Nitto ATP Finals 2024, Turin, Italy

[Fiero425]

To be fair to Rafa, he came close to winning it a couple times, and went deep four more...two Finals, four Semifinals. He even beat Roger in the 2013 SF. Meaning, he wasn't a pushover at the Tour Finals, he just never won it.

Fun fact: Roger, Rafa, and Novak all lost 18 career matches at the Tour Finals, though with rather different resumes:

Rafa: 11 events, 21-18 (53.8%), 2 finals, 3 semifinals
Novak: 16 events, 51-18 (73.9%), 7 titles, 2 finals, 3 semifinals
Roger: 17 events, 59-18 (76.6%), 6 titles, 4 finals, 6 semifinals
Andy: `8 events, 15-12 (55.6%), 1 title, 3 semifinals

Kind of crazy that in 17 events, Roger didn't make the SF only once - all thanks to losing to Andy Murray and Gilles Simon in 2008.

Roger played longer w/ a weaker tour 20 yrs. ago & I thought w/ his leads in records that he w/b immortalized! He's on a pedestal, but his #'s have been wiped out by 2 players, not just the one! I SMH every time I look at the totals where Djokovic not only surpassed Roger, he obliterated him! The YE #1 alone is a marvel! Connors held it artifically for 5 straight yrs.! When the Big 3 matched it, Novak added 3 more as an old guy! Who would have thought it possible? I really expected Roger to be the king of the indoor chp.. YEC, & held the record w/ 6 for a while! Again I thought his name would hold up, but out of nowhere, & unable to win since 2015, Djokovic again did his thing in the twilight of his career, taking 2 more to now having 7 Tour Chp.! I guess Roger's been lucky that Alcaraz came along to stop Novak's run at Wimbledon @ 7 so he'll probably hold the Wimbledon record for men at 8, but you never know w/ The Real GOAT!

 

[tented]

 

[mrzz]

Roger played longer w/ a weaker tour 20 yrs.

10 years reading this BS... But not just from you, don't worry.

Anyway, Fritz making a match out of it, as I expected.

 

[Moxie]

10 years reading this BS... But not just from you, don't worry.

Anyway, Fritz making a match out of it, as I expected.

And he pulls off the upset in the TB!

 

[El Dude]

Wow, that was a surprise (to me). Fritz will be rooting hard for Ruud...

 

[El Dude]

Roger played longer w/ a weaker tour 20 yrs. ago & I thought w/ his leads in records that he w/b immortalized! He's on a pedestal, but his #'s have been wiped out by 2 players, not just the one! I SMH every time I look at the totals where Djokovic not only surpassed Roger, he obliterated him! The YE #1 alone is a marvel! Connors held it artifically for 5 straight yrs.! When the Big 3 matched it, Novak added 3 more as an old guy! Who would have thought it possible? I really expected Roger to be the king of the indoor chp.. YEC, & held the record w/ 6 for a while! Again I thought his name would hold up, but out of nowhere, & unable to win since 2015, Djokovic again did his thing in the twilight of his career, taking 2 more to now having 7 Tour Chp.! I guess Roger's been lucky that Alcaraz came along to stop Novak's run at Wimbledon @ 7 so he'll probably hold the Wimbledon record for men at 8, but you never know w/ The Real GOAT!

You'll have no argument that Novak is the GOAT...if anyone deserves the title it is him (or Laver). But...your hyperbolic dismissal of Roger (or usually, Rafa) is just absurd. "Roger is on a pedestal - he is, at worst, one of the four greatest players in tennis history. His name does "hold up." As I've criticized you for before, you share this attitude that if you're not the very best in all possible ways, you basically suck or are tarnished. Etc, etc.

In other words, the Fiero attitude is:

Peak Borg, Novak = good
Everyone else = sucks

 

[Fiero425]

You'll have no argument that Novak is the GOAT...if anyone deserves the title it is him (or Laver). But...your hyperbolic dismissal of Roger (or usually, Rafa) is just absurd. "Roger is on a pedestal - he is, at worst, one of the four greatest players in tennis history. His name does "hold up." As I've criticized you for before, you share this attitude that if you're not the very best in all possible ways, you basically suck or are tarnished. Etc, etc.

In other words, the Fiero attitude is:

Peak Borg, Novak = good
Everyone else = sucks

Yep! That's about right! I told you I was a huge fan of Federer! He was anointed The GOAT in 2009 after his win at Wimbledon over Roddick for the 4th time IIRC! That gave him 15 majors, 1 more than Sampras! Poor Andy had that match w/ multiple set pts. to go up 2 sets to Luv! He blew that high BH volley in the TB & gave Roger life! If you consider A-Rod his best rival at the time, it's perfectly valid for me to critique his comp.! You & I were probably giving him cover when destroyed on clay by Rafa; esp. in those FO finals! He's still one of the greatest, but he's still owned by 2 other players! No doubt about that as they got where they are in less time, overcoming the Lost I, II, & Next Gen. of players! Borg will always stand out due to getting to double digits in majors 1st in the Pro Era! Novak just owns the other records & adding to them all the time!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Finally able to post due to a severe thunderstorm that blacked out just after the first SF

