Nitto ATP Finals 2023, Turin, Italy

[MargaretMcAleer]

I don’t think anyone has definitely qualified for the semis, based on the info on the ATP site and Wikipedia.

Oh I thought Meddy had to win today in straight sets to qualify for the SFs, okay I am now confused.Thanks

 

[tented]

Oh I thought Meddy had to win today in straight sets to qualify for the SFs, okay I am now confused.Thanks

This is how the draw currently looks on Wikipedia, and the people who update that site are fanatics who often provide updates faster than the ATP themselves.

 

[Moxie]

Goodness , i get back home from traveling abroad just to find the ATP finals embroiled in dejah vuh Round robin messiness, LOL. The format is what it is, which going back to the Connors/Borg/Lendl days in the YE Grand Prix Masters (same format) has elicited “unfair” exclusions.

As inherently flawed as RR can be, its a viable way to get a full week of “real tournament” play with only 8 players. So no matter the tie breaker used, bumping someone when 3 players have identical W-L records sucks.

As much as Tsitsipas is not my fave, I am forced to defend him a bit here. IMO playing and then retiring after only 3 games wasn’t some planned or wimpy action.

Wasn’t it just 2022 Indian Wells that Taylor Fritz curtailed his practice session due to injury and his own team advised him not to play the finals versus Nadal? Fritz on a hope and a prayer wanted to give it a shot, the adrenaline kicked in and well we know how that turned out. So I can’t fault Stefano for attempting to play, and as Rune rightly pointed out, only the player knows how the body will respond at that moment. The 3 games played result was unfortunate, but again, injuries. : (

Plus Stefano saying this tournament meant more to him than any other? Well yeah, emotionally that makes sense because the ATP YE finals remains the biggest win ever of Stefano’s career. Of course your “first” has a special place in your heart.
The sky is falling as I’m now the Tsitsipas pro bono defender, LOL.

Welcome back! You're forgiven for defending Tsitsipas's choice to play. @MargaretMcAleer also said she'd give him the benefit of the doubt. And your Taylor Fritz example is not misplaced. Tennis players try to be optimistic about their chances, and their bodies. Plus, walkovers and retirements do happen. @nehmeth suggested that Rune should have still played Hurkacz, but I don't see how that would have worked. There is no precedence for throwing in a player to substitute another, mid-match. Or what? Just come back an hour later and start all over again? The vagaries and weirdness of the RR format.

 

[Moxie]

For some reason, Rublev kind of reminds me of Berdych. Booming power, somewhat one-dimensional game (and I think Berdych had more dimensions). A guy who seems to always be around, but not win Slams.

For whatever reason, Berdych went deeper in Slams: he reached a final and 6 other semifinals, along with 10 other quarterfinals. Rublev, on the other hand, has never made it past the quarterfinals (9 times, including 5 out of the last 6 Slams he's played in). Not sure what is, but he can't get past that QF hump...yet.

One thing to note is that Rublev just turned 26, so 2023 was basically his age 25 season. Berdych turned 26 in late 2011, so that would be the equivalent, age-wise. At that point, Berdych had one F, 1 SF, and 2 QF...meaning only 4 times to the QF vs. Rublev's 9 times. But Berdych didn't really reach his peak form until around the same age as Rublev over the last year or two, and was solidly good into his early 30s with lots of SF chances after Rublev's current age. I expect that he'll have some SF appearances, and maybe a Final or two. But he's definitely pretty much the definition of "second tier" player at this point - ala Berdych and Tsonga.

Interesting comparison. Rublev certainly needs to work on his second serve, and probably add some dimension, if he can. But he won't be playing in the era of the Big 2/3 much longer, and may yet find his lane. I find his game hard to love, and his antics even less so, but somehow I pull for him to do better. But yes, he may fall into the always-a-bridesmaid category, without more dimension, and a better second-serve, especially if he's going to rely on hitting big.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Welcome back! You're forgiven for defending Tsitsipas's choice to play. @MargaretMcAleer also said she'd give him the benefit of the doubt. And your Taylor Fritz example is not misplaced. Tennis players try to be optimistic about their chances, and their bodies. Plus, walkovers and retirements do happen. @nehmeth suggested that Rune should have still played Hurkacz, but I don't see how that would have worked. There is no precedence for throwing in a player to substitute another, mid-match. Or what? Just come back an hour later and start all over again? The vagaries and weirdness of the RR format.

I did give him the benefit of the doubt still having a 'back edema' since Shanghai, I cannot believe a doctor giving him the go ahead in practice/warm up with a back edema to play?( I have had edema's and the swelling takes time to disperse, with the fluid content,} well he did not last long in his match against Rune did he?

 

[rafanoy1992]

Man, Zverev's FH on the important points in both sets today was the definition of anti-clutch! Holy cow, he hit some terrible FH UFEs in those moments especially in the 1st set tiebreaker.

