Novak Djokovic - the player of the decade

[Ricardo]

Does it make the matter worse if I point out that 19 of Novak’s 24 wins against Roger came when Rog was 30yo or more? Oh yes, makes me puke when the fans gloat with no mention of context...and then get angry if someone is level headed enough to point out! For your record, Federer never said or implied that he lost due to old age, he certainly also never shy away from challenging the best players...he could have retired years ago to preserve some legacy (like his h-h vs Novak), and now Novak fans use that against him...so disgusting!

 

[Chris Koziarz]

Does it make the matter worse if I point out that 19 [wrong] of Novak’s 24 wins against Roger came when Rog was 30yo or more? Oh yes, makes me puke when the fans gloat with no mention of context...and then get angry if someone is level headed enough to point out! For your record, Federer never said or implied that he lost due to old age, he certainly also never shy away from challenging the best players...he could have retired years ago to preserve some legacy (like his h-h vs Novak), and now Novak fans use that against him...so disgusting!

Your math is wrong. should be 16 out of 24.
https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/fedex-head-2-head/roger-federer-vs-novak-djokovic/f324/d643
The first of the series is USO 2011 where Fed age clock advances (after Roger's Cup were he celebrates his bday), Fed is born in 1981, so he was 29 or younger before USO2011, including Roger's Cup 2011.
Check your facts before you puke otherwise your emotions look silly.

 

[Ricardo]

Your math is wrong. should be 16 out of 24.
https://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/fedex-head-2-head/roger-federer-vs-novak-djokovic/f324/d643
The first of the series is USO 2011 where Fed age clock advances (after Roger's Cup were he celebrates his bday), Fed is born in 1981, so he was 29 or younger before USO2011, including Roger's Cup 2011.
Check your facts before you puke otherwise your emotions look silly.

Oh wow well spotted, so he was 29 and half when 19 losses started counting....well I did it from 2011 onwards so yes he was 29 and half at the AO. The point is the same, that the vast majority of losses happened when he was officially an ageing player. 16 or 19, says the same thing.

 

[DarthFed]

Please don't pull that age bull$#!t with me! I don't even want to see or hear it! If he's going to use that excuse, it's more pathetic than I thought! I expect fans to make excuses for him; HELL I was one of them 10 years ago! The facts are Federer has always been owned by Nadal and Nole took over their rivalry back in 2010; Roger unable to beat either when it really counted for the most part! If age is his issue maybe he should take his old arse out of the game! For some reason this really PO me! Athletes and their fans shouldn't go there!

He didn't turn it around until 2011. Age isn't an excuse, it's a fact. And anyone arguing that a 36 year old should be on a level playing field as a 30 year old is off their rocker. Are you one of the idiots who argue that Roger is as good today as he was in his mid 20's?

 

[Fiero425]

He didn't turn it around until 2011. Age isn't an excuse, it's a fact. And anyone arguing that a 36 year old should be on a level playing field as a 30 year old is off their rocker. Are you one of the idiots who argue that Roger is as good today as he was in his mid 20's?

ALL I will say is "don't play then;" PERIOD, end of story! Nothing's more pathetic than using a crutch of injury (Nadal) or "Father Time" to explain a series of losses! I'll give you a couple, but multiple losses on multiple surface; you are just owned and need to get over it!

 

[Jelenafan]

He didn't turn it around until 2011. Age isn't an excuse, it's a fact. And anyone arguing that a 36 year old should be on a level playing field as a 30 year old is off their rocker. Are you one of the idiots who argue that Roger is as good today as he was in his mid 20's?

Per your reasoning Federer should retire to protect his legacy and head2head. I guess that’s the solution : all “aging” players in any sport should hang it up.

40 and 41 year old Drew Brees and Ton Brady in the NFL should be forced to hang it up, hell Aaron Rodgers is already 34 and past his prime, Tiger Woods is practically an octogenarian let’s ship him to the convalescent home.