Its funny how Zverev has seemingly established himself as 'by far' the biggest threat to Alcaraz and Sinner among all of the original Next Gen players yet he keep struggling immensely against fellow "Next Genners"
Since 2019 he is,
5-9 vs Tstsipas
3-12 vs Medvedev
3-7 vs Fritz
BTW Fritz becomes the first American finalist since James Blake in 2006. Fritz has now won his last 4 matches against Zverev.
Fritz moves up to a career high of 4th in live rankings. He will stay there unless Ruud wins the title.He passes Medvedev

 

[Kieran]

Yep! That's about right! I told you I was a huge fan of Federer! He was anointed The GOAT in 2009 after his win at Wimbledon over Roddick for the 4th time IIRC! That gave him 15 majors, 1 more than Sampras! Poor Andy had that match w/ multiple set pts. to go up 2 sets to Luv! He blew that high BH volley in the TB & gave Roger life! If you consider A-Rod his best rival at the time, it's perfectly valid for me to critique his comp.! You & I were probably giving him cover when destroyed on clay by Rafa; esp. in those FO finals! He's still one of the greatest, but he's still owned by 2 other players! No doubt about that as they got where they are in less time, overcoming the Lost I, II, & Next Gen. of players! Borg will always stand out due to getting to double digits in majors 1st in the Pro Era! Novak just owns the other records & adding to them all the time!

Roger is hardly “owned by 2 other players.” The difference between him and Novak is 4 wins out of 50 matches, is it? Novak being fortunate enough to peak last out of the Big 3 (despite being only a year younger than Rafa) and therefore take the opportunity to hoover some cheap slams and W’s while the other two felt the effects of fighting a much longer war…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Sinner d Ruud 61 62
Reaches ATP final for the 2nd time in his career, without dropping a set
10th straight win
69-6 in 2024
16 Top Ten win of 2024!

 

[Moxie]

Finally able to post due to a severe thunderstorm that blacked out just after the first SF

Its funny how Zverev has seemingly established himself as 'by far' the biggest threat to Alcaraz and Sinner among all of the original Next Gen players yet he keep struggling immensely against fellow "Next Genners"
Since 2019 he is,
5-9 vs Tstsipas
3-12 vs Medvedev
3-7 vs Fritz
BTW Fritz becomes the first American finalist since James Blake in 2006. Fritz has now won his last 4 matches against Zverev.
Fritz moves up to a career high of 4th in live rankings. He will stay there unless Ruud wins the title.He passes Medvedev

This is very interesting. I was surprised when they talked about the h2h during today's match.

Obviously, Sinner is the man to beat tomorrow, and he'll have the crowd. But Fritz surprised us today.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This is very interesting. I was surprised when they talked about the h2h during today's match.

Obviously, Sinner is the man to beat tomorrow, and he'll have the crowd. But Fritz surprised us today.

What impressed me with Fritz was how good his fhand was in the match and his serve and he remained focused all match

 

[tented]

 

[tented]

Its funny how Zverev has seemingly established himself as 'by far' the biggest threat to Alcaraz and Sinner among all of the original Next Gen players yet he keep struggling immensely against fellow "Next Genners"
Since 2019 he is,
5-9 vs Tstsipas
3-12 vs Medvedev
3-7 vs Fritz

 

[Jelenafan]

As a stats person that I am, Zverev fascinates me because he hasn't slipped off & declined like his fellow ( & younger) crown prince Tsitsipas yet still can’t seem to reach the brass ring of a Grand Slam title.

IIRC El Dude said he’s the probably the best player in the Open Era not to win a Grand Slam (so far)

Some notes:

2 Grand Slam finals (losing both after leading 2-0 & 2-1 in sets)
Top 10 YE ranking 7 out of last 8 years
YE ranking top 4 - 4 years
Olympic Gold Medal
ATP YE champ - 2 years
12 Masters finals, 7 Masters titles

Seriously those are some impressive numbers. Now I will never be a Zverev fan, he strikes me as a petulant entitled A-hole, but as a numbers person it’s an interesting journey to watch if he collects more hardware but not a Grand Slam.

 

[mrzz]

In yesterday's match Zverev missed some routine backhands that he doesn't usually misses, a few of them in important points. Apart from that, he was the better player in court (I guess he said something along those lines himself).

But, those basic mistakes are exactly what great players must learn to keep out of their games.

 

[El Dude]

IIRC El Dude said he’s the probably the best player in the Open Era not to win a Grand Slam (so far)

Yep - though with the clarification that by "best" I mean most accomplished in terms of career resume, not necessarily peak level. That's more subjective, and I think you'd have to consider guys like Mecir, Rios, Nalbandian, etc. But Zverev's resume is better than any other non-Slam winner, and better than quite a number of 1-3 Slam winners.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Sinner d Fritz 64 64
Sinner becomes the 1at man to win ATP Finals without dropping a set since Lendl in 1986
Sinner didnt drop more than 4 games in any set he played this week.
Sinner wins his 8th title in 2024 Sinner 70-6 in 2024.Sinner is the first Italian man in history to win the ATP Finals
Well done!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Official from Andrea Gaudenzi the ATP Finals will stay in Italy for another 5 years, until 2030. Didn't specify that the event will be staying in Turin, though its possible other cities will get a bid.

 

[Kieran]

Sinner is the man of the year, a great season. I still think Alcaraz is the better player but he scheduled poorly and suffered for it. Sinner was wise, and brilliant…