Nadalites – Rafa Nadal Talk

[MargaretMcAleer]

Regarding Wimbledon I also feel the lower bounce of the ball,has also been a factor Rafa not handling the grass conditions.

 

[Jelenafan]

Question: When he captures RG from Novak, Do you think that he will finally go into Wimbledon with the attitude that he is playing with house money. Will he open up the shoulders and hit the ball like he does in practice? We have seen glimpse of this type of tennis from him vs Dominic Thiem at the USO and AO is the ones that comes to mind. I feel on grass this could give me the free points that he needs on that surface. The guys in this era hit so hard with the current racket and string technology. Novak's game is better suited to absorb pace and he moves just a bit better than Nadal the past few years. Any thoughts or maybe I may need another cup of java today.. cheers ladies and gents

If the foot/knee/Back/name your poison holds up, why not Wimbledon? His slice is very effective on the grass and he’s used it more strategically as the years have gone by, and his own serve is more aggressive. I concede he’s lost perhaps a quarter to half step, but with the tiebreakers and surface you are not going to have matches that are that as hard on your body as on HC and they are not going to be 5+ hour marathons. Rafa’s advantage over the young bucks is so many of them can’t play defense or have a consistent return game, so his experience on grass could serve him well.

At this point in his career it’s all gravy , and since Rafa hasn’t played W in 3 years I am also curious if he will play a ballsy and riskier game, his practice game as you put it. LOL. I say it will be easier to execute.

Clearly Rafa had a golden opportunity in 2018 Wimbledon and even 2019 but with his track history clearly the biggest challenge remains if his body can stay relatively injury free.

 

[Kieran]

I think at Wimbledon his main problem has been that he’s found it more difficult as he got older to transition from clay to grass, after RG. He just can’t manage it in two weeks. It’s no coincidence that since they now have 3 weeks, he’s been in two semis and a 4th round…

 

[the AntiPusher]

Kieran and JFan good points by both of you. Rafa was at his best on grass in 2018. His movement was perfect and he had recovered from RG. I think now that he is very comfortable moving forward, I wouldn't be surprised to see Rafa continue to add more S&V to his arsenal especially if he can hit his spots with his serves. That was the big improvement by Novak's grass court play post 2014, the ability to hit his spots at critical points of a match is what brought him even with Roger and moved him passed Nadal on the grass.

 

[the AntiPusher]

If this doesn't move your emotions than there's a high probability the blood in your body may have snakelike temperature regardless if your are not a Nadal fan.

 

[Kieran]

If this doesn't move your emotions than there's a high probability the blood in your body may have snakelike temperature regardless if your are not a Nadal fan.

It’s wonderful, thanks!

 

[Moxie]

That grey haired Spanish commentator at the end, head in hands, then very shaky of voice, just finally saying, "That was amazing." That was all of us.

 

[the AntiPusher]

It’s wonderful, thanks!

You're welcome. Kieran. Really shows how much of a Yoda type of mentor and coach Toni Nadal is. Bravo Uncle Toni.

 

[Moxie]

Your video, AP, inspired me to look for Toni's TED talk. It's worth a watch. It has subtitles.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Answering Tented's Top 5 wins for Nadal first:

1. 2008 Wimbledon Final: This match had EVERYTHING: High quality shots, drama, rain delay, darkness, number 1 vs. number 2 players in the world, two sets up, two tiebreakers (one with championship points on the line). This win by Nadal just signifies Nadal's ascension to the top of the tennis world.

2. 2022 Australian Open Final (From sets 3 to 5): We already know what happened because it just happened a couple days ago!

3. 2019 US Open Final: It is similar to the 2008 Wimbledon final in which the drama and being up 2 sets to love and the opponent stepping the level to force a deciding 5th set.

4. 2008 Roland Garros Final or 2017 Roland Garros Final: Nadal demolishing and demoralizing the opponent. Also, Nadal did it two different ways: In 2008, he did it with athleticism and defense, while in 2017, he did it pure aggressive offensive arsenal.

5. 2010 US Open Final: Just completing the Career Grand Slam at the age 24. Also, his level at the US Open is probably the highest level that Nadal has achieved on a hardcourt.

It's amazing that in all four slams, Nadal has a memorable match in my view.

 

[rafanoy1992]

Also, did you guys know: This is Nadal's first win in a Slam final after losing the 1st set outside of Roland Garros, of course.

He was previously 0-7 outside of Roland Garros after losing the 1st set:

0-3 at AO, 0-3 at Wimbledon, and 0-1 at US Open.

Interestingly enough, he is 17-1 when winning the 1st set of a Slam final, the only lone loss was at the 2012 Australian Open Final.

So time becomes a full circle at the Australian Open!

 

[Moxie]

Answering Tented's Top 5 wins for Nadal first:

1. 2008 Wimbledon Final: This match had EVERYTHING: High quality shots, drama, rain delay, darkness, number 1 vs. number 2 players in the world, two sets up, two tiebreakers (one with championship points on the line). This win by Nadal just signifies Nadal's ascension to the top of the tennis world.

