Nadalites – Rafa Nadal Talk

MargaretMcAleer

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For me, Rafa should have saved himself for the USO because it has been his best tournament outside of RG. He knew Novak , Carlos would be totally SPENT afterwards playing the channel slams plus the French Games which Sinner was wise not to participate. The Laver Cup is a glorified exhibition which I have NEVER been interested in watching even though it came to Chicago. As a Nadal fan, 2024 was the worst year!
I take your point as a Nadal fan 2024 being a bad year, coming back from hip surgery and at his age is a long process, most players would have retired now with the amount of times Rafa had, remember he is 38 yo, and injuries at his age take longer to heal. In regards to Laver Cup, from what I what I heard he did it as a favor to Federer, who as you are aware has interests in the Laver Cup. Also Rafa is doing another exhibition in October 16-19th called The Saudi Six Kings' other players involved Novak, Alcaraz, Meddy Sinner and Rune
 

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For me, Rafa should have saved himself for the USO because it has been his best tournament outside of RG. He knew Novak , Carlos would be totally SPENT afterwards playing the channel slams plus the French Games which Sinner was wise not to participate. The Laver Cup is a glorified exhibition which I have NEVER been interested in watching even though it came to Chicago. As a Nadal fan, 2024 was the worst year!
Rafa wasn't getting past the 4th round of the US Open even if he had played and the best case scenario happened. Even with Novak and Carlos out, if Rafa had an easy path like Borges did, guys like Sinner, Medvedev, Zverev, and Tiafoe would have been way too good for this version of Rafa. Remember, Tiafoe even beat Rafa here in 2022, the last time Rafa was his real self and won the first 2 slams that year.
 
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the AntiPusher

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Rafa wasn't getting past the 4th round of the US Open even if he had played and the best case scenario happened. Even with Novak and Carlos out, if Rafa had an easy path like Borges did, guys like Sinner, Medvedev, Zverev, and Tiafoe would have been way too good for this version of Rafa. Remember, Tiafoe even beat Rafa here in 2022, the last time Rafa was his real self and won the first 2 slams that year.
If Tiafoe played Rafa Jan-June 2022 Rafa would have destroyed Tiafoe.. no excuses Tiafoe won later in the year although Rafa had NO BUSINESS losing to Frances
 

Moxie

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Rafa wasn't getting past the 4th round of the US Open even if he had played and the best case scenario happened. Even with Novak and Carlos out, if Rafa had an easy path like Borges did, guys like Sinner, Medvedev, Zverev, and Tiafoe would have been way too good for this version of Rafa. Remember, Tiafoe even beat Rafa here in 2022, the last time Rafa was his real self and won the first 2 slams that year.
You don't know this. You're the guy that thought the Olympics was a good idea for Rafa. Credit to @the AntiPusher. He was campaigning all along for Rafa to skip the OG and get himself ready for the USO. Which surely looks like it would have been a better idea, even if Rafa had fun at the Olympics. I don't care what you say...with 2 of the 3 big guns out, it surely is more winnable than we expected. Yes, he could have gone out earlier, or lost in late rounds, but 3 months to train and recoup after the FO would have been better. Just giving AP his props for what looks like the greater wisdom.
 

MargaretMcAleer

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AP, if you are around you will like this current news, as I know you werent keen on Rafa playing in the Laver Cup

Rafa has withdrawn from the Laver Cup!

Here is Rafa's statement,

"I'm really disappointed to share that I wont be able to compete at the Laver Cup next week in Berlin" This is a team competition and to really support Team Europe, I need to do whats best for them and at this moment there are other players who can help the team deliver the win".

