Novak Protects Roger's Legacy

[lacatch]

Logic would say that Roger should root for/be more appreciative of Novak's efforts against Rafa, since that's what's preserving Roger's slam record. Most recently, after losing against Stan, Roger was quoted as saying he STILL thought that Nadal was the one to beat at RG given his incredible record, etc. I think Roger's lack of camaraderie with/respect for Novak is due to the early bad blood where Roger felt disrespected back in the day by Novak and his parents, and he never accepted Novak as an "almost equal" because he had a winning record against him, whereas with Rafa......

 

[Kieran]

I think the bad blood between them is long gone, and we might be surprised by Roger's attitude to Rafa. He might not care about whether Rafa gets to 17 or not. It could be that he appreciates these things better than we do, as fans. I remember when Roger start closing on Pete, Pete's attitude was great. He said that records were there to be broken, etc. He'd run his course, and now it was for others. He also said an interesting thing, that he never roots against players. It could be that Roger feels the same. No matter what Rafa does or doesn't do, Roger's records are his own and will stay intact on the books forever...

 

[Federberg]

Logic would say that Roger should root for/be more appreciative of Novak's efforts against Rafa, since that's what's preserving Roger's slam record. Most recently, after losing against Stan, Roger was quoted as saying he STILL thought that Nadal was the one to beat at RG given his incredible record, etc. I think Roger's lack of camaraderie with/respect for Novak is due to the early bad blood where Roger felt disrespected back in the day by Novak and his parents, and he never accepted Novak as an "almost equal" because he had a winning record against him, whereas with Rafa......

I think you're misreading the situation. For a start I think any bad blood was set aside years ago. Their families actually went to dinner together in Basle 4 or 5 years ago. There's mutual respect, and I believe they chat often in the locker room. I suspect that Roger is the sort of old school guy that will be dismissive of cocky upstarts, but when you start producing he's respectful.

And as for his record, I don't think he guards his record in that way at all. The guy loves playing tennis, and is a historian. He knows what he has done will stand up to any scrutiny, and I doubt he cares as we fanboys do if it's surpassed. As he said recently, no one can take away his achievements.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Novak is too busy building his own legacy.

 

[Riotbeard]

I also think saying the 9 time champ is the favorite is just diplomatic and respectful to Rafa. Who knows if he meant it.

 

[Puppet Master]

If you ask me, it is very dumb of Roger fans to support Novak that much, if it is just because of the legacy thing. As that devil "protects the legacy" he is also breking Roger's records himself. There is a number of things in which he has surpassed ol' Wodge and he is not finished yet. If you genuinely like the guy, it's alright but as I said, the legacy thing could have been stated 3 or 4 years ago. Now it's just nonsense. Y'all should be rooting for Andy going by that logic.

 

[DarthFed]

I'm fine with Nole breaking Roger's records. Not rooting for it of course but it won't make me dislike him in the least. Personally I don't think he will break many of note. In the near future the most significant one under attack is YEC's. Roger has a record of 6 but Nole already has 4 and the way he's looked indoors he has a good chance to win at least 2 more.

 

[Front242]

Maybe we actually genuinely like him and his game? I know I do so that's my reasoning. I could just as easily vote for Murray, Stan or Tsonga to win the whole thing but out of those guys I like Djokovic the most. I used to be much more of a fan of Tsonga than I am these days but he became so mediocre I stopped watching his matches as they bored me. Seems he's playing well this tournament though but again I didn't watch more than 5 mins of his matches.

 

[Puppet Master]

Front, I literally said it in those words that it is ok to like him for whatever reason other than the legacy thing. You probably just scanned my post quickly and didn't even see it lol.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Maybe we actually genuinely like him and his game? I know I do so that's my reasoning.

The same way Sampras fans genuinely liked Nadal and his game, I'm sure.

 

[Front242]

Maybe we actually genuinely like him and his game? I know I do so that's my reasoning.

The same way Sampras fans genuinely liked Nadal and his game, I'm sure.

You assume way too much about other posters here. Look, I like how Djokovic plays and I don't have too many bad things to say about him, hence why I actually like the guy. Is that so hard to believe? For everyone but you it doesn't seem to be 'cos no one else replied. Kieran is a massive Sampras fan so ask him about Sampras instead.

 

[Moxie]

Maybe we actually genuinely like him and his game? I know I do so that's my reasoning.

The same way Sampras fans genuinely liked Nadal and his game, I'm sure.

You assume way too much about other posters here. Look, I like how Djokovic plays and I don't have too many bad things to say about him, hence why I actually like the guy. Is that so hard to believe? For everyone but you it doesn't seem to be 'cos no one else replied. Kieran is a massive Sampras fan so ask him about Sampras instead.

