Question to Fed fans - Is there anything Fed can do to get back his legacy?

[Bonaca]

Novak could play better for sure but I don't think Novak playing better would've made the scoreline much different tbh as Federer played great except the tiebreaks.

Really? Significantly better return game would not change the scoreline? And that’s only one aspect he could do better.
But maybe you are right, better Novak probably had squeezed out even more from Roger.
Let’s hope they both keep playing at least at that level they showed in London. It would be enough for the ugly one .

 

[Front242]

Really? Significantly better return game would not change the scoreline? And that’s only one aspect he could do better.
But maybe you are right, better Novak probably had squeezed out even more from Roger.
Let’s hope they both keep playing at least at that level they showed in London. It would be enough for the ugly one .

I honestly don't think so if you remember the 2014 match where Novak played the best he's ever played on grass and it still went to 6-4 in the 5th.

 

[Bonaca]

I honestly don't think so if you remember the 2014 match where Novak played the best he's ever played on grass and it still went to 6-4 in the 5th.

Accepted! Roger is the best on grass. Don’t see anyone who could take this from him. Novak beat him not because he is the better grasscourt player.
What level Roger is playing with almost 38 is just insane. Couldn’t see Novak doing this.
Novak has to take everything he could now! I couldn’t imagine where he would be without this fucking 2 year- dip!

 

[Moxie]

Yeah I spotted that before reading your message and edited it on the original post. Autospell on phone. Ducking annoying See! Neither guy is young btw. Point construction and ability to win points faster has a lot to do with it. Let's call a spade a spade, Federer has better attacking skills and therefore wins points quicker which results in less energy expended and much faster matches.

"Excuse" and "Accuse" are different words...they don't even start with the same letter. I don't think it was your spell-check...unless "auto-correct" is a Nadal fan! :lulz2: Anyway, no neither guy is young, but that's the point. Nadal does get tired now, but you've been dogging about his stamina since he was 22-23-24? depending on however long you've been on the forums. He should be tireless at that age. However, Roger used to get tired, and now he doesn't. The weird part is that that's not strange at all to you.

Philip Petzschner famously said he thought it was that strange Nadal took 2 medical timeouts against him at Wimbledon 2010 (didn't most of us who aren't clueless) as it looked like he could play for another 3 sets. Somehow though only Federer is a doper to your blind eyes lol. Newsflash but Federer has way, way better baseline skills than Sampras

An MTO has nothing to do with tiredness. Now you're just throwing in some of your Nadal's Greatest Gamesmanship Hits for fun and distraction. Speaking of gamesmanship....

 

[DarthFed]

He beat him despite his B Game. That’s the reason they played 5 sets. Roger would have lost in 4 or maybe 3 sets against his A Game. Just think about his ROS?
Age isn’t the mean factor, look he played Nadal and Novak and shows no signs of tiredness.
What surly is fucking disappointing for him, the fact he didn’t took this huge chance against a not well playing Novak in the final of his best Slam.
How could he have bigger chances anywhere else???

Roger at an awful level on grass (see 2015 final) is still going at least 4 or 5 sets before he loses. I think Roger was fairly average in this final against a very sub par Djokovic. He should have got the job done but he was completely worthless in nearly every big moment. If you're a disaster when it counts did you really play that well?

 

[Bonaca]

Roger at an awful level on grass (see 2015 final) is still going at least 4 or 5 sets before he loses. I think Roger was fairly average in this final against a very sub par Djokovic. He should have got the job done but he was completely worthless in nearly every big moment. If you're a disaster when it counts did you really play that well?

I'm mostly with you, I can’t say, like many others do, Roger was the better player when playing that bad at the big moments. He was unlucky that Novak played the big points well.
But on the other side I couldn’t agree with you that Roger played average, he played a very good tournament and also F.
I understand, you , as a real Maestro Fan, have another look at this.
He really should have done the job at 8:7 40:15, as I wrote before, I don’t see higher chances for him for a slam win than at Wimbledon.
And I think he would have done the job against any other player.
But he surely isn’t done yet. Believe me.

 

[DarthFed]

I'm mostly with you, I can’t say, like many others do, Roger was the better player when playing that bad at the big moments. He was unlucky that Novak played the big points well.
But on the other side I couldn’t agree with you that Roger played average, he played a very good tournament and also F.
I understand, you , as a real Maestro Fan, have another look at this.
He really should have done the job at 8:7 40:15, as I wrote before, I don’t see higher chances for him for a slam win than at Wimbledon.
And I think he would have done the job against any other player.
But he surely isn’t done yet. Believe me.

You think Roger will win more majors? I'm not sure. One thing we've thankfully learned is you can't ever count him out.

His chances at Wimbledon would be a lot higher if it actually played like a grass court. He wouldn't only have a measly 8 at Wimbledon.

 

[Bonaca]

You think Roger will win more majors? I'm not sure. One thing we've thankfully learned is you can't ever count him out.

