Nadalites – Rafa Nadal Talk

[Bonaca]

These heavier conditions all are talking about, played into his cards.
It wasn’t obvious until his first serious opponent in the F.
For a short time, Novak threw heavy artillery on him, with zero effect.
The slower conditions helped him more than the lesser spin hurts.


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[Jelenafan]

These heavier conditions all are talking about, played into his cards.
It wasn’t obvious until his first serious opponent in the F.
For a short time, Novak threw heavy artillery on him, with zero effect.
The slower conditions helped him more than the lesser spin hurts.


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In hindsight, we can all see that now. However the line by many was that since Novak is a great defensive player himself and a fantastic scrambler (he's not nicknamed Gumby by many for nothing) and in great physical shape the heavier conditions would also favor him, no? The myth is that Rafa can outlast anyone, no, we know he can't necessarily outlast Novak in a physical battle of attrition. (See the 2012 AO final among others)

The unknown factor IMO this time was Rafa's conditioning and match toughness. The loss in the Qtrs at Rome to Schwartzman fed the narrative that Rafa needed more time and matches to be ready for Roland Garros.

 

[Moxie]

Speaking of Robin Soderling he just tweeted this regarding Rafa,

"To put things in perspective.Just to qualify for the French Open main draw 13 times is unbelievable as an athlete.Words can not describe what Rafa has done.Big up "young man"."

This is something I was thinking about, in terms of this record standing. To win it 13 times, Rafa has played it 16 (2 losses, 1 withdrawal.) And since he'll likely get a chance to play it again in 7 months, and he just put a big beatdown on the one guy that still, realistically, is the only one people look to to beat him there, there is every reason to believe that he's not done. I think it was GSM said, rather wistfully, when Rafa won his 11th or 12th FO, that as much as records were made to be broken, and as much as he hoped that Roger's would stand at least to be broken by a player/players in a future era, he thought that some of Rafa's clay records may hold up forever. It's quite a legacy that he'll be leaving, when he does hang 'em up. There are Federer fans and now, at least, Bonaca who like to complain about Nadal's "unbalanced" resume, but there have been hints of envy here and there that he may be the one to even keep some of his records.

Also speaking of Soderling, I remember him saying a year or so before Novak finally did it, that he was really hoping for someone else to beat Rafa at RG...because he was getting really sick of the press hounding him every May to talk to him as the only guy who'd ever done it.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

This is something I was thinking about, in terms of this record standing. To win it 13 times, Rafa has played it 16 (2 losses, 1 withdrawal.) And since he'll likely get a chance to play it again in 7 months, and he just put a big beatdown on the one guy that still, realistically, is the only one people look to to beat him there, there is every reason to believe that he's not done. I think it was GSM said, rather wistfully, when Rafa won his 11th or 12th FO, that as much as records were made to be broken, and as much as he hoped that Roger's would stand at least to be broken by a player/players in a future era, he thought that some of Rafa's clay records may hold up forever. It's quite a legacy that he'll be leaving, when he does hang 'em up. There are Federer fans and now, at least, Bonaca who like to complain about Nadal's "unbalanced" resume, but there have been hints of envy here and there that he may be the one to even keep some of his records.

Also speaking of Soderling, I remember him saying a year or so before Novak finally did it, that he was really hoping for someone else to beat Rafa at RG...because he was getting really sick of the press hounding him every May to talk to him as the only guy who'd ever done it.

Well in my lifetime Rafa's record 13 GS titles at RG will not be broken.....BTW there is noone at present that has the tools that Rafa has on clay.Whether you like his tennis or not,or like him personally,any tennis fan should applaud what he has achieved at Roland Garos with 13 titles.Unbelievable!

 

[Moxie]

These heavier conditions all are talking about, played into his cards.
It wasn’t obvious until his first serious opponent in the F.
For a short time, Novak threw heavy artillery on him, with zero effect.
The slower conditions helped him more than the lesser spin hurts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with Jelenafan's reply to you, esp. in the notion that it's hindsight to say that. And the lack of conditioning/prep. But also, when Soderling beat Rafa it was cold and damp, also it was on Langlen. In the 2012 final, when Rafa was cruising against Djokovic...then it started to sprinkle. The balls got heavy, and Novak started to roll. Even when Schwartzman came out hot against Nadal a couple of years ago, the conditions were heavy, and the match was stopped due to rain. No one just invented this theory that damp, cold conditions and heavier balls should at the very least not help Rafa at all, if not actively hurt him. That has been the prevailing wisdom for years, both with reason and precedent. And then the closed the roof, which should also have favored Djokovic, at least somewhat. No wind issues. Rafa just dealt with what was thrown his way in terms of obstacles in this tournament, to the surprise of many, obviously. (TBH, some of his fans, included...just not Carol.)

