No reason to be overly optimistic about Djokovic at Roland Garros.....

[tented]

that 2008 Dvd which was likely made by a Rafa fan, certainly wasnt due to Roger's level of play. It was due to it being such a dramatic match.

This has been your party-line for years. A match so great Wimbledon issued it on DVD, Jon Wertheim wrote a book about it, and a huge number of people consider it to be the greatest match ever played -- yet Roger wasn't playing well. :cover

There's no reason to think Rafa is completely incapable of sending a 2015 final to a 5th set even if he falls behind after a lifeless couple of sets.

Come on, Darth. Did you watch last year's final? Rafa could barely limp his way to the finish line in the fourth set, and got a lot of help from Djokovic to pull off the win -- including a DF on championship point.

Look, I know you and many others here hate Rafa with every fiber of your being, but let's be realistic. He will be 29-years-old if he even makes the final in Paris. He hasn't played a full season in years because his body is breaking down. He had to go five sets against Tim "Who?" Smyczek in AO, then promptly lost in straight sets in the next round to a guy he used to own. And you think this same player is going to have some miraculous five-set epic against the greatest returner on the tour?

Lol! Are we now saying Rafa was injured in the RG final last year? Oh my stars!

Did I write he was injured? No, I did not. Don't put words in my mouth.

No one is saying the scenario I outlined is probable. It's a hypothetical. If such a thing were to happen it would be an epic. For the life of me I can't understand why this is so hard to see. The parallel would be obvious if it came to pass. But I guess you Rafa-fans are so invested in your narrative for Rafa you can't even entertain the thought. Well good luck to you guys

Yes, you've repeatedly said it's hypothetical. I get it. Personally, I prefer a more reality-based approach to such speculation.

 

[britbox]

This. For all the talk of using your imagination, etc., the Fedfans may as well be saying, "Let's write a script for fantasy tennis -- reality be damned." Because that's what they're really talking about.

Rafa hasn't played at a level for years which could come close to this mythological great final they're imagining. It's as if they haven't even been watching tennis.

Seriously: Name the last match Rafa played which could be truly -- truly -- described as "great"? Something which would merit being put in a time capsule? Or issued on DVD because demand to see it repeatedly is so high?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

But now, all of a sudden, he's going to play at this level in Paris? Give me a break.

Rafa beat the same fella last year. It might be convenient to talk him down as chopped liver but he can still hit a bit - a lot actually. A Rafa-centric view might be that Djokovic ain't going to earn an FO title whether he wins it or not, downplaying expectations to the level that Nadal is playing "wheelchair tennis".

If Nadal makes the FO Final and meets Djokovic (assuming he gets there - not a given either BTW) then there is a hell of lot riding on the match including a career grand slam... and you can rest assured that he ain't playing wheelchair tennis if he makes the finals.

A great match is usually based on competition, not the level of one of the players.

Who says Djokovic wouldn't have earned it? No one I've read. Certainly not me. I think you're the only one. If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward.

Well you're certainly downplaying any potential achievement if he does happen to win it... Nadal hasn't played a great match in years (please !!) , he's playing wheelchair tennis and a potential matchup has little significance compared to 08.

 

[Fiero425]

This. For all the talk of using your imagination, etc., the Fedfans may as well be saying, "Let's write a script for fantasy tennis -- reality be damned." Because that's what they're really talking about.

Rafa hasn't played at a level for years which could come close to this mythological great final they're imagining. It's as if they haven't even been watching tennis.

Seriously: Name the last match Rafa played which could be truly -- truly -- described as "great"? Something which would merit being put in a time capsule? Or issued on DVD because demand to see it repeatedly is so high?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

But now, all of a sudden, he's going to play at this level in Paris? Give me a break.

Rafa beat the same fella last year. It might be convenient to talk him down as chopped liver but he can still hit a bit - a lot actually. A Rafa-centric view might be that Djokovic ain't going to earn an FO title whether he wins it or not, downplaying expectations to the level that Nadal is playing "wheelchair tennis".

If Nadal makes the FO Final and meets Djokovic (assuming he gets there - not a given either BTW) then there is a hell of lot riding on the match including a career grand slam... and you can rest assured that he ain't playing wheelchair tennis if he makes the finals.

A great match is usually based on competition, not the level of one of the players.

Who says Djokovic wouldn't have earned it? No one I've read. Certainly not me. I think you're the only one. If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward.