Every athlete ages, that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that Federer’s best Major winning years were 2003-2009, and that both Rafa and Nole have won more majors since for the last 9 years. It’s also a fact that Federer won 4 of his Majors (2003-04) when both Rafa and Nole were very young and inexperienced to be able to compete in this Majors (ages 18 and 17). News flash : those victories for Federer count even when he beats older players such as “ aging Agassi” so it’s beyond BS to want only those to count in his favor. It’s also a fact that Rafa beat per Federer fans “ peak Federer” era in matches. It’s also a fact that Federer hasn’t beaten Nole in a Major grasscout or hardcourt tournament in virtually a decade.

It’s also a fact that due to conditioning, nutrition and breakthroughs in medical treatments athletes in many sports continue to thrive and prosper into their 30’s.

Another fact: currently the 4 top ranked ATP players are all 30 and older and 7 of the top 10 are all 30 and older.

It’s also a fact that some just count Federer’s victories and discount/excuse his losses.

Nole is having a relatively late career resurgence, who the hell cares whether he as as good as “peak “ Djokovic of 14/15. The point is he’s winning NOW.

ETA: Nole has beaten Federer in 7 out of 8 HC/grass Majors since 2010.

 

[Fiero425]

Per your reasoning Federer should retire to protect his legacy and head2head. I guess that’s the solution : all “aging” players in any sport should hang it up.

40 and 41 year old Drew Brees and Ton Brady in the NFL should be forced to hang it up, hell Aaron Rodgers is already 34 and past his prime, Tiger Woods is practically an octogenarian let’s ship him to the convalescent home.

Every athlete ages, that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that Federer’s best Major winning years were 2003-2009, and that both Rafa and Nole have won more majors since for the last 9 years. It’s also a fact that Federer won 4 of his Majors (2003-04) when both Rafa and Nole were very young and inexperienced to be able to compete in this Majors (ages 18 and 17). News flash : those victories for Federer count even when he beats older players such as “ aging Agassi” so it’s beyond BS to want only those to count in his favor. It’s also a fact that Rafa beat per Federer fans “ peak Federer” era in matches. It’s also a fact that Federer hasn’t beaten Nole in a Major grasscout or hardcourt tournament in virtually a decade.

It’s also a fact that due to conditioning, nutrition and breakthroughs in medical treatments athletes in many sports continue to thrive and prosper into their 30’s.

Another fact: currently the 4 top ranked ATP players are all 30 and older and 7 of the top 10 are all 30 and older.

It’s also a fact that some just count Federer’s victories and discount/excuse his losses.

Nole is having a relatively late career resurgence, who the hell cares whether he as as good as “peak “ Djokovic of 14/15. The point is he’s winning NOW.

Thank you! Never thought I'd have an argument/debate like this with knowledgeable, experienced players and fans! I guess "fanatic" is right when their reasoning goes out the window trying to protect one player's legacy!

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

Yeah comparing a team sport to an individual battle like tennis is totally legit

Most foolish Nadal fangirl on this forum strikes again

 

[DarthFed]

ALL I will say is "don't play then;" PERIOD, end of story! Nothing's more pathetic than using a crutch of injury (Nadal) or "Father Time" to explain a series of losses! I'll give you a couple, but multiple losses on multiple surface; you are just owned and need to get over it!

So because Roger is no longer as good as he used to be he should retire. Or is it that he is no longer the best player in the world. If he retired when he was past his prime he'd have been gone by 2010 at the latest and with 16 slams he'd have been passed up and looking weaker by the day career wise.

His age is a fact buddy and yes at his age he should be losing every fucking time to guys 5-6 years younger than him. Roger owned Djokovic when he was mid-late 20's and Djokovic was early 20's and the script changed when Djoker was mid 20's and Federer was early 30's. That's the way it should be, and the fact is the vast majority of their matches have been played with Djokovic clearly enjoying the age advantage. Period. And God knows how much it's helped Djokovic and Nadal that everything slowed down especially at that shitty joke they call Wimbledon. Roger wouldn't have been easy for them to beat on an actual grass court.