Rafa' next scheduled event is that "Six Kings Slam exho, " in Saudi Arabia starting October 16

Just read some updated news,

Rafa said he hasnt any injury concerns at all, regarding his withdrawal from the Laver Cup
 
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PhiEaglesfan712

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Sad to say, but Rafa's is all but officially done. This almost feels like Sampras after the 2002 US Open and Federer after 2021 Wimbledon. It might take a while for him to officially retire, but it's highly likely he has already played his last official match (against Djokovic at the Olympics).
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Sad to say, but Rafa's is all but officially done. This almost feels like Sampras after the 2002 US Open and Federer after 2021 Wimbledon. It might take a while for him to officially retire, but it's highly likely he has already played his last official match (against Djokovic at the Olympics).
Oh please lets wait for official news from Rafa when he is officially retiring okay ? before you have him retired officially
He is set to play an exho in Saudi Arabia in October if you have read the news I posted
Rafa also said he is not withdrawing from Laver Cup because of any injury!
Actually I am not surprised he is withdrawing from Laver Cup, Federer was on social media and said he had a phone call from Rafa last week, he didnt disclose much in their conversation, I am sure Rafa told Roger he wont be playing Laver Cup, seeing Roger has interests in Laver Cup
 
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MargaretMcAleer

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Rafa has been named on the preliminary list for the Davis Cup Finals Spanish Team ( source Olly@Olly_Tennis)
 
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Moxie

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One for the fans:

@Fiero425 ...what do you mean, laughing at this? I put this on the Nadal fans forum for a reason, and you are on my last nerve with being rude about your Nadal hatred, at this particular moment. Jealous because some of these records probably ARE untouchable? Why don't you stop being such an a-hole, for a change?
 
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El Dude

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One for the fans:

Here's my wild guess, in order of least to most likely to be "touched."
  1. 14 titles at one Grand Slam - I just can't see anyone ever matching this. I mean, anything is possible, but to me this is Rafa's most untouchable record - or at least his most distinctive.
  2. Win % in best-of-5 on clay (97.1%) - this is arguably more untouchable than the above.
  3. Most titles on clay (63) - a half step behind the first two, only because a "21st century Vilas" (or Muster) could theoretically come along and dominate lower clay titles. Still very, very unlikely.
  4. Most wins against the #1 (23) - This one is a step down, but still probably untouchable - because it combines not only requisite greatness but also a certain combination of other factors: namely, several truly great players playing at the same time - but not too many (or too few). If you had one guy who dominated, he would be #1 all the time and therefore never have a chance to beat the #1 (e.g. Roger in 2004-08); if you had too many #1s swapping around, then one of them wouldn't be great enough to be beating everyone else a lot without being number one. I suppose Alcaraz and Sinner could swap the role for the next 8+ years and one have have the match-up edge and get there, but it would be difficult.
  5. Youngest to win Golden Slam - this one is probably untouchable just because it requires timing, in addition to ability. Meaning, the Olympics has to come at just the right time in combination with enough Slams won. Alcaraz missed the cut, unfortunately, because he'll be 25 at the next Olympics.
  6. 10 titles at four tournaments - this will be hard to touch, but is a bit more possible.
  7. Most consecutive wins on a single surface (81 matches on clay) - a great record, but touchable, though very very difficult.
  8. Most consecutive years winning a Grand Slam (10) - this seems inevitable, though Rafa did it largely through owning Roland Garros, but a player like Alcaraz could do it through being so balanced on surfaces, but also because he seems to go through multiple hot periods in a year. 3 down, 7 to go!
  9. Clay Slam - also great, but also touchable. Muster came close in 95 (1 GS, 2 Mas) but didn't play in Hamburg. But probably the most touchable of the nine.
I'd say 1-3 are truly untouchable, 4-6 may or may not be every touched but could easily hold for decades to come. 7-9 will be hard to touch, but more possible.

Already Touched
  • Most titles as a teenager - this is a record if they mean in a single year (11 in 2005), but not "as a teenager" like it is written, as Borg has one more (17 to 16).
  • Grand Slam title on every surface (clay, hard, grass) in one year - Novak did this in 2021. The article got it wrong about Laver in 1969, because the USO was on grass.
  • Completing the Grand Slam twice - Laver and Novak both did this.
 