His chances at Wimbledon would be a lot higher if it actually played like a grass court. He wouldn't only have a measly 8 at Wimbledon.

Never count him out. In Wimbledon next year and at both HC Slams, with this level he is the favourite beside Novak. Give him a better draw and that’s it. Novak couldn’t reach every final, he is vulnerable for earlier upsets.
If it’s not Novak I want him to win.
Yes on original grass court he had won that match, on faster courts Novak has to be much better on the ROS.

 

[Front242]

"Excuse" and "Accuse" are different words...they don't even start with the same letter. I don't think it was your spell-check...unless "auto-correct" is a Nadal fan! :lulz2: Anyway, no neither guy is young, but that's the point. Nadal does get tired now, but you've been dogging about his stamina since he was 22-23-24? depending on however long you've been on the forums. He should be tireless at that age. However, Roger used to get tired, and now he doesn't. The weird part is that that's not strange at all to you.

An MTO has nothing to do with tiredness. Now you're just throwing in some of your Nadal's Greatest Gamesmanship Hits for fun and distraction. Speaking of gamesmanship....

Obviously if his opponent says it looked like he could play another 3 sets it meant he was being politically correct in saying there was nothing at all wrong with him which clearly there wasn't. He continued running like a gazelle once his MTOs worked and ruined Petzschner's momentum. You said it yourself, MTOs have nothing to do with tiredness and who claimed they did? The point was he was running like a madman before and after them, ie. nothing wrong with him as Petzschner correctly pointed out. It was his most shameful moment of gamesmanship and he's had many. Obviously nothing will top the shit break at Indian Wells in terms of no sense of decency but he was getting his ass truly kicked in that Wimbledon 2010 match and it was really downright poor what he did. He should be able to win without needing to stoop so low.

Roger doesn't get tired? Why does he tank sets so since around 2010-2011 ? Of course he gets tired. He plays intelligently and wins points quickly and if he falls behind early in a set he tanks it against the best players and has for years now. If he didn't get tired he'd keep on running down every ball no matter how far behind in the set he was like Nadal, Ferrer and Bautista Agut. Nothing looks strange to me because, unlike you, I'm well aware that this guy who is 38 in under 2 weeks has for years been unable to play well week in week out and hence the long breaks he takes between tournaments. Not only that, why the hell is he playing a greatly reduced schedule? It's long been the case that if he has a few long matches early in slams, or any tournament for that matter (mostly masters with the lack of days off) he's toast when it gets to the business end with the big matches. He's lost to a lot of nobodies for years now when he's been stretched in preceding matches.

PS: There's a space of 1cm between a and e on phone displays so, yes, I do know how to spell accuse

 

[Front242]

Never count him out. In Wimbledon next year and at both HC Slams, with this level he is the favourite beside Novak. Give him a better draw and that’s it. Novak couldn’t reach every final, he is vulnerable for earlier upsets.
If it’s not Novak I want him to win.
Yes on original grass court he had won that match, on faster courts Novak has to be much better on the ROS.

Right now I'd give Roger the best chances at the AO and Wimbledon but even then it's a long shot and I don't really expect him to win another slam tbh but I guess anything is possible with the draws. He hasn't a prayer at the USO imo. The courts are dog slow there last few years and he hasn't done well there for a long time. The AO suits him better since they sped things up there.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

You think Roger will win more majors? I'm not sure. One thing we've thankfully learned is you can't ever count him out.

 

[DarthFed]

Right now I'd give Roger the best chances at the AO and Wimbledon but even then it's a long shot and I don't really expect him to win another slam tbh but I guess anything is possible with the draws. He hasn't a prayer at the USO imo. The courts are dog slow there last few years and he hasn't done well there for a long time. The AO suits him better since they sped things up there.

Yeah the AO was nice for at least a couple years. Proof of what happens (still) when Roger gets to play on a fast court.

I will admit this Wimbledon did have a pretty darn low bounce so it was a nice court for Roger's game even with it being much slower than it should be. The problem is a medium/slow court is Novak's wet dream. Against Novak, Roger wants a fast court above all else. Against Nadal he wants a low bounce of course.

 

[Bonaca]

Right now I'd give Roger the best chances at the AO and Wimbledon but even then it's a long shot and I don't really expect him to win another slam tbh but I guess anything is possible with the draws. He hasn't a prayer at the USO imo. The courts are dog slow there last few years and he hasn't done well there for a long time. The AO suits him better since they sped things up there.

Australia will get new courts 2020 , a company of Mr. Sanchez-Vicario. Does anybody know something about the speed and bounce of this new surface??

 

[Ricardo]

Yeah the AO was nice for at least a couple years. Proof of what happens (still) when Roger gets to play on a fast court.