 

[tented]

 

[tossip]

My gift to you @tossip :

View attachment 8943

Lol..very nutty

 

[lomaha]

Welcome back! You're forgiven for defending Tsitsipas's choice to play. @MargaretMcAleer also said she'd give him the benefit of the doubt. And your Taylor Fritz example is not misplaced. Tennis players try to be optimistic about their chances, and their bodies. Plus, walkovers and retirements do happen. @nehmeth suggested that Rune should have still played Hurkacz, but I don't see how that would have worked. There is no precedence for throwing in a player to substitute another, mid-match. Or what? Just come back an hour later and start all over again? The vagaries and weirdness of the RR format.

Holger offered to play against Hurkacz but the referees said he couldn't.

 

[lomaha]

Med is qualified. We just don't know if it's as nr 1 or 2

 

[tented]

Lol..very nutty

Indeed. I thought it was worth making a new gif using yesterday’s match, as you suggested.

 

[tossip]

Indeed. I thought it was worth making a new gif using yesterday’s match, as you suggested.

Thanks Tented..lol just couldn't stop laughing and can see him bawling and tearing up the locker room after the match.He is a menace for sure and needs help.

 

[tented]

Thanks Tented..lol just couldn't stop laughing and can see him bawling and tearing up the locker room after the match.He is a menace for sure and needs help.

You’re exactly right. While it can be slightly entertaining for a moment to watch Rublev do this, it’s a sign of deeper problems to engage in such blatantly nonconstructive self-harm. Serena, Roger, Rafa, Martina, etc didn’t achieve such great successes through imbecilic harmful behavior.

 

[PhiEaglesfan712]

Truly unwatchable! As much as I need to appreciate the play of Medvedev, I feel like calling him "The Octopus" w/ those flailing limbs going everywhere! It's just not pretty to watch! Who's game is outside of Carlito's? These days most of the guys are just trying to tear the cover off the ball! Others like Rublev & Ruud just try to hang in there hoping for an UFE! You see where Ruud's going now that he's over his 2 year "heater!" Novak's game has had nuanced upgrades so I can watch him unless Rafa comes back to challenge him as Nadal "digs out" ball after ball!

You'll love Ben Shelton. Watch the matches against Tommy Paul, Frances Tiafoe, and Novak Djokovic at the US Open, and you'll see why he is destined for greatness. You can see the improvement in his level of play with each and every match. Next year, don't be surprised if Shelton is in the Top 5 of the world rankings and contending at the slams.

 

[tossip]

You'll love Ben Shelton. Watch the matches against Tommy Paul, Frances Tiafoe, and Novak Djokovic at the US Open, and you'll see why he is destined for greatness. You can see the improvement in his level of play with each and every match. Next year, don't be surprised if Shelton is in the Top 5 of the world rankings and contending at the slams.

Shelton needs to be humble for someone who is new on tour,and his celebrations are cringey to say the least.He is the Blake Griffin of the tennis world.He is like a frat boy and behaves just like Roddick when he came on tour.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Shelton needs to be humble for someone who is new on tour,and his celebrations are cringey to say the least.He is the Blake Griffin of the tennis world.He is like a frat boy and behaves just like Roddick when he came on tour.

I like Ben but not as much as Sinner, Calitos, Holger or Meddy. I think a real steady player can break Ben down and his risk game may be difficult to last an entire Grand slam fortnight.

 

[Moxie]

You’re exactly right. While it can be slightly entertaining for a moment to watch Rublev do this, it’s a sign of deeper problems to engage in such blatantly nonconstructive self-harm. Serena, Roger, Rafa, Martina, etc didn’t achieve such great successes through imbecilic harmful behavior.

He shocked Nick Kyrgios with that, who was commentated for tc yesterday, so that is saying something. BTW, Nick insists that he breaks few racquets now, and that he's a better "role model."

 

[Moxie]

Hurkacz wins the 2nd set, having held onto his break advantage by his fingernails (and serve) at 4-3. This puts Sinner in the SFs, and complicates things for Novak.

 

[atttomole]

If the US Open or the Australian Open were as fast as this court, Federer could have retired a couple of years later. He could have won more slams with his B game on this surface.

 

[don_fabio]

Hurkacz wins the 2nd set, having held onto his break advantage by his fingernails (and serve) at 4-3. This puts Sinner in the SFs, and complicates things for Novak.

Hubi is making Novak very uncomfortable, he struggles to return his serve. It was obvious during their match in Wimbledon, if Hubbi stayed more focused could have won 1st and 2set in TB and possibly make a huge upset.

I'm not watching, but checking on the scores now. Novak had 2BPs after he got broken and Hubbi served 3 consecutive aces. Nothing you can do there.