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Moxie

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Here's my wild guess, in order of least to most likely to be "touched."
I think you did a good job of ordering them. I'll add a few comments
  1. 14 titles at one Grand Slam - I just can't see anyone ever matching this. I mean, anything is possible, but to me this is Rafa's most untouchable record - or at least his most distinctive.
Definitely the most distinctive, because it's a Major. As a lot of players pointed out when honoring the achievement, first of all you have to qualify for one Major at least 14 times, which, by itself is a thing. As we go down this list, we have to note that it takes a long career to get to some of these numbers, which is already a hump to get over, and then play consistently great for that long. It is possible that Novak could get to 14 at the AO, though that's looking unlikely. But even still, it's not at RG, so that record will stand for a long time. (I guess 14 years in the minimum, at this point, given that Alcaraz is young, and has a streak of one.) Like you, though, believe this record won't be beaten.
2. Win % in best-of-5 on clay (97.1%) - this is arguably more untouchable than the above.
137-4 in Bo5 on clay has to be untouchable, for two reasons. The first is obvious, (in that it's mind-boggling,) and the second is that Nadal played in an era when DC and MS1000 finals were also played in Bo5, so there was more opportunity. But as to the win pct., even if you put the minimum number of matches at, say, 50, (which is the equivalent of 7 French Opens+,) it would be hard to see someone beating 97.1% over a career. Djokovic, by comparison, who has won the French Open 3 times, has an 85.19% (92-16) win rate in Bo5 there. I don't know how many other clay Bo5 he played and won, but it can't be many, and there are likely to have been losses.
3. Most titles on clay (63) - a half step behind the first two, only because a "21st century Vilas" (or Muster) could theoretically come along and dominate lower clay titles. Still very, very unlikely.
If someone else gets 63+ titles on clay, of the quality of the ones that Rafa won, more power to them. Because if they're filled out with 250's, etc., like Vila's were, it won't be looked upon as the same. But I take your point.
4. Most wins against the #1 (23) - This one is a step down, but still probably untouchable - because it combines not only requisite greatness but also a certain combination of other factors: namely, several truly great players playing at the same time - but not too many (or too few). If you had one guy who dominated, he would be #1 all the time and therefore never have a chance to beat the #1 (e.g. Roger in 2004-08); if you had too many #1s swapping around, then one of them wouldn't be great enough to be beating everyone else a lot without being number one. I suppose Alcaraz and Sinner could swap the role for the next 8+ years and one have have the match-up edge and get there, but it would be difficult.
To be fair about this stat, Rafa spent 3 solid years as #2 to Roger's #1, when he was beating Fed a lot. That popped out to me, right away. And then there was a lot of trading #1/2/3 between the Big 3. As you say, it takes truly great players playing at the same time, so when you Rafa was #2 or #3, and beat #1, that was also about the timing of the win and their rankings. But, again, that's why it could be hard to match. It would be sort of pathetic if you had a player who beats #1s regularly, but doesn't get to #1 often enough to off-set the number.
5. Youngest to win Golden Slam - this one is probably untouchable just because it requires timing, in addition to ability. Meaning, the Olympics has to come at just the right time in combination with enough Slams won. Alcaraz missed the cut, unfortunately, because he'll be 25 at the next Olympics.
With the Olympics, it's a lot about timing, and Rafa was hitting a peak in 2008, which also happened to be an Olympic year. Still, he completed the career-Slam in 2010, at 24, so that's still younger than Laver, in the Open Era. However, as has been pointed out, Alcaraz can do that one younger, either this coming AO, or at either of the next 2 after that.
6. 10 titles at four tournaments - this will be hard to touch, but is a bit more possible.
7. Most consecutive wins on a single surface (81 matches on clay) - a great record, but touchable, though very very difficult.
8. Most consecutive years winning a Grand Slam (10) - this seems inevitable, though Rafa did it largely through owning Roland Garros, but a player like Alcaraz could do it through being so balanced on surfaces, but also because he seems to go through multiple hot periods in a year. 3 down, 7 to go!
9. Clay Slam - also great, but also touchable. Muster came close in 95 (1 GS, 2 Mas) but didn't play in Hamburg. But probably the most touchable of the nine.
I'd say 1-3 are truly untouchable, 4-6 may or may not be every touched but could easily hold for decades to come. 7-9 will be hard to touch, but more possible.

