Nitto ATP Finals, 2019, London

[Bonaca]

Djokovic is better in 3 set meetings but Nadal is better in 5 set meetings. I think Djokovic should consider joining the WTA, he'd do great there!

Not Novak’s fault that there are more best of 3 matches. If more best of 5, Nadal would have won less because of injuries and the h2h would be more in Novak’s favour .

Djokovic is better in 3 set meetings but Nadal is better in 5 set meetings. I think Djokovic should consider joining the WTA, he'd do great there!

Also they played 26 finals, Novak Leads this one too.
Nadal would have accomplished less victories if every match was BO5 because of his playing style and thereby following injuries. h2h would also be even more in Novak’s favour.
The h2h record of these two isn’t different to interpret. If Nadal would lead you would say it’s the most important stat.

 

[Andy22]

He is better overall because he won more matches, sets and games and points. So he won more rallies.
if he surpass him in this aspect he’s the best.
Your 3set 5set Argument doesn’t stand.

Nadal better than Djokovic because he's won more slams 19-16 for now at least Djokovic can win more next season.

 

[Andy22]

I'll give Rafa a way; go back to the old days when The Masters' YEC moved around the world and even changed surfaces! That can be his crutch if he's truly desperate to win the 5th biggest event of the season! It's a shame that players not even in the top 100 now have won the WTF, but Nadal's been trying for years and I can only remember him playing 2 finals! Of course his best outing may have been in '09 when he lost all 3 of his RR matches! That was very entertaining and I re-live it whenever possible off my VHS recording! :whistle:

Wtf not even top 10 events of the year m it's just a showpiece like laver cup, gold medal masters are way better you can even lose and still win LoL.

 

[Bonaca]

Nadal better than Djokovic because he's won more slams 19-16 for now at least Djokovic can win more next season.

Sure in slam count is Nadal in front. But between the two, Novak is.
Roger is still in front in slam count, but would you say he is better than Nadal or Novak, with negative h2h against both??? I think no
Nadal is at least in front of roger , but Novak leads them both.

 

[Andy22]

Sure in slam count is Nadal in front. But between the two, Novak is.
Roger is still in front in slam count, but would you say he is better than Nadal or Novak, with negative h2h against both??? I think no
Nadal is at least in front of roger , but Novak leads them both.

point taken of course I agree the goat race is between Djokovic-nadal.

 

[Ricardo]

Sure in slam count is Nadal in front. But between the two, Novak is.
Roger is still in front in slam count, but would you say he is better than Nadal or Novak, with negative h2h against both??? I think no
Nadal is at least in front of roger , but Novak leads them both.

Novak waited till Fed is in the mid 30s to lead h-h. He can play a few more years then suddenly a lot of players will lead too, then they are all ‘better’ than him.

 

[Bonaca]

Novak waited till Fed is in the mid 30s to lead h-h. He can play a few more years then suddenly a lot of players will lead too, then they are all ‘better’ than him.

So what? This Is about the 3, they meet each other mostly in semis and finals and there is nobody comparable to them so far. One of them to lead the other two is a fucking remarkable point.
All of them are post prime, but still good enough to be number 1-3.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

He is better overall because he won more matches, sets and games and points. So he won more rallies.
if he surpass him in this aspect he’s the best.
Your 3set 5set Argument doesn’t stand.

Since you say that "overall" h2h in all matches means he's better, then do you agree that Connors is better than Djokovic because he has won more "overall" titles?

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Sure in slam count is Nadal in front. But between the two, Novak is.
Roger is still in front in slam count, but would you say he is better than Nadal or Novak, with negative h2h against both??? I think no
Nadal is at least in front of roger , but Novak leads them both.

Why do you talk about slam count and not overall title count to say that Nadal is better than Djokovic, but then use overall h2h to say that Djokovic is better than Nadal and not the slam h2h? :cuckoo: If slam titles are the most important than also the slam h2h is the most important. If you want to talk about overall h2h than you have to use overall titles as an argument which you never do.

 

[Bonaca]

Why do you talk about slam count and not overall title count to say that Nadal is better than Djokovic, but then use overall h2h to say that Djokovic is better than Nadal and not the slam h2h? :cuckoo: If slam titles are the most important than also the slam h2h is the most important. If you want to talk about overall h2h than you have to use overall titles as an argument which you never do.

I try to explain:
I don’t want and never did go into a Goat debate, because I think the 3 deserve the same respect for their success.
My recent posts refer only to the Nadal-Novak rivalry, and that the pure number of more wins between them is superior to any other interpretation of 28-26. He is in front and so far winning this particular battle against Nadal!
Im posting this only because of your ridiculous prayers for your butt-god.
I would not came up with this style for example in conversation with moxie or nadalgoat2 or rafanoy.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

I try to explain:
I don’t want and never did go into a Goat debate, because I think the 3 deserve the same respect for their success.
My recent posts refer only to the Nadal-Novak rivalry, and that the pure number of more wins between them is superior to any other interpretation of 28-26. He is in front and so far winning this particular battle against Nadal!
Im posting this only because of your ridiculous prayers for your butt-god.
I would not came up with this style for example in conversation with moxie or nadalgoat2 or rafanoy.

