Roland Garros 2017, Paris, France, ATP GRAND SLAM

Carol

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The Djokovic/Thiem quarter is more interesting. Of course, both of them are second-tier contenders for the title behind Nadal.

Their projected paths to the QF are as follows:

Djokovic
R1 - Granollers
R2 - Sousa / Tipsarevic
R3 - M. Zverev (32)
R4 - Pouille (16) or Ramos Vinolas (19)

Much like Nadal, the first two rounds are not the easiest opponents Djokovic could have faced, but he will come through them without much trouble. Misha Zverev has had a good week last week and is obviously in form. With Novak's recent form, he could cause him trouble ... but I doubt it. Even if he does, taking into account his heroics in Geneva, I don't think he'll have what it takes to beat Djokovic over best-of-5.

So fairly plain sailing for Novak through to the quarters, but we'll be able to judge where his game is from whether he comes through easily or expends unnecessary energy.

Thiem
R1 - Tomic
R2 - Bolelli/Mahut
R3 - Johnson (25) [or Coric?]
R4 - Goffin [10] / Karlovic [23]

Can't expect Tomic to do too much, though Mahut's experience could make things tricky in R2 in front of the home crowd. R4 against Goffin is the tough one.

Thiem has been the second-best player in the clay-court season this year, and he has experience of going deep at RG. I expect him to reach the QF after a big fight against Goffin. If he faces Djokovic there, I'd expect him to go down easily to Novak, as he seems to have a match-up problem.
The Djokovic/Thiem quarter is more interesting. Of course, both of them are second-tier contenders for the title behind Nadal.

Their projected paths to the QF are as follows:

Djokovic
R1 - Granollers
R2 - Sousa / Tipsarevic
R3 - M. Zverev (32)
R4 - Pouille (16) or Ramos Vinolas (19)

Much like Nadal, the first two rounds are not the easiest opponents Djokovic could have faced, but he will come through them without much trouble. Misha Zverev has had a good week last week and is obviously in form. With Novak's recent form, he could cause him trouble ... but I doubt it. Even if he does, taking into account his heroics in Geneva, I don't think he'll have what it takes to beat Djokovic over best-of-5.

So fairly plain sailing for Novak through to the quarters, but we'll be able to judge where his game is from whether he comes through easily or expends unnecessary energy.

Thiem
R1 - Tomic
R2 - Bolelli/Mahut
R3 - Johnson (25) [or Coric?]
R4 - Goffin [10] / Karlovic [23]

Can't expect Tomic to do too much, though Mahut's experience could make things tricky in R2 in front of the home crowd. R4 against Goffin is the tough one.

Thiem has been the second-best player in the clay-court season this year, and he has experience of going deep at RG. I expect him to reach the QF after a big fight against Goffin. If he faces Djokovic there, I'd expect him to go down easily to Novak, as he seems to have a match-up problem.

I don't see Navak has a hard way, Granollers is playing bad , Sousa or Tipsaveric not better, old Zverev who today had to call the trainer during the match? and Pouille or Vinolas....I think Thiem has tougher opponents than him[/QUOTE]
 

mightyjeditribble

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I don't see Navak has a hard way, Granollers is playing bad , Sousa or Tipsaveric not better, old Zverev who today had to call the trainer during the match? and Pouille or Vinolas....I think Thiem has tougher opponents than him

I don't think I said anything different. :)
 

mightyjeditribble

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Nole's draw is as expected. Rafa in his half, Thiem or Goffin in his quarter. The only surprise was that they handpicked the other Zverev to Nole's quarter. No wonder Nole rejected Nike 3 times. ;-)

Conspiracy theories again? :wacko:

Admittedly, Thiem is the hardest of the potential QF opponents, but Thiem in Djokovic's quarter is much worse for Thiem than for Nole. And if he wants to win the title, he was always likely to have to beat Nadal at one point or other ...

There was a 1-in-8 chance of this configuration happening. It is hardly an earth-shattering coincidence.

