them. Nicolas Almagro has made the quarter finals 3 times, and has 14 top 10 wins on clay compared to Andy's one. I only looked up two other players who didn't work for this gasquet and simon, but both had more top 10 wins than Andy.


Having been seeded in the top 4, it's not that hard to make it to the round of 16 or even the quarters now 3 times plus the semis once. The draw was split wide when he made the semis. I think it's at least debatable whether Andy is a top 10 clay courter, and exists in a tier of players with similarly good but unimpressive results on clay.

Murray was seeded 7th for this tournament.

True, but most of the argument holds in terms of who he has to play in the first four rounds, and because the draw opened up (not his fault), it's no more difficult than if he had been seeded 4.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

Like somebody else mentioned, only four guys have done significantly/consistently better than Murray at Roland Garros in recent years. People exaggerate how bad he is on clay because he has noticeably worse results than on grass or hard but when it comes to five set matches and going deep in slams, the mental and physical side count for a lot more than the surface preference so Andy will always rise to near the top.

The argument about being helped by seeding, while true, can also be applied to any other player though. Murray earns his high ranking at Roland Garros each year by playing consistently well on all surfaces throughout the year, including one of four slams on clay and three of the nine Masters 1000 events.

In terms of likelihood to go deep at Roland Garros, I'd have him in or just outside the top 5. If you're talking about how many players he would be favourite to beat on clay though, that's a different matter. There's probably at least 8 players who would have more than a half chance of beating Murray in a one off match on the dirt. That list shrinks though when it comes to the high pressure situation of hypothetical grand slam finals/semi-finals.

And if he could consistently deliver the kind of performance he showed for the majority of today's match with Verdasco, slightly improve his break point conversion, there's only a handful who could beat him even on this surface. Sadly, though, he's never quite figured that part out.

 

[Iona16]

Like somebody else mentioned, only four guys have done significantly/consistently better than Murray at Roland Garros in recent years. People exaggerate how bad he is on clay because he has noticeably worse results than on grass or hard but when it comes to five set matches and going deep in slams, the mental and physical side count for a lot more than the surface preference so Andy will always rise to near the top.

The argument about being helped by seeding, while true, can also be applied to any other player though. Murray earns his high ranking at Roland Garros each year by playing consistently well on all surfaces throughout the year, including one of four slams on clay and three of the nine Masters 1000 events.

In terms of likelihood to go deep at Roland Garros, I'd have him in or just outside the top 5. If you're talking about how many players he would be favourite to beat on clay though, that's a different matter. There's probably at least 8 players who would have more than a half chance of beating Murray in a one off match on the dirt. That list shrinks though when it comes to the high pressure situation of hypothetical grand slam finals/semi-finals.

And if he could consistently deliver the kind of performance he showed for the majority of today's match with Verdasco, slightly improve his break point conversion, there's only a handful who could beat him even on this surface. Sadly, though, he's never quite figured that part out.

I'm liking you more and more TF7. It's great to have another Andy fan on here.

 

[Moxie]

^ Add Monfils to that list. He made the semis once and has more qf's. Big Berd is probably on par if not better and also beat Murray one of the years.

Even if you can't name 10 players with better results...can you name 10 good clay court players period?

Edit: I looked it up and Murray has better results than Berd and is about on par with Monfils with 1 semi and 3 QF's each (including 2014). Whoever wins Wednesday gets the all important bragging rights of being better at RG than the other one.

Surely one could name 10 good clay court players. But that's not the point. This is a Slam, and it favors the better player, without specifics of surface. Andy Murray is a consistently better player than almost everyone.

Clearly, today, Andy and Gael had given themselves a stern talking to after their last matches. Both tightened things up. Andy was MUCH better. As was Monfils, but I think also GGL was a bit gassed from the effort, and maybe a bit undone by the moment.

 

[Iona16]

^ Add Monfils to that list. He made the semis once and has more qf's. Big Berd is probably on par if not better and also beat Murray one of the years.

Even if you can't name 10 players with better results...can you name 10 good clay court players period?

Edit: I looked it up and Murray has better results than Berd and is about on par with Monfils with 1 semi and 3 QF's each (including 2014). Whoever wins Wednesday gets the all important bragging rights of being better at RG than the other one.

Surely one could name 10 good clay court players. But that's not the point. This is a Slam, and it favors the better player, without specifics of surface. Andy Murray is a consistently better player than almost everyone.

Clearly, today, Andy and Gael had given themselves a stern talking to after their last matches. Both tightened things up. Andy was MUCH better. As was Monfils, but I think also GGL was a bit gassed from the effort, and maybe a bit undone by the moment.

Always the voice of reason Moxie.

 

[TennisFanatic7]

I thought Murray played really well today, enjoyed seeing him play more aggressively and he even served consistently quite well in sets 2 and 3!

Honestly, I think he's got back to the point now where he's able to find his best tennis again. What's holding him back is the return of his pre-Lendl problems, losing focus in matches like the fourth set with Kohlschreiber and being mentally a bit more vulnerable all round. It happened again in the third set against Verdasco, he was getting all the break points and even though he missed them, thought that the match was pretty much over, ended up getting broken and being forced to a tie break.

It's important that he appoints a coach who he gets on with but respects a lot, like Ivan. Somebody who he really wants to impress and someone who isn't afraid to tell him exactly what they think of his going mental walkabouts at important times in matches.

The roar at the end of the Kohlschreiber win and his (mostly) clinical performance against Verdasco have gone some way to dispelling my fears regarding his hunger, too.