Nadalites – Rafa Nadal Talk

Moxie

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You actually called Roger a corpse in the post I quoted when mentioning the one loss not on HC, which would have been on grass, so you said it above. I absolutely say that Roger and Novak have much better resumes off clay. You can keep your hyper-inflated adjectives. For "vastly inferior" I think you'd have to go to del Potro, Cilic and downwards.
 

DarthFed

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You actually called Roger a corpse in the post I quoted when mentioning the one loss not on HC, which would have been on grass, so you said it above. I absolutely say that Roger and Novak have much better resumes off clay. You can keep your hyper-inflated adjectives. For "vastly inferior" I think you'd have to go to del Potro, Cilic and downwards.

In 2008 - AO 2009, Rafa won 5 in a row. 3 on clay 1 on grass and 1 on hard. In 2013-2014 he again won 5 in a row, with 4 being on HC and the other being Rome 2013 final. I never mentioned Fed being a corpse in 2008, he was still good at majors in particular. Disappointing in a huge way but not like 2013.

It's not hyper-inflated to say they are vastly superior than Rafa off clay, especially if we are talking Roger.
 
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monfed

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Has dull's ankle healed or is he still limping?
 

Moxie

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In 2008 - AO 2009, Rafa won 5 in a row. 3 on clay 1 on grass and 1 on hard. In 2013-2014 he again won 5 in a row, with 4 being on HC and the other being Rome 2013 final. I never mentioned Fed being a corpse in 2008, he was still good at majors in particular. Disappointing in a huge way but not like 2013.

It's not hyper-inflated to say they are vastly superior than Rafa off clay, especially if we are talking Roger.
Boy, I bet folks around here are pretty excited it's almost time for the tennis to start up again, so they can watch some sport besides you and me poking at each other endlessly. :lulz2: I think you can say "vastly superior" if you're comparing only the 3, which is perhaps what you intended, but didn't qualify. If you mean against the field, then, no.
 

Nadalfan2013

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Front242

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The last time Federer fans made fun of Nadal's injuries, Federer hurt his back. Be careful, karma is a b. :bye:

Actually, that never happened. He hurt his back by playing Montreal with no practice straight from vacation/holiday, whatever you choose to call it.
 
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Carol

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Same old same old from Nadal and his tards will lap it up as usual.
LOL look who is talking, one more Federer tard fanatic. Listen, I'm tired of people so pathetic like you and others, ridiculous, classless and trolls Federer's fans, they are too many so I hope the Swiss is not that kind of person though I have my doubts about it because the rocker likes the rock, the marijuana smoker likes the marijuana, the drunk likes the alcohol and etc etc, do you know what I mean??? that is exactly what I think!
 

Moxie

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Same old same old from Nadal and his tards will lap it up as usual.
Fairly straight-forward statement. Surprising that it needs so much editorializing from you.
 

Moxie

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Actually, that never happened. He hurt his back by playing Montreal with no practice straight from vacation/holiday, whatever you choose to call it.
While this is the Nadal fans thread, I've long been curious about this notion that Roger didn't prepare at all for Montreal, and that's why his back went. Did he actually say that he didn't train? I ask honestly. I've always found it rather hard to believe that a professional like Roger would go from complete vacation to a MS1000. Especially a guy who has been so famous for managing his schedule well. I'm not saying I doubt it, I'm just looking for the confirmation.
 

GameSetAndMath

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There really isn't a way to answer your question. Maybe roughly the same? Even if 65 on grass is better than 81 on clay, what else do you have up your sleeve? That's just one factor among many.

I agree that it is one factor among many. But, your original challenge to attmole was to name some reasonable category and he did. Accept defeat graciously.
 
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Moxie

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I agree that it is one factor among many. But, your original challenge to attmole was to name some reasonable category and he did. Accept defeat graciously.
That's not exactly how it went down. Attomole asked what the criteria were. El Dude and I offered options. Attomole offered one, and actually suggested s/he'd come back with more counter-arguments. So far that hasn't happened. Atommole hasn't even countered with who they think should be the surface GOAT, if not Rafa. El Dude didn't lose the argument. I'd say his was prodding for more follow-up, as was promised, and I'd like to hear it, as well.

To the point of if 65 consecutive wins on grass is better than 81 on clay, there is a fallacy in the argument. Since neither streak is confined to one calendar season, it's hard to quantify the difference between a streak across 3 seasons and one across 5. It's a small point in a larger argument. I'd like to hear the rest.
 

