Rogers Cup 2018, Toronto, Canada, ATP Masters

[Chris Koziarz]

I appreciate your respect for my gender, Chris but I don't fully agree that women on the whole are more emotionally intelligent than men. E.g. 3 of the best books in the bookshops about emotions were written by men. 2 of the books I am going to mention were written by the same man though. Those books are emotional intelligence by Daniel Goleman, destructive emotions & how to deal with them also by Daniel Goleman & authentic happiness by Martin Seligman. There were a lot of male poets & a lot of poetry deals with & expresses emotions. I'd also say that creative people as a whole tend to understand the emotions of themselves & others better which in a way can be a bad thing as it makes them more prone to emotional difficulties. Famous creative people who suffered from emotional difficulties are Charlotte Bronte & Charles Dickens.

I stand corrected, Horsa, there is no point discriminating based on gender here. Thanks for your examples. That only strengthen my response to Nad goat pointing that he is completely wrong (and dangerously politically incorrect) by saying that I sound "like a woman" while clearly knowing I'm a man.

 

[monfed]

Nadal didn´t care the draw because first at all he finished winning Toronto playing much better than the previous matches, with more confidence and winning the guy who had beaten 4 top players, second he didn´t have the joke draw like Federer has but he anyway probably would have played pretty well but for the first time he is taking care with his body and the schedule and wants to finish the year in much better conditions than the previous years. And third he is skipping only one HC tournament and NOT ALL THE CLAY SEASON like Federer did so if someone is a coward then POINT to this last one, idiot!

Fed can skip whatever he wants to, he has earned the right to at 37 YO. dull will not be able to even walk at that age, you cultist.

 

[Moxie]

Fed can skip whatever he wants to, he has earned the right to at 37 YO. dull will not be able to even walk at that age, you cultist.

Actually, Nadal has earned the right to skip, too. It’s wise to skip this one. Obviously u HOPE Rafa won’t be able to walk at 37, otherwise Fed’s records are in real peril.

 

[Carol]

Fed can skip whatever he wants to, he has earned the right to at 37 YO. dull will not be able to even walk at that age, you cultist.

I don't think Nadal will play at 37 and I hope he will not but not because he will not be able to walk, he will and very well but because it's an age to take care other business like his great Academy instead to skip a whole season and going down the hill or how long do you think your idol is going to last?. I can't understand why you are still around here, you are a disgusting troll, pathetic, bad loser, you should have been banned a long time ego but maybe because you are a Federer fanatic they allow you to show here talking so much garbage? that's sad because it makes me think this is a federist blog

 

[Moxie]

This is not a “blog”, it’s a “forum.” There’s a difference.

 

[Carol]

This is not a “blog”, it’s a “forum.” There’s a difference.

What’s the difference?

 

[Moxie]

What’s the difference?

A blog is where one person give their opinions in long essays. Which others may or may not comment upon. A forum is open conversation , which this is.

 

[Moxie]

Exactly. I was about to post about the same point. In today's match alone on more than three occasions I noticed that Rafa makes contact with the ball after a clear 4 to 6 seconds. I am sure the actual number of such occurrences is much larger as I am only counting the occasions that I can be sure of (they don't always show the clock on TV before each serve). Now, this is ridiculous.

But, I am OK with the referee deciding when to start the clock using his discretion, to account for various unforeseen situations including the one you mentioned.

I watched all of Nadal’s matches and I did not see them show the shot clock winding down more than once, and then he served immediately. Are u sure that u guys could always see the shot clock? I think u have to say he was quicker. I actually think it’s better for him.

 

[Carol]

A blog is where one person give their opinions in long essays. Which others may or may not comment upon. A forum is open conversation , which this is.

I don’t see any difference and trolls are all over in the forums and blogs

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I watched all of Nadal’s matches and I did not see them show the shot clock winding down more than once, and then he served immediately. Are u sure that u guys could always see the shot clock? I think u have to say he was quicker. I actually think it’s better for him.

The shot clock is right behind the server. If the TV camera is showing the player in a close up manner, we won't see. But, if the cameral angle captures the natural backdrop of the server, you can see it.

To be fair, Rafa is not walking around when the time expires. He is in some part of his rituals and/or service motion. By the time his racquet makes contact with the ball, it is definitely at least four seconds after expiry whenever I am able to observe the clock. BTW, the clock just expires at the end of 25 second (it counts down). It does not count up after reaching 0. So, we don't actually know how long he is late by using the clock. We just have to count it ourselves after it reaches 0.