There it goes! This is what I expected; if Nole wins the FO, he won't have earned it! It would be more about Nadal not being competitive! Wow; it's coming down now and the tournament hasn't even begun! :nono :angel: :dodgy: :lolz:

 

[tented]

Rafa beat the same fella last year. It might be convenient to talk him down as chopped liver but he can still hit a bit - a lot actually. A Rafa-centric view might be that Djokovic ain't going to earn an FO title whether he wins it or not, downplaying expectations to the level that Nadal is playing "wheelchair tennis".

If Nadal makes the FO Final and meets Djokovic (assuming he gets there - not a given either BTW) then there is a hell of lot riding on the match including a career grand slam... and you can rest assured that he ain't playing wheelchair tennis if he makes the finals.

A great match is usually based on competition, not the level of one of the players.

Who says Djokovic wouldn't have earned it? No one I've read. Certainly not me. I think you're the only one. If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward.

Well you're certainly downplaying any potential achievement if he does happen to win it... Nadal hasn't played a great match in years (please !!) , he's playing wheelchair tennis and a potential matchup has little significance compared to 08.

Name great matches Rafa has played in the last couple of years. Not good matches, not OK matches, but truly great ones.

 

[britbox]

Great match or great performance... because there is a big difference. On the former it takes two to tango.

 

[tented]

Rafa beat the same fella last year. It might be convenient to talk him down as chopped liver but he can still hit a bit - a lot actually. A Rafa-centric view might be that Djokovic ain't going to earn an FO title whether he wins it or not, downplaying expectations to the level that Nadal is playing "wheelchair tennis".

If Nadal makes the FO Final and meets Djokovic (assuming he gets there - not a given either BTW) then there is a hell of lot riding on the match including a career grand slam... and you can rest assured that he ain't playing wheelchair tennis if he makes the finals.

A great match is usually based on competition, not the level of one of the players.

Who says Djokovic wouldn't have earned it? No one I've read. Certainly not me. I think you're the only one. If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward.

There it goes! This is what I expected; if Nole wins the FO, he won't have earned it! It would be more about Nadal not being competitive! Wow; it's coming down now and the tournament hasn't even begun! :nono :angel: :dodgy: :lolz:

Fiero, re-read my last two sentences: "If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward."

I can't make it any clearer than that.

I'm not in the camp who would do something like downgrade Roger's RG because he didn't beat Rafa in the final. Roger could only play who was across the net. He did, and he won. He earned it, he deserved it.

Regardless of who Novak does or doesn't play, should he win RG, he will have earned it. Period/full stop.

 

[tented]

Great match or great performance... because there is a big difference. On the former it takes two to tango.

LOL, I'm having a hard time coming up with an example of either. I think the 2013 RG semi was the last match Rafa played which approached greatness.

 

[britbox]

I thought he was outstanding throughout 2013.

 

[Fiero425]

Who says Djokovic wouldn't have earned it? No one I've read. Certainly not me. I think you're the only one. If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward.

There it goes! This is what I expected; if Nole wins the FO, he won't have earned it! It would be more about Nadal not being competitive! Wow; it's coming down now and the tournament hasn't even begun! :nono :angel: :dodgy: :lolz:

Fiero, re-read my last two sentences: "If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward."

I can't make it any clearer than that.

I'm not in the camp who would do something like downgrade Roger's RG because he didn't beat Rafa in the final. Roger could only play who was across the net. He did, and he won. He earned it, he deserved it.

Regardless of who Novak does or doesn't play, should he win RG, he will have earned it. Period/full stop.

I should have been more clear! I was just making you aware of it happening; not you actually believing it! :blush:

 

[tented]

I thought he was outstanding throughout 2013.

Yes, I agree, and that was his last year worth mentioning. Won IW. He played a great RG semi, and had a great run in the NA hard court season. But Wimbledon? Not so much. The end of year/indoor season? Typically poor results. Missed the AO.

 

[tented]

There it goes! This is what I expected; if Nole wins the FO, he won't have earned it! It would be more about Nadal not being competitive! Wow; it's coming down now and the tournament hasn't even begun! :nono :angel: :dodgy: :lolz:

Fiero, re-read my last two sentences: "If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward."

I can't make it any clearer than that.