You still don't get it do you... If you want to use 28-26 to say who's better then don't also use 19-16 but use 84-77 instead. Get it? It's either "28-26 & 77-84" or it's "19-16 & 9-6". You can't use greatness arguments with 19-16 slams by ignoring atp250,500,1000, etc. and then use the 28-26 h2h by counting them. If slam titles are more important than overall titles, than it means that slam h2h is also more important than the overall h2h.

Get over it and stop replying with the same nonsense. I don't want to see you talk about the slam count when it comes to saying who's greater if you will not also use the slam h2h. If you want to keep using the "overall h2h" because they are all tennis matches/tournaments then start using the "overall titles" and admit that Connors is better than Djokovic because they are also all tennis matches/tournaments.

 

[Bonaca]

You still don't get it do you... If you want to use 28-26 to say who's better then don't also use 19-16 but use 84-77 instead. Get it? It's either "28-26 & 77-84" or it's "19-16 & 9-6". You can't use greatness arguments with 19-16 slams by ignoring atp250,500,1000, etc. and then use the 28-26 h2h by counting them. If slam titles are more important than overall titles, than it means that slam h2h is also more important than the overall h2h.

Get over it and stop replying with the same nonsense. I don't want to see you talk about the slam count when it comes to saying who's greater if you will not also use the slam h2h. If you want to keep using the "overall h2h" because they are all tennis matches/tournaments then start using the "overall titles" and admit that Connors is better than Djokovic because they are also all tennis matches/tournaments.

Haha you don’t get it.
I’m not talking about greatness, I’m arguing against your ridiculous butt-prayers. My simple point is your God lost more matches against my favourite player. That’s it. Not that difficult to understand.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Haha you don’t get it.
I’m not talking about greatness, I’m arguing against your ridiculous butt-prayers. My simple point is your God lost more matches against my favourite player. That’s it. Not that difficult to understand.

Do you think Nadal approaches a regular tournament the same way as he approaches a slam? No he doesn't, in fact NOBODY does. I think Nadal would rather be 0-5 against Novak in their atp250/500/1000 meetings but 2-0 in their slam meetings even if it would make him 2-5 overall. And Novak would rather be down 2-5 overall against Nadal but lead 2-0 in slam meetings.

Why? Cause the slam meetings are way more important and there's way more on the line. When it comes to slams, Nadal is another beast and his true greatness appears. The same for Novak, at a slam he's a different beast. It takes way more to beat them at a slam cause they a way more important matches. Just recently Novak fans were bragging about how the new gen might beat Novak in smaller tournaments but they won't be able to beat him in a slam. That again proves that slam h2h is more important cause true greatness is more on the line.

If you still don't get it or disagree then you need to quit watching tennis. If Novak was 100-20 overall h2h vs Nadal but 6-9 vs him in slams, I'd say you have an argument. But he's merely 28-26 overall h2h but 6-9 vs him in slams. I'd say both Nadal and Novak would rather have the 9-6 advantage but trail the 26-28. There's not even one doubt!

 

[Front242]

You still don't get it do you... If you want to use 28-26 to say who's better then don't also use 19-16 but use 84-77 instead. Get it? It's either "28-26 & 77-84" or it's "19-16 & 9-6". You can't use greatness arguments with 19-16 slams by ignoring atp250,500,1000, etc. and then use the 28-26 h2h by counting them. If slam titles are more important than overall titles, than it means that slam h2h is also more important than the overall h2h.

Get over it and stop replying with the same nonsense. I don't want to see you talk about the slam count when it comes to saying who's greater if you will not also use the slam h2h. If you want to keep using the "overall h2h" because they are all tennis matches/tournaments then start using the "overall titles" and admit that Connors is better than Djokovic because they are also all tennis matches/tournaments.

Sorry to break it to you but that means Connors is better than Nadal as well as Djokovic and Federer too.

 

[Bonaca]

Do you think Nadal approaches a regular tournament the same way as he approaches a slam? No he doesn't, in fact NOBODY does. I think Nadal would rather be 0-5 against Novak in their atp250/500/1000 meetings but 2-0 in their slam meetings even if it would make him 2-5 overall. And Novak would rather be down 2-5 overall against Nadal but lead 2-0 in slam meetings.

Why? Cause the slam meetings are way more important and there's way more on the line. When it comes to slams, Nadal is another beast and his true greatness appears. The same for Novak, at a slam he's a different beast. It takes way more to beat them at a slam cause they a way more important matches. Just recently Novak fans were bragging about how the new gen might beat Novak in smaller tournaments but they won't be able to beat him in a slam. That again proves that slam h2h is more important cause true greatness is more on the line.