I agree that this match had everything. It was going to be all-chips-on-the table, even before the tournament started. The drama was off the charts, as was the quality of tennis. No one else beat Roger at Wimbledon in his prime years, and, whether Rafa completely acknowledges it or not, I think this is his favorite GS win.

2. 2022 Australian Open Final (From sets 3 to 5): We already know what happened because it just happened a couple days ago!

This just has to be his bravest, grittiest, most astonishing GS final win.

3. 2019 US Open Final: It is similar to the 2008 Wimbledon final in which the drama and being up 2 sets to love and the opponent stepping the level to force a deciding 5th set.

While I appreciate that everyone thinks this was a great match, Rafa could have closed it in 3, and it's just hard for me to love that match. Personal opinion.

4. 2008 Roland Garros Final or 2017 Roland Garros Final: Nadal demolishing and demoralizing the opponent. Also, Nadal did it two different ways: In 2008, he did it with athleticism and defense, while in 2017, he did it pure aggressive offensive arsenal.

The 2008 RG final was a train wreck for Roger, and I have a hard time loving that one. It was SO one-sided, but Rafa was absolutely astonishing on clay that whole 2008 season, just untouchable, so I get including it.

5. 2010 US Open Final: Just completing the Career Grand Slam at the age 24. Also, his level at the US Open is probably the highest level that Nadal has achieved on a hardcourt.

This one has the historical significance, because of the career GS, and I agree on Nadal's level, and serve. I just prefer the 2013 over Djokovic, for Novak having arrived at a higher level, himself. More satisfaction, as a fan.

It's amazing that in all four slams, Nadal has a memorable match in my view.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but he has more than one in each, including ones he didn't win. Though, his most memorable win at RG was a the SF v Novak in '13. Can the same not be said of Roger and Novak? I think it might be at the USO where neither of them have both won and lost classics. Roger has lost a couple of 5-setters to ND, and one to JMDP, but I don't think he ever won in a "classic." Nor has Novak won the title in a great match. But he has won the title after a classic SF, and the same may be said of Rafa at RG. None of his finals was a classic, though '11 v Roger and '12 v Novak were closest. The most classic was the SF v. ND in '13.

 

[rafanoy1992]

I agree that this match had everything. It was going to be all-chips-on-the table, even before the tournament started. The drama was off the charts, as was the quality of tennis. No one else beat Roger at Wimbledon in his prime years, and, whether Rafa completely acknowledges it or not, I think this is his favorite GS win.

This just has to be his bravest, grittiest, most astonishing GS final win.

While I appreciate that everyone thinks this was a great match, Rafa could have closed it in 3, and it's just hard for me to love that match. Personal opinion.

The 2008 RG final was a train wreck for Roger, and I have a hard time loving that one. It was SO one-sided, but Rafa was absolutely astonishing on clay that whole 2008 season, just untouchable, so I get including it.

This one has the historical significance, because of the career GS, and I agree on Nadal's level, and serve. I just prefer the 2013 over Djokovic, for Novak having arrived at a higher level, himself. More satisfaction, as a fan.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but he has more than one in each, including ones he didn't win. Though, his most memorable win at RG was a the SF v Novak in '13. Can the same not be said of Roger and Novak? I think it might be at the USO where neither of them have both won and lost classics. Roger has lost a couple of 5-setters to ND, and one to JMDP, but I don't think he ever won in a "classic." Nor has Novak won the title in a great match. But he has won the title after a classic SF, and the same may be said of Rafa at RG. None of his finals was a classic, though '11 v Roger and '12 v Novak were closest. The most classic was the SF v. ND in '13.

To be fair, Nadal should have won 2008 Wimbledon in either 3 or 4 sets too.

The reason I don't put Nadal SF win over Djokovic in 2013 RG in the top 5 wins is because it was in the semifinals. If you look at my list, all of them were in the finals.

As for the 2013 US Open Final, I can see it in the Top 5 wins especially that was Djokovic at higher level and world number 1. I just thought 2010 US Open final was a higher level from Nadal.

 

[Moxie]

To be fair, Nadal should have won 2008 Wimbledon in either 3 or 4 sets too.

The reason I don't put Nadal SF win over Djokovic in 2013 RG in the top 5 wins is because it was in the semifinals. If you look at my list, all of them were in the finals.

As for the 2013 US Open Final, I can see it in the Top 5 wins especially that was Djokovic at higher level and world number 1. I just thought 2010 US Open final was a higher level from Nadal.

All picks are fair, and I'm not denigrating any. I fully admitted that all of mine were emotional to me. I figured just to add another take. It is true that you can say that Nadal could have won Wimbledon 2008 after 3 or 4. And Medvedev could have won on Sunday in straights. It is the comeback that makes the drama, even if the one coming back doesn't win. That's why you quote Clarey for the justification for best of 5. And it's why I think women should play best of 5, at least at some stage of the Majors.

 

[Jelenafan]

Some of the external factors that made the 2008 Wimbledon finals so memorable have now been eliminated by enclosed roof arenas. No more rain delays, no more sunset with the light fading, no more gusts of wind that disrupted serves and groundies; overall better for the sponsors and fans though I confess I miss some of the craziness of outdoor tennis among natural elements.