Already Touched
  • Most titles as a teenager - this is a record if they mean in a single year (11 in 2005), but not "as a teenager" like it is written, as Borg has one more (17 to 16).
  • Grand Slam title on every surface (clay, hard, grass) in one year - Novak did this in 2021. The article got it wrong about Laver in 1969, because the USO was on grass.
  • Completing the Grand Slam twice - Laver and Novak both did this.
I'll leave the rest, because I have nothing to add to your assessment. As I said, I agree with how you rank them.
 

El Dude

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Just a side note, @Moxie , Gill Gross said in a recent video that he has a somewhat different view on Slam count - that as impressive as the "20+ Club" is, dwarfing even Sampras at 14, it has to be contextualized by era - especially advancements in health, training, and other factors. The point being that it is hard to project forward too much. 20-24 Slams is mind-boggling considering the first 55 years of the Open Era, but might be viewed differently in another 55 years.

Now where I might question Gross is that we don't know how tennis will change, or what results those changes will yield on the record books. We can assume that longevity in sports will continue to advance - and there's no telling what sort of medical advancements will occur, and how those might impact longevity. I mean, Alcaraz and Sinner have the benefit of learning from the Big Three, all of whom won Slams after turning 35 years old (though all were at their very best in their 20s). Maybe Carlos and Jannik become the first players to win Slams after turning 40...not predicting that, but it is conceivable. Or it could be that the Big Three are truly outliers, and we're going back to an era of "garden variety greats" winning 6-8 Slams, with the occasional 10-15 guy every couple decades. Who knows..though I tend to veer towards the former as more likely.

Meaning, the Big Three aren't the culmination of tennis history. I mean, they are up to this point. But history continues, and 50 years from now they may be viewed as new standard setters more than the end of tennis evolution - really not unlike how Connors and Borg changed the sport 45-50 years ago. In other words, the Big Three brought men's tennis up an octave, and sports generally don't tend to "devolve" back. This would theoretically impact at least some of these "untouchable" records. In the context of Rafa, I'd say his 14 Roland Garros titles is a lot safer than, say, Novak's 24 overall Slams - if only that we're more likely to see a guy win 25 Slams within the next half century than we are to see someone win 15 of a single Slam. I mean, math!
 

Moxie

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Just a side note, @Moxie , Gill Gross said in a recent video that he has a somewhat different view on Slam count - that as impressive as the "20+ Club" is, dwarfing even Sampras at 14, it has to be contextualized by era - especially advancements in health, training, and other factors. The point being that it is hard to project forward too much. 20-24 Slams is mind-boggling considering the first 55 years of the Open Era, but might be viewed differently in another 55 years.

Now where I might question Gross is that we don't know how tennis will change, or what results those changes will yield on the record books. We can assume that longevity in sports will continue to advance - and there's no telling what sort of medical advancements will occur, and how those might impact longevity. I mean, Alcaraz and Sinner have the benefit of learning from the Big Three, all of whom won Slams after turning 35 years old (though all were at their very best in their 20s). Maybe Carlos and Jannik become the first players to win Slams after turning 40...not predicting that, but it is conceivable. Or it could be that the Big Three are truly outliers, and we're going back to an era of "garden variety greats" winning 6-8 Slams, with the occasional 10-15 guy every couple decades. Who knows..though I tend to veer towards the former as more likely.