Perhaps so. But Broken is not wrong that Sampras fans, who didn't want Federer to usurp him, jumped on the Nadal bandwagon, thinking it was a safe-haven, and not expecting the Spanish Inquisition. (Sad, insensitive Monty Python reference. Sorry.) By the same token, had ages and fortunes been reversed, it's hard to believe that Fed fans wouldn't have disliked Djokovic, a solid baseliner and serious time-violator until recently, had he been the one challenging Roger's legacy. They would even likely have embraced Rafa, had he come up to threaten Nole. I'm sure you Fed fans don't want to be seen as so easily transparent in your preferences, and the differences between their styles has been made much of, so I know that does feature. But if Rafa didn't threaten Roger's legacy, you wouldn't be so virulently against him. If it had been Novak, you wouldn't see him as an ally, or buy his game so happily. In this era of potential all-time greats, I think it's safe to say that you, the Federer fans, would have been against anyone that most threatened the legacy. I'm sorry if I reduce you, as a group, to a cliche, but that's the way I see it.

 

[Riotbeard]

The same way Sampras fans genuinely liked Nadal and his game, I'm sure.

You assume way too much about other posters here. Look, I like how Djokovic plays and I don't have too many bad things to say about him, hence why I actually like the guy. Is that so hard to believe? For everyone but you it doesn't seem to be 'cos no one else replied. Kieran is a massive Sampras fan so ask him about Sampras instead.

Perhaps so. But Broken is not wrong that Sampras fans, who didn't want Federer to usurp him, jumped on the Nadal bandwagon, thinking it was a safe-haven, and not expecting the Spanish Inquisition. (Sad, insensitive Monty Python reference. Sorry.) By the same token, had ages and fortunes been reversed, it's hard to believe that Fed fans wouldn't have disliked Djokovic, a solid baseliner and serious time-violator until recently, had he been the one challenging Roger's legacy. They would even likely have embraced Rafa, had he come up to threaten Nole. I'm sure you Fed fans don't want to be seen as so easily transparent in your preferences, and the differences between their styles has been made much of, so I know that does feature. But if Rafa didn't threaten Roger's legacy, you wouldn't be so virulently against him. If it had been Novak, you wouldn't see him as an ally, or buy his game so happily. In this era of potential all-time greats, I think it's safe to say that you, the Federer fans, would have been against anyone that most threatened the legacy. I'm sorry if I reduce you, as a group, to a cliche, but that's the way I see it.

They might dislike Novak, but I don't buy they would necessarily like Rafa, if they are into the style of play Fed provides. Also Novak plays more aggressive game than Rafa. I am not saying there is nothing to what you are saying, but you are also ignoring the facts that support the alternative notion in terms of game, Fed fans would be more naturally attracted to how Novak plays than Rafa... I do think some like Novak more because they don't like Rafa than wanting to protect Fed's numbers. As much as Rafa inspires love amongst his fans, I think also attracts the most strong dislike by others.

 

[DarthFed]

It isn't all or even mostly about the threat Rafa poses to Roger's records. Nole's game and personality and lack of bush league antics are much more appealing than Rafa's. If Djokovic had a similar style to Rafa and was a petty dude I'd also H-word/Muzza him, no questions asked.

 

[Riotbeard]

It isn't all or even mostly about the threat Rafa poses to Roger's records. Nole's game and personality and lack of bush league antics are much more appealing than Rafa's. If Djokovic had a similar style to Rafa and was a petty dude I'd also H-word/Muzza him, no questions asked.

I think Fed Fans more enjoy that Novak can beat up on Rafa, and seeing the tables turned (Not that the Novak-Rafa h2h is the same as Rafa-Fed, before Rafa fans start screaming), in addition to just like how he plays.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I think only fans care about this stuff. Players have other priorities, like winning tournaments for themselves. All these records...nobody even talked about them up until Pete was approaching the slam record. Nobody cared about all the stats that we talk about today. I bet Roger does not even know a quarter of the records he holds. And he does not need anyone to protect his legacy. It is set. Someone does better, all the power to him.

 

[Moxie]

You assume way too much about other posters here. Look, I like how Djokovic plays and I don't have too many bad things to say about him, hence why I actually like the guy. Is that so hard to believe? For everyone but you it doesn't seem to be 'cos no one else replied. Kieran is a massive Sampras fan so ask him about Sampras instead.

Perhaps so. But Broken is not wrong that Sampras fans, who didn't want Federer to usurp him, jumped on the Nadal bandwagon, thinking it was a safe-haven, and not expecting the Spanish Inquisition. (Sad, insensitive Monty Python reference. Sorry.) By the same token, had ages and fortunes been reversed, it's hard to believe that Fed fans wouldn't have disliked Djokovic, a solid baseliner and serious time-violator until recently, had he been the one challenging Roger's legacy. They would even likely have embraced Rafa, had he come up to threaten Nole. I'm sure you Fed fans don't want to be seen as so easily transparent in your preferences, and the differences between their styles has been made much of, so I know that does feature. But if Rafa didn't threaten Roger's legacy, you wouldn't be so virulently against him. If it had been Novak, you wouldn't see him as an ally, or buy his game so happily. In this era of potential all-time greats, I think it's safe to say that you, the Federer fans, would have been against anyone that most threatened the legacy. I'm sorry if I reduce you, as a group, to a cliche, but that's the way I see it.