I'm not in the camp who would do something like downgrade Roger's RG because he didn't beat Rafa in the final. Roger could only play who was across the net. He did, and he won. He earned it, he deserved it.

Regardless of who Novak does or doesn't play, should he win RG, he will have earned it. Period/full stop.

I should have been more clear! I was just making you aware of it happening; not you actually believing it! :blush:

It would be thrilling to have three active players who have all won career slams. First time ever, in the history of tennis? I think so.

Novak is already an all-time great. There's no question about that. He isn't in the upper tier, like Federer, Nadal, Sampras, Laver, but he's getting awfully close. In fact, obtaining the career slam would put him in that top tier, don't you think?

 

[Riotbeard]

Fiero, re-read my last two sentences: "If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward."

I can't make it any clearer than that.

I'm not in the camp who would do something like downgrade Roger's RG because he didn't beat Rafa in the final. Roger could only play who was across the net. He did, and he won. He earned it, he deserved it.

Regardless of who Novak does or doesn't play, should he win RG, he will have earned it. Period/full stop.

I should have been more clear! I was just making you aware of it happening; not you actually believing it! :blush:

It would be thrilling to have three active players who have all won career slams. First time ever, in the history of tennis? I think so.

Novak is already an all-time great. There's no question about that. He isn't in the upper tier, like Federer, Nadal, Sampras, Laver, but he's getting awfully close. In fact, obtaining the career slam would put him in that top tier, don't you think?

Career slam, double digit slams , would certainly put him in that conversation. Definitely would put him up around borg. 12+ slams, definitely in that tier.

 

[britbox]

I thought he was outstanding throughout 2013.

Yes, I agree, and that was his last year worth mentioning. Won IW. He played a great RG semi, and had a great run in the NA hard court season. But Wimbledon? Not so much. The end of year/indoor season? Typically poor results. Missed the AO.

Any year a player grabs a big one (A slam) is worth mentioning and mentioning loudly. Outside of a select few, Nadal's 2014 would have been classed as a career year.

Fans of the big 3 - Fed, Djoker and Nadal have such high expectations based on previous success then a superb year by any standard other than their own gets downgraded to a "so so" year.

Nadal is past his best... but he's definitely a live candidate for Roland Garros.

 

[Fiero425]

Fiero, re-read my last two sentences: "If Novak wins it, he will have earned it. That's straightforward."

I can't make it any clearer than that.

I'm not in the camp who would do something like downgrade Roger's RG because he didn't beat Rafa in the final. Roger could only play who was across the net. He did, and he won. He earned it, he deserved it.

Regardless of who Novak does or doesn't play, should he win RG, he will have earned it. Period/full stop.

I should have been more clear! I was just making you aware of it happening; not you actually believing it! :blush:

It would be thrilling to have three active players who have all won career slams. First time ever, in the history of tennis? I think so.

Novak is already an all-time great. There's no question about that. He isn't in the upper tier, like Federer, Nadal, Sampras, Laver, but he's getting awfully close. In fact, obtaining the career slam would put him in that top tier, don't you think?

I already have in anticipation of Nole taking a few more majors and getting close to Sampras' weeks at #1! IMO, even if he didn't take a FO, he'll make the top tier with all those Masters' wins! People were willing to overlook Sampras not even making a FO final, much less win one and he was still proclaimed the GOAT for a while! Since Rafa, Roger, & Nole's eras, I've dropped Sampras behind Laver again who would have had more titles but for Amateur rules! He's still above Emerson though!

 

[britbox]

I should have been more clear! I was just making you aware of it happening; not you actually believing it! :blush:

It would be thrilling to have three active players who have all won career slams. First time ever, in the history of tennis? I think so.

Novak is already an all-time great. There's no question about that. He isn't in the upper tier, like Federer, Nadal, Sampras, Laver, but he's getting awfully close. In fact, obtaining the career slam would put him in that top tier, don't you think?

I already have in anticipation of Nole taking a few more majors and getting close to Sampras' weeks at #1! IMO, even if he didn't take a FO, he'll make the top tier with all those Masters' wins! People were willing to overlook Sampras even making a FO final, much less win one and he was still proclaimed the GOAT for a while! Since Rafa, Roger, & Nole's eras, I've dropped Sampras behind Laver again who would have had more titles but for Amateur rules! He's still above Emerson though!

Pete never made an FO final. Personally I never regarded him as the GOAT in any event and you're right about Emerson - he'd wouldn't make my Top 20.