Meaning, the Big Three aren't the culmination of tennis history. I mean, they are up to this point. But history continues, and 50 years from now they may be viewed as new standard setters more than the end of tennis evolution - really not unlike how Connors and Borg changed the sport 45-50 years ago. In other words, the Big Three brought men's tennis up an octave, and sports generally don't tend to "devolve" back. This would theoretically impact at least some of these "untouchable" records. In the context of Rafa, I'd say his 14 Roland Garros titles is a lot safer than, say, Novak's 24 overall Slams - if only that we're more likely to see a guy win 25 Slams within the next half century than we are to see someone win 15 of a single Slam. I mean, math!
I totally appreciate that Gil Gross feels that he needs to give us hope that there could be more exciting tennis in our future, (which I believe there is,) and record breaking of Majors, which I'm less sure of. Yes, technology and better nutrition and care for their bodies has made athletes endure longer, and perform better. But there is a limit, isn't there?

There's a yes, and a no to this. I still think that Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are outliers in the sport...spectacularly good, and they existed in the same time. That is very rare. Tell me the other best long-term triumvirate in men's tennis. At the same time, with all of the technology and benefits of having fitness trainers, etc., look at how many otherwise non-starters we have in men's tennis, in the intervening years. We have two entire generations that we call "Lost." They have all the same benefits of technology and fitness training. Definitely, they're not as talented as the Big 3, but they're also lacking something else.

I do think that Alcaraz and Sinner are showing something better, but how far does it go? 25 Major is 6+ solid years of winning Majors. As I pointed out above, part of Nadal's seemingly unbeatable records is the length of his career, so as their careers go longer, very talented players can challenge the records of the big 3. But, at some point, I do see a limit. That may be the limit of my imagination. For a men's tennis player to challenge the records of Federer/Nadal/Djokovic, they will have to a) start very young; b) get to the top early and stay there a long time; c) stay reasonably healthy, and d) have a good enough rival, or 2, to keep things interesting and to keep them hungry. As to my point D, maybe not: if someone simply has no rivals, perhaps they can just dominate for enough years. Personally, I would be too bored to watch that.
 

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I totally appreciate that Gil Gross feels that he needs to give us hope that there could be more exciting tennis in our future, (which I believe there is,) and record breaking of Majors, which I'm less sure of. Yes, technology and better nutrition and care for their bodies has made athletes endure longer, and perform better. But there is a limit, isn't there?

There's a yes, and a no to this. I still think that Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are outliers in the sport...spectacularly good, and they existed in the same time. That is very rare. Tell me the other best long-term triumvirate in men's tennis. At the same time, with all of the technology and benefits of having fitness trainers, etc., look at how many otherwise non-starters we have in men's tennis, in the intervening years. We have two entire generations that we call "Lost." They have all the same benefits of technology and fitness training. Definitely, they're not as talented as the Big 3, but they're also lacking something else.

I do think that Alcaraz and Sinner are showing something better, but how far does it go? 25 Major is 6+ solid years of winning Majors. As I pointed out above, part of Nadal's seemingly unbeatable records is the length of his career, so as their careers go longer, very talented players can challenge the records of the big 3. But, at some point, I do see a limit. That may be the limit of my imagination. For a men's tennis player to challenge the records of Federer/Nadal/Djokovic, they will have to a) start very young; b) get to the top early and stay there a long time; c) stay reasonably healthy, and d) have a good enough rival, or 2, to keep things interesting and to keep them hungry. As to my point D, maybe not: if someone simply has no rivals, perhaps they can just dominate for enough years. Personally, I would be too bored to watch that.
I hear you, and just to be clear, I'm not sold on Gil Gross' assertion (or hypothetical, really) that 25+ Slams is achievable, even probable, in the next 50 years. I mean, I think it is possible, but probable? I cannot say. I think one part of the 20 Club is...each other. As we've discussed before, it is hard to know how each effected each other.

