Nitto ATP Finals 2023, Turin, Italy

[Moxie]

Rune will NEVER win a slam if he doesn’t get better conditioning. Excellent athlete, excellent shotmaker, no stamina.

He's 20. I do think that will improve. Especially if he's such an "excellent athlete," right?

 

[El Dude]

Yup, year-end #1 and he's going to reach 400 weeks in two weeks (he's at 398 now...I assume that isn't projected out until AO).

 

[nehmeth]

He's 20. I do think that will improve. Especially if he's such an "excellent athlete," right?

No shit. I said ”IF” he doesn’t get better conditioning.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I have to agree with Jim Courier, said Rune should not be struggling physically in every match he plays that goes over 2 hours especially indoors. Needs to be fixed in the short off season which will be a challenge

 

[El Dude]

I'm not too worried about Rune. So much talent and I love his fire. I suppose he could go the way of Tsitsipas and entitle himself into perennial 2nd tier status, but I'll reserve judgement on that for another couple years. I don't necessarily predict he'll win a Slam next year, but he'll gobble up a handful of titles and be primed for 2025 (or maybe a late Slam in 2024, depending how the year goes).

 

[nehmeth]

I have to agree with Jim Courier, said Rune should not be struggling physically in every match he plays that goes over 2 hours especially indoors. Needs to be fixed in the short off season which will be a challenge

He stood toe to toe with the best for two sets. At the one point they were tied at 75 points each. And then? He’s too good to not make this his focus. He finds someone who’s really good in the short off season and they help him work his way into form by the French or Wimbo and he will be a force.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

He stood toe to toe with the best for two sets. At the one point they were tied at 75 points each. And then? He’s too good to not make this his focus. He finds someone who’s really good in the short off season and they help him work his way into form by the French or Wimbo and he will be a force.

I totally agree, he has a a great game and has 'fire in his belly' doesnt take a backward step, when playing top players eg Novak, this area in his game can be improved.

 

[Moxie]

I'm not too worried about Rune. So much talent and I love his fire. I suppose he could go the way of Tsitsipas and entitle himself into perennial 2nd tier status, but I'll reserve judgement on that for another couple years. I don't necessarily predict he'll win a Slam next year, but he'll gobble up a handful of titles and be primed for 2025 (or maybe a late Slam in 2024, depending how the year goes).

I don't see him going the way of a Tsitsipas, (or, worse, a Dimitrov.) I think he has too much fire, too much spite and malice. Remember, he was a junior with Alcaraz, so the sense of competition there seems set. Plus, The Deathless One won't play forever.

Frankly, I still hope Tsitsipas doesn't go the way of Tsitsipas. Nobody did him any favors labeling him "The Greek God" before he deserved it. If he can get over his sense of entitlement, work with his talent, and put on his big boy pants, maybe he could yet make something of himself.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Outside of the Alcaraz - Rublev match (never met before), I am very curious about the Djokovic - Sinner match on Tuesday. I expect Djokovic to win, but I am curious to see if Sinner can make it competitive 3-setter match.

 

[Moxie]

Outside of the Alcaraz - Rublev match (never met before), I am very curious about the Djokovic - Sinner match on Tuesday. I expect Djokovic to win, but I am curious to see if Sinner can make it competitive 3-setter match.

I know you're a Sinner fan. He looked pretty dialed in today, especially on the serve. He'll need that. Whereas Djokovic looked vulnerable. Could be that Rune troubles him a bit, and he had in his mind about the YE#1, so he may just play freely from here on out. But I'd give Sinner more than a punter's chance.

I'm curious about how Alcaraz will show up. (Did not know he'd never played Rublev. That will be interesting. Rublev on form, Alcaraz not so much.)

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Order of play,
Singles Monday 13th November,

Not before 2.30pm,
C.Alcaraz (2) vs A. Zverev (7) H2H 3 all

Not before 9.00pm,
D.Medvedev (3) vs A. Rublev (5) H2H Medvedev 7-2

 

[El Dude]

I don't see him going the way of a Tsitsipas, (or, worse, a Dimitrov.) I think he has too much fire, too much spite and malice. Remember, he was a junior with Alcaraz, so the sense of competition there seems set. Plus, The Deathless One won't play forever.

Frankly, I still hope Tsitsipas doesn't go the way of Tsitsipas. Nobody did him any favors labeling him "The Greek God" before he deserved it. If he can get over his sense of entitlement, work with his talent, and put on his big boy pants, maybe he could yet make something of himself.

He's still just 25, but...he's also 25 now. The clock is ticking. At this point, though, I think a second Slam for Medvedev is more likely than a first for Tsitsipas or Zverev. And I'd say Sinner has leap-frogged those two in the first Slam queue, with Rune closing in. I might even give Rublev a better chance, even if I don't think his game suits a Slam win as well as Tsitsipas or Zverev when they're playing well.