 

[Horsa]

I stand corrected, Horsa, there is no point discriminating based on gender here. Thanks for your examples. That only strengthen my response to Nad goat pointing that he is completely wrong (and dangerously politically incorrect) by saying that I sound "like a woman" while clearly knowing I'm a man.

I agree. You're welcome. Everyone has their right to have & air their own opinions though. Everyone else has a right to believe or disbelieve them too.

 

[Moxie]

The shot clock is right behind the server. If the TV camera is showing the player in a close up manner, we won't see. But, if the cameral angle captures the natural backdrop of the server, you can see it.

To be fair, Rafa is not walking around when the time expires. He is in some part of his rituals and/or service motion. By the time his racquet makes contact with the ball, it is definitely at least four seconds after expiry whenever I am able to observe the clock. BTW, the clock just expires at the end of 25 second (it counts down). It does not count up after reaching 0. So, we don't actually know how long he is late by using the clock. We just have to count it ourselves after it reaches 0.

Ok, then, like me, you also didn’t see the shot clock run out when Rafa was serving. I think that’s just a prejudiced assumption. I saw them show it run to zero once and her served immediately afterwards. I think he was mostly w/in time. I don’t think he got a warning all tournament.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Ok, then, like me, you also didn’t see the shot clock run out when Rafa was serving. I think that’s just a prejudiced assumption. I saw them show it run to zero once and her served immediately afterwards. I think he was mostly w/in time. I don’t think he got a warning all tournament.

Reading comprehension?

There is no assumption. I saw the shot clock run out to zero. The only assumption is to figure out as to exactly how long it takes for Rafa to serve after the shot clock runs out. The reason for that is that the shot clock does not start counting up after running out to zero.

 

[Moxie]

How many times did u see it? U said that you couldn’t see it when he was in close-up and the shot clock was not in frame. Not just Rafa, I rarely saw the shot clock in frame during any player’s serving in the whole tournament. I basically only saw it in cut-away shots. Which can be misleading.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

How many times did u see it? U said that you couldn’t see it when he was in close-up and the shot clock was not in frame. Not just Rafa, I rarely saw the shot clock in frame during any player’s serving in the whole tournament. I basically only saw it in cut-away shots. Which can be misleading.

I saw Rafa running over time (with absolute certainty) three times. But, it should be lot more times as I never saw Rafa serve it out before the clock expires (not saying he never did, just that the shot clock was not visible all the time and they tend to focus on the shot clock only when he is behind on time).

 

[Moxie]

Funny I didn’t see that. Did u see the shot clock on other players because I didn’t see it much at all.

 

[Carol]

I'e read that Novak in Toronto took in his first match too long to serve (3 times) but he didn't get any warning
Meanwhile I see the shot clock is helping more to Rafa serving faster and better

 

[Chris Koziarz]

I saw Rafa running over time (with absolute certainty) three times. But, it should be lot more times as I never saw Rafa serve it out before the clock expires (not saying he never did, just that the shot clock was not visible all the time and they tend to focus on the shot clock only when he is behind on time).