Moxie

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Boy, I bet folks around here are pretty excited it's almost time for the tennis to start up again, so they can watch some sport besides you and me poking at each other endlessly. :lulz2: I think you can say "vastly superior" if you're comparing only the 3, which is perhaps what you intended, but didn't qualify. If you mean against the field, then, no.
Here's a thing I meant to add, and it has to do with comparison with the field. The reason that Roger and Novak have done so poorly on clay is that Nadal is so dominating on it. Likewise for Rafa off-clay. He's better enough than most to have won more without Roger and Novak to deal with. Surely at the YEC and the AO. They've all had to deal with playing in the same era v. 2 other all-time greats. Thus, they have divided up the spoils. Clay is only 1/3 of the calendar. Having to deal with 2 guys who dominate on HCs, esp. indoor, and one particularly on grass has made Nadal look lesser on them, but in any era when each had it to themselves, they'd have cleaned up.
 

monfed

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LOL look who is talking, one more Federer tard fanatic. Listen, I'm tired of people so pathetic like you and others, ridiculous, classless and trolls Federer's fans, they are too many so I hope the Swiss is not that kind of person though I have my doubts about it because the rocker likes the rock, the marijuana smoker likes the marijuana, the drunk likes the alcohol and etc etc, do you know what I mean??? that is exactly what I think!

giphy.webp
 
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GameSetAndMath

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Take your pick - career accomplishments, titles, dominance over peers, etc. How about this: I challenge you to come up with reasonable criteria that favors someone over Rafa as surface GOAT.
That's not exactly how it went down. Attomole asked what the criteria were. El Dude and I offered options. Attomole offered one, and actually suggested s/he'd come back with more counter-arguments. So far that hasn't happened. Atommole hasn't even countered with who they think should be the surface GOAT, if not Rafa. El Dude didn't lose the argument. I'd say his was prodding for more follow-up, as was promised, and I'd like to hear it, as well.

To the point of if 65 consecutive wins on grass is better than 81 on clay, there is a fallacy in the argument. Since neither streak is confined to one calendar season, it's hard to quantify the difference between a streak across 3 seasons and one across 5. It's a small point in a larger argument. I'd like to hear the rest.

Nope. El Dude openly challenged him to pick ANY single measure in which someone else is better at their surface than Rafa on clay. Attmole did it. Go back and reread the posts.
 

Nadalfan2013

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You are very right. Roger has more flair, while Nadal has more brawn.

Go watch ice skating or curling while you're at it while we watch UFC or American Football. Federer's style is feminine, Nadal's style is manly and epic.
 

atttomole

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It is obvious that Roger has the disadvantage in this era of fewer grass tournaments to play, which is much complained about by his fans. And has to be accounted for. However, this doesn't make up for Federer having lost more on grass than Rafa has on clay. If anything, it proves the point. There are so many more opportunities for Rafa to lose on clay than for Roger to lose on grass. But there it is. Is it easier to lose on grass than on clay? I think we'd all say yes. One drop of serve and that could be the set on grass. But I don't think even that makes up the difference in their results. Remember that most are trying to make Roger the overall GOAT, as well. He would be held to a high standard on grass, and he's had more stumbles than Rafa on clay...by rather a lot.

As I've said, there are more opportunities on clay, so, yes, the grass one is impressive, but so is 81 on clay. That's a close one, if you put it that way.
Both streaks are impressive. We already know the answer to why Roger has lost more on grass than Rafa on clay. On grass you can lose easily if the opponent is serving well. Sometimes you lose before you are even aware of it!! That makes Roger's streak of 65 truly astonishing. On clay you can easily fight for every point, which Nadal does better than anyone else. The serve is almost irrelevant on clay, while on grass, you may not have the chance to fight for points when the server is having a field day.

I still remember Krajcek taking out Sampras in 1996 in straight sets with top-drawer serving. In spite of his low seeding, Krajcek made Sampras look pedestrian on a surface he had not lost for 3 straight years. Another match that comes to mind is when Gulbis took out Berdych with lights-out serving in 2012 at Wimbledon.

Those differences make it difficult to crown a surface GOAT. On the other hand, I think Roger is the greatest player to ever play the game, regardless of slam total.
 
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atttomole

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There really isn't a way to answer your question. Maybe roughly the same? Even if 65 on grass is better than 81 on clay, what else do you have up your sleeve? That's just one factor among many.
The other one is the way the surfaces play. You know what happens on grass when you encounter a good server who is firing on all cylinders. In a situation like that, you have little or no chance to fight for the points. You can only hope for a drop in the opponent's serve.
 
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