We all think our favourites get tough draws more often than others, because we are not objective and worry more about them. But your conspiracy theories are just a little bit :wacko::wacko::wacko:
 

Mastoor

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Conspiracy theories again? :wacko:

Admittedly, Thiem is the hardest of the potential QF opponents, but Thiem in Djokovic's quarter is much worse for Thiem than for Nole. And if he wants to win the title, he was always likely to have to beat Nadal at one point or other ...

There was a 1-in-8 chance of this configuration happening. It is hardly an earth-shattering coincidence.

We all think our favourites get tough draws more often than others, because we are not objective and worry more about them. But your conspiracy theories are just a little bit :wacko::wacko::wacko:


It is conspiracy practice actually, since common opinion is that Nole and Rafa are way too often in the same half at RG and the chance for that to happen they calculated to be 0.22%, which is around 1 in 500.
 

mightyjeditribble

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It is conspiracy practice actually, since common opinion is that Nole and Rafa are way too often in the same half at RG and the chance for that to happen they calculated to be 0.22%, which is around 1 in 500.

I don't think you understand statistics.
 

mightyjeditribble

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I don't think you understand statistics.

Just to humour you, in case you can be persuaded by a rational argument. You do not give any reasoning / working out, so it is hard to unpick. But the thing is that

a) People tend to think that random events will occur equally, but they do not. That is, if you throw a coin a large number of times, it is quite likely that you will have either a lot more heads or a lot more tails (though when divided by the number of throws, this number will tend to 1/2).

b) When doing statistical tests, there is a danger of cherry-picking results and hence finding something that looks significant, but isn't. This is the fallacy that leads to people finding "codes" in the bible etc. For example, you are picking out the French Open. But the likelihood at finding "patterns" at one of the four grand slams is higher, for the reason above.

c) Similarly as in b), you can affect your "analysis" by cherry-picking the range of years to give you the result that best fits your theory. Similarly, you are picking Djokovic and Nadal, but if you look hard enough, you will always find two players that are in the same half more often than you might expect. In some sense, this is the same phenomenon as the following: The chance of any particular person winning the lottery is very small. But the chance of somebody winning the lottery is much higher.

Okay, let's look at the numbers. Here is where Novak and Rafa were over the years, since 2007, which is about the time Novak became a contender:

2007 - same half
2008 - same half
2009 - different halves
2010 - same half
2011 - ranked 1&2
2012 - ranked 1&2
2013 - same half
2014 - ranked 1&2
2015 - same half
2016 - same half
2017 - same half

Out of 8 times that they could have been in different halves, this has only happend once. Of course, it doesn't happen that often that you throw a coin 8 times, and receive head at most once. What is the probability? Well, each sequence of heads/tails has probability 1/2^8 = 1/256, and there are 9 sequences that lead to at most one head. Hence the total probability is
9/256, which is roughly 3.5%. This is already larger by an order of magnitude than your claimed figure. Of course, it is still not a particularly high probability.

But what is the probability of an 3.5% likely event happening at one out of the four Grand Slams over these years? You should take the reciprocal probability, 247/256, raise it to the fourth-power, and then subtract the result from 1. I get a probability of 13% that this kind of imbalance would occur at one of the four slams for these two particular players. That's a bit less than a 1 in 7 chance. Hardly something to make a conspiracy out of.

And now consider what the chance is that you can find this kind of imbalance between some pair of top players over some ten-year period in the history of the rankings, and you should see that, really, the "pattern" you see is quite likely to be due to chance.

Of course, this is a very amateurish "analysis", I have used only very coarse data, haven't used any statistical significance tests etc ... which would only be likely to paint a more convincing picture.
 

Moxie

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Rafa seems to have a very straightforward way through to the semis:

According to seedings:

R1 - Paire
R2 - Haase or de Minaur
R3 - Simon (31)
R4 - Sock (14) / Bautista Agut (17)
QF - Raonic (5) / Dimitrov (11).

In R1 & R2 he doesn't have the easiest opponents he could have faced, but it's not as though they will pose a threat to him. There is no one I see in his quarter who has any chance to upset him; RBA could be the most dangerous clay-court player in the quarter, but he has no way of hurting Nadal.