I'm amused by this discussion, guys. A textbook example of belief bias, i.e. you see what you want to see rather than what is shown. The funny aspect is that there is no proof for the reality of either views because each one of yous will claim their version based on different video recordings where clock going down to zero shown or not shown or shown at different angle, etc.
I must chip in to this discussion here, and say how stupid organisers have been to feed such discussions by stopping the clock at zero. Either they should bang the siren when the clock reaches zero (like in football), or do not stop the clock but let it count down minus zero! And the clock should be reset only after the point is over (and starts counting for the next point), i.e. it'll remind everyone that the server was late at the beginning of the point That way, everybody can see the reality (without bias), and with each passing minus zero second, the crowd is incleasngly likely to boo Nadal (if siren did not boo him at zero) and the umpire will face increasing pressure to explain his abuse of "discretionary power" to overrule the rules. Further, snappy reporters will be zooming at Nadal's serving motion with a big number "-5" behind him, and sending the pictures to all tabloids around the world. I guarantee everyone, especially Nadal, will quickly learn how to "beat the clock", just like football players did. Let me remind you few years back how players used to look at their boxes before challenging. Nadal was looking at Uncle Toni every time. Somehow they were taught said look was illegal by consequent umpires, and no one does it anymore. Time to teach players how to appreciate the clock. The technology to do so is there: I repeat either boo the siren at zero, or don't stop the clock and let people and reporters boo the sticky minus zero number.
EDIT: I forgot to mention when the clock should actually be stopped if not at zero. Very simple: the hawk eye system detects the service motion/ball in motion and stops the clock. As I said the technology exists to do it right, only organisers' willingness to treat the clock seriously is missing.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I'm amused by this discussion, guys. A textbook example of belief bias, i.e. you see what you want to see rather than what is shown. The funny aspect is that there is no proof for the reality of either views because each one of yous will claim their version based on different video recordings where clock going down to zero shown or not shown or shown at different angle, etc.
I must chip in to this discussion here, and say how stupid organisers have been to feed such discussions by stopping the clock at zero. Either they should bang the siren when the clock reaches zero (like in football), or do not stop the clock but let it count down minus zero! And the clock should be reset only after the point is over (and starts counting for the next point), i.e. it'll remind everyone that the server was late at the beginning of the point That way, everybody can see the reality (without bias), and with each passing minus zero second, the crowd is incleasngly likely to boo Nadal (if siren did not boo him at zero) and the umpire will face increasing pressure to explain his abuse of "discretionary power" to overrule the rules. Further, snappy reporters will be zooming at Nadal's serving motion with a big number "-5" behind him, and sending the pictures to all tabloids around the world. I guarantee everyone, especially Nadal, will quickly learn how to "beat the clock", just like football players did. Let me remind you few years back how players used to look at their boxes before challenging. Nadal was looking at Uncle Toni every time. Somehow they were taught said look was illegal by consequent umpires, and no one does it anymore. Time to teach players how to appreciate the clock. The technology to do so is there: I repeat either boo the siren at zero, or don't stop the clock and let people and reporters boo the sticky minus zero number.
EDIT: I forgot to mention when the clock should actually be stopped if not at zero. Very simple: the hawk eye system detects the service motion/ball in motion and stops the clock. As I said the technology exists to do it right, only organisers' willingness to treat the clock seriously is missing.

1. There is no belief bias here. Both Rafa and the clock were shown simultaneously and very clearly he did not complete the serve before the clock ran down. This is not rocket science. This is plain evident truth right in front of the eyes. I saw it happen three times. Where the bias comes in is in the following.

a. I cannot tell precisely as to how long Rafa took to actually serve after the clock ran out. The reason being that the clock does not count any more once it runs out.

b. I cannot tell, how often Rafa was overshooting the clock. The reason being that they don't always show the clock when serving.

2. I don't think we currently have the technology to detect the striking of the ball and use it to stop the clock. We can simply make the clock ring a siren when it expires. However, that would be a bad idea as it would ring even when the server finishes the serve on time.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

1. There is no belief bias here. Both Rafa and the clock were shown simultaneously and very clearly he did not complete the serve before the clock ran down. This is not rocket science. This is plain evident truth right in front of the eyes. I saw it happen three times. Where the bias comes in is in the following.

a. I cannot tell precisely as to how long Rafa took to actually serve after the clock ran out. The reason being that the clock does not count any more once it runs out.

b. I cannot tell, how often Rafa was overshooting the clock. The reason being that they don't always show the clock when serving.

2. I don't think we currently have the technology to detect the striking of the ball and use it to stop the clock. We can simply make the clock ring a siren when it expires. However, that would be a bad idea as it would ring even when the server finishes the serve on time.

Maybe you do not realise (although I doubt it) but in your points a & b, you actually agree with my points about both clock not stopping at zero, and removal of incentive for large cognitive bias in fans' minds. All people (including myself) have biases, so the emphasised statement is not true, given the large bias incentives you've identified herein. In case you by mistake take it personally, note that my reply was not only to you but also to Moxie ("yous" in my parlance means "both of you") and I don't judge who is more biased here (yourself or herself), I point out the disagreement between you & Moxie is black-on-white evidence of said bias. Ergo, your emphasised statement is not true.
I disagree about your point 2. Me expertise is in image processing and I have decent understanding of the technology behind hawk-eye. But we can even ignore the technology if not available everywhere yet and have the base linesman stop the clock manually once they see the serving motion: it will be their duty extension in addition to call foot fault. Note my reluctance to give this duty to umpires who have historically shown ignorance to the clock, therefore are largely unfit for said duty.