If you still don't get it or disagree then you need to quit watching tennis. If Novak was 100-20 overall h2h vs Nadal but 6-9 vs him in slams, I'd say you have an argument. But he's merely 28-26 overall h2h but 6-9 vs him in slams. I'd say both Nadal and Novak would rather have the 9-6 advantage but trail the 26-28. There's not even one doubt![/QUOTE
Ah now it’s the merely-argument. If you are right and Nadal is the Tennis-god, than two more wins against the god counts like 100 against the normal guys. He is that good and couldn’t manage to beat Novak more times? He is 15:7 in finals, that also didn’t count in your world?
Two wins of your god came by injury retirement of Novak, ups both in slams.
That is not the way real competitors think, you clearly never compete seriously, there is no doubt about.
In Such an intense rivalry with one of the main opponents, every regular match counts!
i understand your selective view on the facts, it’s hard to accept.

 

[Bonaca]

Sorry to break it to you but that means Connors is better than Nadal as well as Djokovic and Federer too.

Sorry to break it to you but that means Connors is better than Nadal as well as Djokovic and Federer too.

Haha that one was awesome.

 

[Bonaca]

Do you think Nadal approaches a regular tournament the same way as he approaches a slam? No he doesn't, in fact NOBODY does. I think Nadal would rather be 0-5 against Novak in their atp250/500/1000 meetings but 2-0 in their slam meetings even if it would make him 2-5 overall. And Novak would rather be down 2-5 overall against Nadal but lead 2-0 in slam meetings.

Why? Cause the slam meetings are way more important and there's way more on the line. When it comes to slams, Nadal is another beast and his true greatness appears. The same for Novak, at a slam he's a different beast. It takes way more to beat them at a slam cause they a way more important matches. Just recently Novak fans were bragging about how the new gen might beat Novak in smaller tournaments but they won't be able to beat him in a slam. That again proves that slam h2h is more important cause true greatness is more on the line.

If you still don't get it or disagree then you need to quit watching tennis. If Novak was 100-20 overall h2h vs Nadal but 6-9 vs him in slams, I'd say you have an argument. But he's merely 28-26 overall h2h but 6-9 vs him in slams. I'd say both Nadal and Novak would rather have the 9-6 advantage but trail the 26-28. There's not even one doubt!

Ah now it’s the merely-argument. If you are right and Nadal is the Tennis-god, than two more wins against the god counts like 100 against the normal guys. He is that good and couldn’t manage to beat Novak more times? He is 15:7 in finals, that also didn’t count in your world?
Two wins of your god came by injury retirement of Novak, ups both in slams.
That is not the way real competitors think, you clearly never compete seriously, there is no doubt about.
In Such an intense rivalry with one of the main opponents, every regular match counts!
i understand your selective view on the facts, it’s hard to accept.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Sorry to break it to you but that means Connors is better than Nadal as well as Djokovic and Federer too.

Sure according to our local genius Bonaca, not according to me and the rest of the planet.

 

[Nadalfan2013]

Ah now it’s the merely-argument. If you are right and Nadal is the Tennis-god, than two more wins against the god counts like 100 against the normal guys. He is that good and couldn’t manage to beat Novak more times? He is 15:7 in finals, that also didn’t count in your world?
Two wins of your god came by injury retirement of Novak, ups both in slams.
That is not the way real competitors think, you clearly never compete seriously, there is no doubt about.
In Such an intense rivalry with one of the main opponents, every regular match counts!
i understand your selective view on the facts, it’s hard to accept.

Again, then next time don't talk about the slam count but talk about the overall title count. If you insist that all h2h meetings matter then it means that all tournaments matter too (thus bringing up Connors's titles). However if in other posts you act that slam titles matter most than it also means that slam meetings matter most.

I never said that regular matches do not count, I said that they don't count as much as slam matches. The same thing with how regular titles count but not as much as slam titles.

Like I already said, even you Novak fans downplayed the nextgen wins over him in regular tournaments saying that they are not a threat cause they were not in slams. Practice what you preach.

 

[Bonaca]

Again, then next time don't talk about the slam count but talk about the overall title count. If you insist that all h2h meetings matter then it means that all tournaments matter too (thus bringing up Connors's titles). However if in other posts you act that slam titles matter most than it also means that slam meetings matter most.

Like I already said, even you Novak fans downplayed the nextgen wins over him in regular tournaments saying that they are not a threat cause they were not in slams. Practice what you preach.

Haha you are a real expert , you proof again you don’t have any sense/expertise for real competition or rivalry. Maybe for highly sweating butts.
I wrote that Nadal is the most difficult to beat, Roger and Novak are more vulnerable for upsets.
But no matter what you are dreaming about, Novak beat the unbeatable more often than lost against him.