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I agree with Jelenafan's reply to you, esp. in the notion that it's hindsight to say that. And the lack of conditioning/prep. But also, when Soderling beat Rafa it was cold and damp, also it was on Langlen. In the 2012 final, when Rafa was cruising against Djokovic...then it started to sprinkle. The balls got heavy, and Novak started to roll. Even when Schwartzman came out hot against Nadal a couple of years ago, the conditions were heavy, and the match was stopped due to rain. No one just invented this theory that damp, cold conditions and heavier balls should at the very least not help Rafa at all, if not actively hurt him. That has been the prevailing wisdom for years, both with reason and precedent. And then the closed the roof, which should also have favored Djokovic, at least somewhat. No wind issues. Rafa just dealt with what was thrown his way in terms of obstacles in this tournament, to the surprise of many, obviously. (TBH, some of his fans, included...just not Carol.)

Moxie It is common knowledge Rafa does not like slow,heavy conditions.Rafa adjusted well to the playing conditions at RG this year.I was live at RG in 2012,it was dismal.not only for the players but for fans as well,worse than this year at RG.
Remember the slow conditions when the tournament was played on clay in Hamburg?

 

[Jelenafan]

... And since he'll likely get a chance to play it again in 7 months, and he just put a big beatdown on the one guy that still, realistically, is the only one people look to to beat him there, there is every reason to believe that he's not done...

cough..cough...Dominic...cough cough..

Don't forget Team Theim, as a 2 time SF/ 2 time finalist who got over the first Major win hurdle, I expected him fully prepared and fit for another battle come next May. He has both physicality and the weapons and I suspect he's going to get even better.

 

[Moxie]

Well in my lifetime Rafa's record 13 GS titles at RG will not be broken.....BTW there is noone at present that has the tools that Rafa has on clay.Whether you like his tennis or not,or like him personally,any tennis fan should applaud what he has achieved at Roland Garos with 13 titles.Unbelievable!

I agree, nor in mine. Borg's record 6 held up for 30 years, or thereabouts, and the next nearest him is a few guys with 3. Rafa lapped Borg last year, and is still going. Even if someone ties it in a different single Major...Roger probably doesn't have 5 more Wimbledons in him; Novak might get 5 more AOs...if he wins all or nearly all until he's 38 or 39. But RG is considered the physically most demanding, so that will be a tough ask. Likewise, Rafa has 60 titles on clay. He passed Vilas's record of 48 (I think it was?) a long time ago. Another record that had stood for 30+ years.

 

[Moxie]

cough..cough...Dominic...cough cough..

Don't forget Team Theim, as a 2 time SF/ 2 time finalist who got over the first Major win hurdle, I expected him fully prepared and fit for another battle come next May. He has both physicality and the weapons and I suspect he's going to get even better.

I didn't forget him. And I like him. He may be the next guy to eventually get Rafa, but he disappointed me, rather, in the return to tennis this summer/fall. He was my pick to come into N. Am and clay as the in-form player. But he bombed out early in Cincy. Yes, I recognize that we won the USO, but really without finding his A-game. (I don't think he'd have won it if he'd had to go through Djokovic unless he'd taken it up 2 notches, at least.) Went 5 with Gaston, then lost to Schwartzman in 5 at RG...which isn't the biggest shame, but I thought he was more primed for this part of the season than he turned out to be. Also, I was thinking of the endless "who can beat Rafa at RG?" threads around here. Most people really only give you Novak. I remember @Mile saying that s/he "had a feeling" that this would be the year that Rafa loses at RG. Someone always gets that feeling every year. Eventually they'll be right. But until further notice, I still think that Djokovic is far and away the biggest threat to Nadal at RG.

 

[Moxie]

Moxie It is common knowledge Rafa does not like slow,heavy conditions.Rafa adjusted well to the playing conditions at RG this year.I was live at RG in 2012,it was dismal.not only for the players but for fans as well,worse than this year at RG.
Remember the slow conditions when the tournament was played on clay in Hamburg?

Yes, a clay tournament that Rafa only won once, and where Roger beat him to snap Rafa's (also-record) surface win streak. In one of Roger's only two wins over Nadal on clay, I think. The other one would have been in Madrid.

 

[Jelenafan]

I didn't forget him. And I like him. He may be the next guy to eventually get Rafa, but he disappointed me, rather, in the return to tennis this summer/fall. He was my pick to come into N. Am and clay as the in-form player. But he bombed out early in Cincy. Yes, I recognize that we won the USO, but really without finding his A-game. (I don't think he'd have won it if he'd had to go through Djokovic unless he'd taken it up 2 notches, at least.) Went 5 with Gaston, then lost to Schwartzman in 5 at RG...which isn't the biggest shame, but I thought he was more primed for this part of the season than he turned out to be. A

Sheesh you're tough! I don't care how my Faves win, just drag them through the finish line.

In Team Theim's defense , this switch from HC to red clay in a couple of weeks is unprecedented, and he didn't even have the luxury of a warm up tournament. He made the Quarterfinals of his very next Major after his first big Slam win, which is better than both Federer and Rafa did when they first won. He freely admitted he was exhausted from the runup in NY when he got to Paris. Get him a couple of red clay tournaments next year before Rolan Garos and I expect him to be good as rain.