One of my all time fave matches was a non Major final, namely the 2006 Masters Italian Open final between Rafa and Roger back when the finals of Masters was best of five. Scoreline: was 6–7(0–7), 7–6(7–5), 6–4, 2–6, 7–6(7–5) for Rafa and it was the best Rafa/Roger clay court final, both players were flowing and making spectacular shots. They were both so young ( 20 & 25) and really simply a fun match.

 

[Moxie]

Some of the external factors that made the 2008 Wimbledon finals so memorable have now been eliminated by enclosed roof arenas. No more rain delays, no more sunset with the light fading, no more gusts of wind that disrupted serves and groundies; overall better for the sponsors and fans though I confess I miss some of the craziness of outdoor tennis among natural elements.

One of my all time fave matches was a non Major final, namely the 2006 Masters Italian Open final between Rafa and Roger back when the finals of Masters was best of five. Scoreline: was 6–7(0–7), 7–6(7–5), 6–4, 2–6, 7–6(7–5) for Rafa and it was the best Rafa/Roger clay court final, both players were flowing and making spectacular shots. They were both so young ( 20 & 25) and really simply a fun match.

Margaret mentioned that 2006 Rome final, and it is an all-time classic.

As to the 2008 Wimbledon, it was absolutely the last time that rain and darkness would feature in the same way, and they did feature, as if taking their last bow. But the natural elements do still make an impact on outdoor tennis. They don't stop, or close the roof, for wind, for example. And the shadows cross the courts. Heat and humidity still matter. There is still such a thing as outdoor tennis, and the players have to deal with it.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Moxie,

You think that at some stage women should play the best of 5? can you expand on that and make it clearer,it has been suggested before.Just quickly as I know this is Rafa's post or put your thoughts on the WTA news

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

In regards to Tented's Top 5 wins for Rafa,

Personally,I would elevated 2008 RG final from 4 to 3.
Rafa to me in that final took his clay court game to a 'another level' ( his whole clay season was just a 'masterclass'.)

 

[Moxie]

Moxie,

You think that at some stage women should play the best of 5? can you expand on that and make it clearer,it has been suggested before.Just quickly as I know this is Rafa's post or put your thoughts on the WTA news

I'll make my case briefly here, MM, and make a thread on the wta side, if people want to debate. IMO, the point makes itself, on this thread. Chris Clarey said that the final on Sunday made the argument for best of 5 matches. Why? Because they are epic and dramatic, and they allow for more turnaround of fortunes. I don't think a women's match will ever, or rarely, make a top list, not because they're not as good, but because even in men's matches, the 2 of 3 rarely make the list. Some misogynists on these forums have become incensed when they think I try to compare the men's and women's games on this point, but I am not. The men and women don't play each other. But I think women should have a chance to play for the same kind of epic matches, within their own game. Note that men only play best of 5 in 4 tournaments a year, anymore. The rest are gone. Women could do the same, at Majors. They have a day off between matches, same as the men. And they would help their case justifying equal pay, though I don't agree with that point, at all. (Tennis players don't get paid by the hour.) More importantly, it's that women will never be seen as exciting as the men if they don't get to play these kinds of matches. Best of 5 requires fitness, strength, fortitude, will and more, and if we pretend that women don't have enough to play them, we will never see them as equal in the game.

Without best 3 of 5, Sunday's final would have been over in 2, and Rafa would never have had the chance to show the world what a badass he is, which is what everyone is praising him for. I think some women should have the same chance.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I'll make my case briefly here, MM, and make a thread on the wta side, if people want to debate. IMO, the point makes itself, on this thread. Chris Clarey said that the final on Sunday made the argument for best of 5 matches. Why? Because they are epic and dramatic, and they allow for more turnaround of fortunes. I don't think a women's match will ever, or rarely, make a top list, not because they're not as good, but because even in men's matches, the 2 of 3 rarely make the list. Some misogynists on these forums have become incensed when they think I try to compare the men's and women's games on this point, but I am not. The men and women don't play each other. But I think women should have a chance to play for the same kind of epic matches, within their own game. Note that men only play best of 5 in 4 tournaments a year, anymore. The rest are gone. Women could do the same, at Majors. They have a day off between matches, same as the men. And they would help their case justifying equal pay, though I don't agree with that point, at all. (Tennis players don't get paid by the hour.) More importantly, it's that women will never be seen as exciting as the men if they don't get to play these kinds of matches. Best of 5 requires fitness, strength, fortitude, will and more, and if we pretend that women don't have enough to play them, we will never see them as equal in the game.

Without best 3 of 5, Sunday's final would have been over in 2, and Rafa would never have had the chance to show the world what a badass he is, which is what everyone is praising him for. I think some women should have the same chance.

I have no problem women playing best of 5 set matches at GS level.
I am 100% against people wanting to change the GS matches to best of three ( unless your Zverev of course
We have seen some incredible 5 set matches at GS,we all just witness one at the AO 2022.