Of course, the winner of the projected QF Djokovic v Thiem is likely to be a sterner test in the SF.
Paire is tough place to start, because you don't know which one will show up, and because he's French. I think he'll get Sock in R4, and that should be hard work. The SF is probably where the stern test comes. If it's Thiem, I think it's a fight he'll win. If it's Novak, that will likely mean that Djokovic is playing well and building confidence, and that could be a "de facto final."
 

Moxie

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The Djokovic/Thiem quarter is more interesting. Of course, both of them are second-tier contenders for the title behind Nadal.

Their projected paths to the QF are as follows:

Djokovic
R1 - Granollers
R2 - Sousa / Tipsarevic
R3 - M. Zverev (32)
R4 - Pouille (16) or Ramos Vinolas (19)

Much like Nadal, the first two rounds are not the easiest opponents Djokovic could have faced, but he will come through them without much trouble. Misha Zverev has had a good week last week and is obviously in form. With Novak's recent form, he could cause him trouble ... but I doubt it. Even if he does, taking into account his heroics in Geneva, I don't think he'll have what it takes to beat Djokovic over best-of-5.

So fairly plain sailing for Novak through to the quarters, but we'll be able to judge where his game is from whether he comes through easily or expends unnecessary energy.

Thiem
R1 - Tomic
R2 - Bolelli/Mahut
R3 - Johnson (25) [or Coric?]
R4 - Goffin [10] / Karlovic [23]

Can't expect Tomic to do too much, though Mahut's experience could make things tricky in R2 in front of the home crowd. R4 against Goffin is the tough one.

Thiem has been the second-best player in the clay-court season this year, and he has experience of going deep at RG. I expect him to reach the QF after a big fight against Goffin. If he faces Djokovic there, I'd expect him to go down easily to Novak, as he seems to have a match-up problem.
I agree with much of this. A question mark is how consistently Novak plays well and builds confidence. Also, should he meet Thiem in the QFs, I'd wonder if things don't go rather differently. Dominic has had real problems with Djokovic, but he's on the upswing, and Novak is streaky atm.
 

Moxie

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Stan Wawrinka's quarter

R1 - Kovalik
R2 - Dolgpolov / Berlocq
R3 - Fognini (28)
R4 - Monfils (15) / Gasquet (24)
QF - Tsonga (12 ) / Kyrgios (18) / Ferrer (30) / Cilic (7)

It's a dangerous thing to predict anything about Stan, but surely even he could not contrive to lose in the first two rounds here. The next three matches will tell us a lot about whether we have a Stanimal on our hands. Fognini is always tricky. Monfils and Gasquet can be dangerous, although the pressure of playing in front of the home crowd can get too much for both of them, I think. Wawrinka hasn't played Monfils since 2011 (h2h is 2-2). He actually has a losing record against Gasquet (1-2), but I don't really expect Richard to make R4 after his results on clay this year.

The other side of Wawrinka's quarter is pretty open. I think Tsonga is most likely to make it through, and he will be another test in the QF.

If Wawrinka makes it through to the SF again, it will take something special to stop him.
One thing I'll say about Fognini at the moment is that, with the new baby and all, I think he feels like he's playing with house money, which makes him very dangerous. I chickened out and picked Stan to get through that one, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's a speed bump that stops Stan.
 

mightyjeditribble

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Moxie

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I'm no good at this - but have filled out the bracket, just for you. Picked Wawrinka to win it, to be different, but I don't believe that will happen ...
What more can I ask for? :)
 

britbox

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This is today's order of play by the way, a few men's matches underway. Grigor is a set up already.

XjhtzMS.png
 

mightyjeditribble

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I foolishly thought that de Minaur could cause a little bit of an upset against Haase. Early days, but Haase is well in control at 4-2 in the first set.
 

mightyjeditribble

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Robredo up two sets to one and a break against Evans; looks like he may be making a winning return to GS tennis.
 

mightyjeditribble

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Pouille and Benneteau locked at one set each, with Benneteau up an early break in the third. Could this one go the distance, or will Benneteau fade as the match goes on?