 

[tented]

Fans of the big 3 - Fed, Djoker and Nadal have such high expectations based on previous success then a superb year by any standard other than their own gets downgraded to a "so so" year.

That's a great point. Their streaks of absolute brilliance make what would be great years to the rest of the field seem dim in comparison.

Nadal is past his best... but he's definitely a live candidate for Roland Garros.

You have more faith in him than I do, my friend.

 

[tented]

It would be thrilling to have three active players who have all won career slams. First time ever, in the history of tennis? I think so.

Novak is already an all-time great. There's no question about that. He isn't in the upper tier, like Federer, Nadal, Sampras, Laver, but he's getting awfully close. In fact, obtaining the career slam would put him in that top tier, don't you think?

I already have in anticipation of Nole taking a few more majors and getting close to Sampras' weeks at #1! IMO, even if he didn't take a FO, he'll make the top tier with all those Masters' wins! People were willing to overlook Sampras even making a FO final, much less win one and he was still proclaimed the GOAT for a while! Since Rafa, Roger, & Nole's eras, I've dropped Sampras behind Laver again who would have had more titles but for Amateur rules! He's still above Emerson though!

Pete never made an FO final. Personally I never regarded him as the GOAT in any event and you're right about Emerson - he'd wouldn't make my Top 20.

I think Fiero meant "... overlook Sampras not even making a FO final ..." but accidentally omitted the word "not".

 

[britbox]

Fans of the big 3 - Fed, Djoker and Nadal have such high expectations based on previous success then a superb year by any standard other than their own gets downgraded to a "so so" year.

That's a great point. Their streaks of absolute brilliance make what would be great years to the rest of the field seem dim in comparison.

Nadal is past his best... but he's definitely a live candidate for Roland Garros.

You have more faith in him than I do, my friend.

I'm not predicting he'll win it, but he obviously knows how too! I'd still have him as second favourite right now and what happens before then will be interesting for sure.

 

[Federberg]

This has been your party-line for years. A match so great Wimbledon issued it on DVD, Jon Wertheim wrote a book about it, and a huge number of people consider it to be the greatest match ever played -- yet Roger wasn't playing well. :cover


Come on, Darth. Did you watch last year's final? Rafa could barely limp his way to the finish line in the fourth set, and got a lot of help from Djokovic to pull off the win -- including a DF on championship point.

Look, I know you and many others here hate Rafa with every fiber of your being, but let's be realistic. He will be 29-years-old if he even makes the final in Paris. He hasn't played a full season in years because his body is breaking down. He had to go five sets against Tim "Who?" Smyczek in AO, then promptly lost in straight sets in the next round to a guy he used to own. And you think this same player is going to have some miraculous five-set epic against the greatest returner on the tour?

Lol! Are we now saying Rafa was injured in the RG final last year? Oh my stars!

Did I write he was injured? No, I did not. Don't put words in my mouth.

No one is saying the scenario I outlined is probable. It's a hypothetical. If such a thing were to happen it would be an epic. For the life of me I can't understand why this is so hard to see. The parallel would be obvious if it came to pass. But I guess you Rafa-fans are so invested in your narrative for Rafa you can't even entertain the thought. Well good luck to you guys

Yes, you've repeatedly said it's hypothetical. I get it. Personally, I prefer a more reality-based approach to such speculation.

With all due respect, I NEVER speculated about this. I merely expressed a hope. Which is precisely why I was so amazed by the reaction. Or do we now live in a bizarro world where people are not allowed to express desires... however unlikely??

 

[Fiero425]

I already have in anticipation of Nole taking a few more majors and getting close to Sampras' weeks at #1! IMO, even if he didn't take a FO, he'll make the top tier with all those Masters' wins! People were willing to overlook Sampras even making a FO final, much less win one and he was still proclaimed the GOAT for a while! Since Rafa, Roger, & Nole's eras, I've dropped Sampras behind Laver again who would have had more titles but for Amateur rules! He's still above Emerson though!

Pete never made an FO final. Personally I never regarded him as the GOAT in any event and you're right about Emerson - he'd wouldn't make my Top 20.

I think Fiero meant "... overlook Sampras not even making a FO final ..." but accidentally omitted the word "not".

I do that a lot; typing 100 mph I'll forget or omit a contraction of "n't" or add "not!" Thanks!