I will admit this Wimbledon did have a pretty darn low bounce so it was a nice court for Roger's game even with it being much slower than it should be. The problem is a medium/slow court is Novak's wet dream. Against Novak, Roger wants a fast court above all else. Against Nadal he wants a low bounce of course.

Low bounce and fast, the ATP has pretty much ditched it or anything close. It's just the ways things run, in the 90s they totally embraced it and then the moment they think it favours the offensive players they go the opposite. There is never a balance with these guys, they can't settle for at least a respectable amount of fast and low bounce tournaments thus the tour is dominated by baseline grinders.

 

[Moxie]

Roger doesn't get tired? Why does he tank sets so since around 2010-2011 ? Of course he gets tired. He plays intelligently and wins points quickly and if he falls behind early in a set he tanks it against the best players and has for years now. If he didn't get tired he'd keep on running down every ball no matter how far behind in the set he was like Nadal, Ferrer and Bautista Agut. Nothing looks strange to me because, unlike you, I'm well aware that this guy who is 38 in under 2 weeks has for years been unable to play well week in week out and hence the long breaks he takes between tournaments. Not only that, why the hell is he playing a greatly reduced schedule? It's long been the case that if he has a few long matches early in slams, or any tournament for that matter (mostly masters with the lack of days off) he's toast when it gets to the business end with the big matches. He's lost to a lot of nobodies for years now when he's been stretched in preceding matches.

My point was precisely that Roger used to get tired. I'm talking about since 2017, when he seems to less often. As you say, even 7-8 years ago, tanking sets (is that gentlemanly?) and now it's Djokovic tanking a set just to keep up with him.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

My point was precisely that Roger used to get tired. I'm talking about since 2017, when he seems to less often. As you say, even 7-8 years ago, tanking sets (is that gentlemanly?) and now it's Djokovic tanking a set just to keep up with him.

Swiss medecine...

 

[brokenshoelace]

The conversation is so basic and simple that we're discussing a player's physique and playing style to determine if they're doping. I mean honestly, it's ridiculous.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Also, you can dissect Roger's game all you want but fact is an athlete at his age, playing tennis no less, is typically NOT this fit and doesn't look nearly as good practicing their sport (I mean aesthetically, his game still looks like he's in his early 30's).

I'm not accusing him of anything but to just turn a blind eye to that while throwing baseless accusations based on other arbitrary criteria is ridiculous. I can easily claim he looked done in 2016, took a long hiatus, then came back looking like Superman (which he did in early 2017, where he survived 3 marathons at the AO).

Now, I've always said they all dope (baseless accusation, but I firmly believe it), but if we're going to selectively look at signs, then there's no way you can conveniently ignore the above.

 

[Bonaca]

Also, you can dissect Roger's game all you want but fact is an athlete at his age, playing tennis no less, is typically NOT this fit and doesn't look nearly as good practicing their sport (I mean aesthetically, his game still looks like he's in his early 30's).

I'm not accusing him of anything but to just turn a blind eye to that while throwing baseless accusations based on other arbitrary criteria is ridiculous. I can easily claim he looked done in 2016, took a long hiatus, then came back looking like Superman (which he did in early 2017, where he survived 3 marathons at the AO).

Now, I've always said they all dope (baseless accusation, but I firmly believe it), but if we're going to selectively look at signs, then there's no way you can conveniently ignore the above.

First you wrote this discussion is ridiculous , I agree with that. No one can proof anything of this doping stuff.
Then you wrote about the selective look at signs, man what about bull?? There couldn’t be more subjective signs to notice!!
He is a muscle machine that never gets tired. He works out more than any other player in the history.
My first thoughts about Roger are not he is cheating, his playing style benefits him, much more than Novak, not to talk about bull.
We will see how long Bull will play at this level, cheating or not!

 

[brokenshoelace]

First you wrote this discussion is ridiculous , I agree with that. No one can proof anything of this doping stuff.
Then you wrote about the selective look at signs, man what about bull?? There couldn’t be more subjective signs to notice!!
He is a muscle machine that never gets tired. He works out more than any other player in the history.
My first thoughts about Roger are not he is cheating, his playing style benefits him, much more than Novak, not to talk about bull.
We will see how long Bull will play at this level, cheating or not!

Every selective sign about Nadal has already been covered by Front in this thread so what's the point of rehashing? My whole response was to Front in order to show that the same way he's being selective about Nadal, anyone can be selective about anyone, including Roger and Novak (I mean he went from a wimp who would retire at the first sign of adversity to a cardio machine in the span of like 3 months).

Also, Nadal is not a muscle machine. This seems like it stuck to him since his pirate days where his biceps were showing. His chest and abs are nothing special. That said, if this is what you're looking for to understand if an athlete is doping or not, you don't know much about doping. This isn't pro wrestling or body building.

And they all dope. Nobody wants to believe that because it's uncomfortable but whatever.

PS: Roger's style being proof of non doping is a very simplistic outlook. It implies that only those with physical styles dope and that's just ludicrous.