Time hasn't run out for either, of course, but if you dial back to 2019, it is pretty disappointing where they both are now. I'm pretty certain that if you told their 2019 selves that they wouldn't have a Slam title by the end of 2023, both would be pretty upset about it.

 

[Moxie]

He's still just 25, but...he's also 25 now. The clock is ticking. At this point, though, I think a second Slam for Medvedev is more likely than a first for Tsitsipas or Zverev. And I'd say Sinner has leap-frogged those two in the first Slam queue, with Rune closing in. I might even give Rublev a better chance, even if I don't think his game suits a Slam win as well as Tsitsipas or Zverev when they're playing well.

Time hasn't run out for either, of course, but if you dial back to 2019, it is pretty disappointing where they both are now. I'm pretty certain that if you told their 2019 selves that they wouldn't have a Slam title by the end of 2023, both would be pretty upset about it.

I totally hear you on Tsitsipas. He's only 25, but he's 25. I absolutely think that Medvedev has a second slam in him before either the Greek or Zverev. And yes, I do think Sinner has jumped the queue.

Tsitsipas and Zverev may do better once Novak has run his course, but I still have my doubts. It will be a bit of a scrum once Novak (and Rafa) are finally out, but competitiveness and grit will go a long way, and neither of those two impress me there. If they base it on their talents, they'll keep losing. Alcaraz is at least as talented, and far more committed. Sinner and Rune seem to me to be both equally as talented, and grittier. Plus, Sinner, Rune and Alcaraz are still improving. Tsitsipas and Zverev have very little room for improving their games, or fitness. I will be interested to see if they commit themselves.

Not to dismiss Medvedev and Rublev. I like Meddie for at least another Slam. But like you, I'm not sure about Rublev. You might find this odd, but I find him more of a Ferrer type. Or maybe Berdych is a better comparison.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Rune's good, but he's still got a lot to learn.

Good point . .I'm sorry extremely excellent point by you Sis @Moxie . Holger's talent is at the highest level meaning he has mastered every stroke in the game.Holger's only weakness is he young genius whereas , McEnroe, Borg , Boris Becker, Wilander, Sampras, Rafa, Boris and Carlos were very mature as teenagers. E.g. Holger Rune can execute any shot but his shot selection goes walkabout unlike Rafa who I have NEVER seen take a point off. Holger's game at times is a very difficult matchup for Novak but his mental focus hurts him during critical points in the match. Too bad the guy is so freaking talented but his mind is too young.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Good point . .I'm sorry extremely excellent point by you Sis @Moxie . Holger's talent is at the highest level meaning he has mastered every stroke in the game.Holger's only weakness is he young genius whereas , McEnroe, Borg , Boris Becker, Wilander, Sampras, Rafa, Boris and Carlos were very mature as teenagers. E.g. Holger Rune can execute any shot but his shot selection goes walkabout unlike Rafa who I have NEVER seen take a point off. Holger's game at times is a very difficult matchup for Novak but his mental focus hurts him during critical points in the match. Too bad the guy is so freaking talented but his mind is too young.

I take your point witn Holger, with his shot selection as I also feel the same, and have said before when watching his matches, probably a focus dip in concentration, remember he is 20 years old, I feel he can improve in that area, he has time on his side., also he needs to improve his staying ability on court in 3 set matches, also at GS level

 

[Moxie]

Good point . .I'm sorry extremely excellent point by you Sis @Moxie . Holger's talent is at the highest level meaning he has mastered every stroke in the game.Holger's only weakness is he young genius whereas , McEnroe, Borg , Boris Becker, Wilander, Sampras, Rafa, Boris and Carlos were very mature as teenagers. E.g. Holger Rune can execute any shot but his shot selection goes walkabout unlike Rafa who I have NEVER seen take a point off. Holger's game at times is a very difficult matchup for Novak but his mental focus hurts him during critical points in the match. Too bad the guy is so freaking talented but his mind is too young.

There was a shot that he should have hit, and he let it go. That was a brain fart. There are times when he goes in when he shouldn't. He can hit stunning winners, but he has to learn how to play against the best. He needs patience, and game IQ. He won points he shouldn't have, but he lost points he shouldn't have, too.

 

[Moxie]

Such a hilarious point from Alcaraz there! He's down the early break, still playing patchy tennis.

 

[nehmeth]

One set a piece. Now it’s time for Carlos to get the early break and ride it out on his serve.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Zverev serving for the match! BTW I am certain there are Barber's in Turin, your head needs a cut ASAP.

 

[nehmeth]

Zverev serving for the match! BTW I am certain there are Barber's in Turin, your head needs a cut ASAP.

On the verge of going Rastafarian - it will be turning into dreadlocks if he doesn’t do something quickly.