 

[DarthFed]

Per your reasoning Federer should retire to protect his legacy and head2head. I guess that’s the solution : all “aging” players in any sport should hang it up.

40 and 41 year old Drew Brees and Ton Brady in the NFL should be forced to hang it up, hell Aaron Rodgers is already 34 and past his prime, Tiger Woods is practically an octogenarian let’s ship him to the convalescent home.

Every athlete ages, that’s a fact. It’s also a fact that Federer’s best Major winning years were 2003-2009, and that both Rafa and Nole have won more majors since for the last 9 years. It’s also a fact that Federer won 4 of his Majors (2003-04) when both Rafa and Nole were very young and inexperienced to be able to compete in this Majors (ages 18 and 17). News flash : those victories for Federer count even when he beats older players such as “ aging Agassi” so it’s beyond BS to want only those to count in his favor. It’s also a fact that Rafa beat per Federer fans “ peak Federer” era in matches. It’s also a fact that Federer hasn’t beaten Nole in a Major grasscout or hardcourt tournament in virtually a decade.

It’s also a fact that due to conditioning, nutrition and breakthroughs in medical treatments athletes in many sports continue to thrive and prosper into their 30’s.

Another fact: currently the 4 top ranked ATP players are all 30 and older and 7 of the top 10 are all 30 and older.

It’s also a fact that some just count Federer’s victories and discount/excuse his losses.

Nole is having a relatively late career resurgence, who the hell cares whether he as as good as “peak “ Djokovic of 14/15. The point is he’s winning NOW.

ETA: Nole has beaten Federer in 7 out of 8 HC/grass Majors since 2010.

When the hell did I say Roger should retire because he's no longer in his prime?

And are we seriously comparing this to a position in a team sport that requires very little athleticism and endurance to be successful? Have you seen Brady and Manning run faster than a turtle?

I want you clowns to answer a couple questions. If you don't know the names of two tennis players but instead just know their ages (24 and 30) who do you expect to win? Current answer may actually be close but 7 years ago it was absolutely the 24 year old and we know sports and sports nutrition changes fast. And how about 31 and 37? Even today that is an easy answer.

The Fed haters like yourselves use his age against him. It's like Djoker and others hammering him means he was never any good because clearly at 37 he should still be as good as ever somehow. Roger just lost to Kevin Fucking Anderson and a Milkman in the last two majors.

No one says the wins and losses don't count but everything has context. Beating Roger at 25 is a whole different thing than the past 7-8 years. You all know how much we can't stand Nadal but even most Federer fans admit Rafa's wins over Roger were huge and they are probably the only real strike against him in his career. Obviously 2017 was great but it doesn't mean Roger has done anywhere near the damage to Nadal as vice versa.

These Djokovic arguments amuse me more than anything. I think Roger could come on court in a wheelchair and you guys would say he's better than ever and the loss would be a huge strike against him.

 

[Fiero425]

When the hell did I say Roger should retire because he's no longer in his prime?

And are we seriously comparing this to a position in a team sport that requires very little athleticism and endurance to be successful? Have you seen Brady and Manning run faster than a turtle?

I want you clowns to answer a couple questions. If you don't know the names of two tennis players but instead just know their ages (24 and 30) who do you expect to win? Current answer may actually be close but 7 years ago it was absolutely the 24 year old and we know sports and sports nutrition changes fast. And how about 31 and 37? Even today that is an easy answer.

The Fed haters like yourselves use his age against him. It's like Djoker and others hammering him means he was never any good because clearly at 37 he should still be as good as ever somehow. Roger just lost to Kevin Fucking Anderson and a Milkman in the last two majors.

No one says the wins and losses don't count but everything has context. Beating Roger at 25 is a whole different thing than the past 7-8 years. You all know how much we can't stand Nadal but even most Federer fans admit Rafa's wins over Roger were huge and they are probably the only real strike against him in his career. Obviously 2017 was great but it doesn't mean Roger has done anywhere near the damage to Nadal as vice versa.

These Djokovic arguments amuse me more than anything. I think Roger could come on court in a wheelchair and you guys would say he's better than ever and the loss would be a huge strike against him.