But I hear you, Nextgen /all Gens have been not overly awe inspiring in the return to tennis, Novak won the 2 masters, Rafa won the FO, and Shopavolov, FAA,
Zverev, etc. have had inconsistent results . They do well in one tournament and wilt in the next. Even Stefano Tsitsipas' run to the SF at the French was marred by running out of gas in the 5th set versus the ancient Novak. Medvedev has been particularly disappointing, lets see if he can get his act together in the rest of the HC season.

With lowered expectations, the bright spot to me was the Russian only a mother (and moi) would root for, Adrev Rublev who had back to back QTRfinals and had chances early in those matches. Silent K did Ok also.

Even after the hiatus, with time to condition and recoup, the Big 2 emerged mentally and physically stronger then the kids.

 

[Moxie]

Sheesh you're tough! I don't care how my Faves win, just drag them through the finish line.

In Team Theim's defense , this switch from HC to red clay in a couple of weeks is unprecedented, and he didn't even have the luxury of a warm up tournament. He made the Quarterfinals of his very next Major after his first big Slam win, which is better than both Federer and Rafa did when they first won. He freely admitted he was exhausted from the runup in NY when he got to Paris. Get him a couple of red clay tournaments next year before Rolan Garos and I expect him to be good as rain.

But I hear you, Nextgen /all Gens have been not overly awe inspiring in the return to tennis, Novak won the 2 masters, Rafa won the FO, and Shopavolov, FAA,
Zverev, etc. have had inconsistent results . They do well in one tournament and wilt in the next. Even Stefano Tsitsipas' run to the SF at the French was marred by running out of gas in the 5th set versus the ancient Novak. Medvedev has been particularly disappointing, lets see if he can get his act together in the rest of the HC season.

With lowered expectations, the bright spot to me was the Russian only a mother (and moi) would root for, Adrev Rublev who had back to back QTRfinals and had chances early in those matches. Silent K did Ok also.

Even after the hiatus, with time to condition and recoup, the Big 2 emerged mentally and physically stronger then the kids.

I know...I probably am grading on too high a curve. But with the elite still in and being who they are, the standards ARE pretty high. I really did think that Thiem was looking good in the Junior-Year-Abroad exhibition run this summer. I expected to see guns blazing when real tennis came back, and he was a bit short of that. I know why he skipped Rome, and he did ok in RG, as you rightly point out, given the short turnaround to clay, and the hangover from the USO win. But he didn't come up that hungry notch that I thought he would upon the return to tennis.

You make a good recap of the youngsters in this period. @JesuslookslikeBorg said something pithy, in his way, about the youngsters creating the illusion that they were making a breakthrough, only to have it dashed again. I was particularly disappointed with the Tsitsipas fade in the 5th v. Novak in the SF on Friday. Not just because I didn't want Rafa to have to face Novak...in retrospect, I'm glad he did. But Stefanos is like 21 or 22...WTF? You have to fight for it, and you should be more fit than that! And I'm not especially sad that Thiem wasn't a force in this RG, because he was in Rafa's half. But I'm talking about general disappointment. Yes, we do wonder when Medvedev resurfaces as a threat. I'm going to try to like Rublev more, but you'll never get me warm up to Silent K.

 

[Jelenafan]

t. I'm going to try to like Rublev more, but you'll never get me warm up to Silent K.

What's not to love?

He started well in St. Petersburg, beating Pospisil today 2 & 4.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

What's not to love?

View attachment 4167


He started well in St. Petersburg, beating Pospisil today 2 & 4.

He has nice hair

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa Nadal has been awarded Spain's highest sports award "The Grand Cross of the Royal Order of Sporting Merit".
(Quite frankly I am surprised he has not been awarded this before)

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Stan Warwinka tweeted,

"What Rafael Nadal is achieving so far in the French Open is on of the greatest achievements of any sports probably,winning 13 time(the) French Open.The way he's doing it,it's something amazing.I had the chance to play him there (twice) at the French Open,always got killed.so I know how difficult it is to play him there.And I think it's always difficult to compare the Big 3,especially those amazing athletes,especially that they're still playing,so we don't know (who the GOAT is right now).I think we will have to wait and see.I think we have to enjoy that they're still playing,they're still doing something amazing for our sport in general,and that's something that I like to watch.I like to watch them play and as long as they will play,I will enjoy that".

 

[Carol]

No way you can see anymore a very young player at this level and that's why I felt so much admiration to him from the first time I watched him, incredible!

"He was a beast!" Spanish coaches recall Rafael Nadal's greatness even as a youngster

Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal Rafael Nadal recently lifted his 13th Roland Garros title, winning against World No.1, Novak Djokovic in the finals. This also

firstsportz.com

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rublev on Rafa.Rafa is Best Athlete in History

www.tennisnow.com/News/2020/October

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Rafa has announced today he will play Paris Masters 1000.
Rafa also confirmed he will play ATP Finals,London.

 

[Jelenafan]

Rafael Nadal Academy prodigy reaches world number 2. Nadal is thrilled

Tennis - Nadal’s legacy academy starts to dominate Grand Slam tournaments

www.tennisworldusa.org

Rafa's academy is thriving with promising players, we know French champ Iva Swiatek has spent time there.