They might dislike Novak, but I don't buy they would necessarily like Rafa, if they are into the style of play Fed provides. Also Novak plays more aggressive game than Rafa. I am not saying there is nothing to what you are saying, but you are also ignoring the facts that support the alternative notion in terms of game, Fed fans would be more naturally attracted to how Novak plays than Rafa... I do think some like Novak more because they don't like Rafa than wanting to protect Fed's numbers. As much as Rafa inspires love amongst his fans, I think also attracts the most strong dislike by others.

I'm not ignoring anything, and I think you get me completely. Rafa and Roger are polar opposites in terms of game, and the press ate that up. They created the perfect rivalry and dichotomy. And then Rafa stopped being just a dirt-baller. Yikes. Perfect set-up for the Fed fans to hate him, and create all kinds of narratives whereby he was lesser, evil, etc. A lot of it unfair, IMO. But hear me out.

Fed fans didn't much like Djokovic because Federer himself didn't, for a long time, and that was obvious. Everything changed when Nole found a new level, and was able to do to Rafa what Roger hadn't: stop him at Slams, and challenge his game. Suddenly, a bromance was born, especially as a co-joining of factions. I take your point that my parallel universe is imperfect, but it's not without validity. The Federer fans protect Roger's legacy, and they would have been against whomever was the greater threat.

By the same token, Nadal complicates both Roger and Novak's legacies, and so he is seen as the enemy by both camps. That's why we get so much anti-Nadal bile.

Which has been frankly shameless. And we Nadal fans get criticized just for backing him. He is a great champion, and the reasons for slagging him are factional, as much as anything else. The "hating" on him is not about his game, or anything else, so much as it is about his threat.

 

[El Dude]

Novak is too busy building his own legacy.

Clearly you are mistaken. Only the Fedal Legacy matters, and all other legacies are trivial and relevant only in how they relate to Fedal.

:snicker

 

[El Dude]

Oh yeah and, lighten up, Moxie!

 

[I.Haychew]

Perhaps so. But Broken is not wrong that Sampras fans, who didn't want Federer to usurp him, jumped on the Nadal bandwagon, thinking it was a safe-haven, and not expecting the Spanish Inquisition. (Sad, insensitive Monty Python reference. Sorry.) By the same token, had ages and fortunes been reversed, it's hard to believe that Fed fans wouldn't have disliked Djokovic, a solid baseliner and serious time-violator until recently, had he been the one challenging Roger's legacy. They would even likely have embraced Rafa, had he come up to threaten Nole. I'm sure you Fed fans don't want to be seen as so easily transparent in your preferences, and the differences between their styles has been made much of, so I know that does feature. But if Rafa didn't threaten Roger's legacy, you wouldn't be so virulently against him. If it had been Novak, you wouldn't see him as an ally, or buy his game so happily. In this era of potential all-time greats, I think it's safe to say that you, the Federer fans, would have been against anyone that most threatened the legacy. I'm sorry if I reduce you, as a group, to a cliche, but that's the way I see it.

They might dislike Novak, but I don't buy they would necessarily like Rafa, if they are into the style of play Fed provides. Also Novak plays more aggressive game than Rafa. I am not saying there is nothing to what you are saying, but you are also ignoring the facts that support the alternative notion in terms of game, Fed fans would be more naturally attracted to how Novak plays than Rafa... I do think some like Novak more because they don't like Rafa than wanting to protect Fed's numbers. As much as Rafa inspires love amongst his fans, I think also attracts the most strong dislike by others.

I'm not ignoring anything, and I think you get me completely. Rafa and Roger are polar opposites in terms of game, and the press ate that up. They created the perfect rivalry and dichotomy. And then Rafa stopped being just a dirt-baller. Yikes. Perfect set-up for the Fed fans to hate him, and create all kinds of narratives whereby he was lesser, evil, etc. A lot of it unfair, IMO. But hear me out.

Fed fans didn't much like Djokovic because Federer himself didn't, for a long time, and that was obvious. Everything changed when Nole found a new level, and was able to do to Rafa what Roger hadn't: stop him at Slams, and challenge his game. Suddenly, a bromance was born, especially as a co-joining of factions. I take your point that my parallel universe is imperfect, but it's not without validity. The Federer fans protect Roger's legacy, and they would have been against whomever was the greater threat.

By the same token, Nadal complicates both Roger and Novak's legacies, and so he is seen as the enemy by both camps. That's why we get so much anti-Nadal bile.

Which has been frankly shameless. And we Nadal fans get criticized just for backing him. He is a great champion, and the reasons for slagging him are factional, as much as anything else. The "hating" on him is not about his game, or anything else, so much as it is about his threat.

Minus a couple of things, your post pretty well describes me. The main difference being that, at this point, I actually wouldn't mind it if Djokovic breaks every Federer record. Folks surpassing Federer's major total, though, is unacceptable!