The reason your argument falls apart is because Murray's part of the Big 4 and no matter how old he gets, he still owned Murray; grass, HC, wherever! You don't have to be a Fed 'hatah' to suggest he bow out before embarrassing himself! It's getting there! True enough, it was worth hanging out until this season taking #20 "down under," but it took 5 years! He was dropping every major match against Nole & Rafa and it wasn't even close as time went on! Not many can or will do what Fed's done again; winning multiple majors and retaking #1 ranking! I blame it on the "Next Gen" being gutless and Djokovic/Murray out for significant periods in the last seasons! o_O

 

[Moxie]

Before embarrassing himself? Last I checked he won more Majors in the past 2 years than Djokovic. And I'm pretty sure it's not only because all of the other players in men's tennis suck.

 

[DarthFed]

The reason your argument falls apart is because Murray's part of the Big 4 and no matter how old he gets, he still owned Murray; grass, HC, wherever! You don't have to be a Fed 'hatah' to suggest he bow out before embarrassing himself! It's getting there! True enough, it was worth hanging out until this season taking #20 "down under," but it took 5 years! He was dropping every major match against Nole & Rafa and it wasn't even close as time went on! Not many can or will do what Fed's done again; winning multiple majors and retaking #1 ranking! I blame it on the "Next Gen" being gutless and Djokovic/Murray out for significant periods in the last seasons! o_O

So your evidence that Roger is still playing his best centers around his ability to beat Murray

How is it getting embarrassing for Roger when he's won 3 majors the past two years and got back to #1? I'd say that's embarrassing for Nadal and Djokovic. The gramps is stealing a lot of their thunder.

 

[Fiero425]

So your evidence that Roger is still playing his best centers around his ability to beat Murray

How is it getting embarrassing for Roger when he's won 3 majors the past two years and got back to #1? I'd say that's embarrassing for Nadal and Djokovic. The gramps is stealing a lot of their thunder.

I never said it WAS embarrassing! Just looking down the line; his play being abysmal the last few months! What do you want from me? o_O

 

[DarthFed]

I never said it WAS embarrassing! Just looking down the line; his play being abysmal the last few months! What do you want from me? o_O

I want you to stop clowning around my brotha from the South. You keep this up and your Cubs will have more bad karma like today

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Serena in her 30’s was as good as she was in her 20’s if not better. According to Federer fans logic, she should have been owned by younger players like Sharapova or Halep because of her age.

The point is it’s not a coincidence that Federer struggled in his career mainly with Nadal and Djokovic! It has everything to do with the greatness of these 2 then with his age and whatnot. He still won most of his matches against everyone else and he even said himself that he’s a better player than before. It’s just that Rafa and Nole are just very strong.

 

[Moxie]

Gonna bookmark this thread to bring up in a few years.

I thought you were marking it for posterity because I agreed with Ricardo. :lulz2:

 

[Moxie]

Serena in her 30’s was as good as she was in her 20’s if not better. According to Federer fans logic, she should have been owned by younger players like Sharapova or Halep because of her age.

The point is it’s not a coincidence that Federer struggled in his career mainly with Nadal and Djokovic! It has everything to do with the greatness of these 2 then with his age and whatnot. He still won most of his matches against everyone else and he even said himself that he’s a better player than before. It’s just that Rafa and Nole are just very strong.

I don't see why it's not both things. Surely they're all 3 great and have been huge competition for one another, but we can't pretend that age doesn't affect players, even if they just have to make adjustments to keep them playing at top level.

 

[Fiero425]

I want you to stop clowning around my brotha from the South. You keep this up and your Cubs will have more bad karma like today

Like I care! I'm a White Sox fan; cap, uniform, and free tickets I got for having perfect attendance in high school for 3 years! :whistle:

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I don't see why it's not both things. Surely they're all 3 great and have been huge competition for one another, but we can't pretend that age doesn't affect players, even if they just have to make adjustments to keep them playing at top level.

30 is the new 20. Things have changed.