I think the larger point, though, that I'm extrapolating from Gross--and aligns with something I've said before--is that talent comes in waves or cycles. Some waves are small, some large--with infinite possible variation. The Big Three (Four, really) wave, or waves, was enormous. Roger was like a gradually building wave that became a massive tidal monstrosity, and perhaps stood out so much because the previous waves of players were relatively modest. And then he was joined by two more massive waves in Rafa and Novak and the combination was unlike anything we've seen.

Or was it? Was the Connors-Borg-McEnroe-Lendl combined waves really that much less? None had the longevity of prime levels, but in terms of intensity? I've said before that I think the peaks of those four--especially the latter three--are, at the very least, close to the Big Three. Borg in 79-80, McEnroe in 84, Lendl in 86-87. Shorter than Federer in 04-07, Rafa's surges in 08/10/13, Novak in 11-16, but comparably as dominant -- relative to the era and context.

So maybe what Gross is saying is that tidal waves will come again. Even if Sinner and Alcaraz end up not being quite as mighty, we'll see mega-talents again...someday. And it may be that when that happens, the context will have shifted towards even longer primes.

Again, who knows. For now I'm actually rather enjoying the new era. You might remember I was complaining about Big Four fatigue way back in 2014-15ish...maybe before. Roger's resurgence in 2017 reignited my enjoyment, but even so I was becoming more and more interested in seeing the shift and what came after the Big Four Era. Well, it has arrived - and it is an interesting configuration, with a wide range of talent - and, I think, a wider pool of mid-range talent than we've seen in awhile (meaning, after the Big Two, there are a couple dozen players that are rather interesting, with enough talent to make things a bit interesting...and young guys continue to show up on the radar, which is a welcome change from the Dark Years of young talent in the 2010s).
 

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@Fiero425 ...what do you mean, laughing at this? I put this on the Nadal fans forum for a reason, and you are on my last nerve with being rude about your Nadal hatred, at this particular moment. Jealous because some of these records probably ARE untouchable? Why don't you stop being such an a-hole, for a change?
I am curious as to whether there is a similar list for Roger or for Novak. Obviously, one has the record at Wimbledon and the other has the record down in Melbourne, but I wonder if there are some records that may be considered unapproachable. I think Novak with 10 Australian open championships is probably just a slight level below what Rafael has done in Paris. His total weeks at number one blew by Rogers record which itself blew by Pete's record. I would think the number of weeks Novak has been a number one is a largely untouchable record because somebody would have to play an be number one for over a decade to accomplish this and that is a tall ask. Roger may have in untouchable one with respect to 237 straight weeks as number one and I thought he waiting three majors a year three separate times was probably not going to be matched by anybody and then Novak has gone in done it for four years! I have a hard time believing we will see another player in our lifetime do what Novak has done with respect to winning the career slam three times over. I know that Novak also has the master's shield record by a long way now and he is one all of them I believe twice over, when not even Roger or Rafael even one all of then one time in their career. At any rate, I am sure someone here can find all of that kind of stuff.
 
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Moxie

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I am curious as to whether there is a similar list for Roger or for Novak. Obviously, one has the record at Wimbledon and the other has the record down in Melbourne, but I wonder if there are some records that may be considered unapproachable. I think Novak with 10 Australian open championships is probably just a slight level below what Rafael has done in Paris. His total weeks at number one blew by Rogers record which itself blew by Pete's record. I would think the number of weeks Novak has been a number one is a largely untouchable record because somebody would have to play an be number one for over a decade to accomplish this and that is a tall ask. Roger may have in untouchable one with respect to 237 straight weeks as number one and I thought he waiting three majors a year three separate times was probably not going to be matched by anybody and then Novak has gone in done it for four years! I have a hard time believing we will see another player in our lifetime do what Novak has done with respect to winning the career slam three times over. I know that Novak also has the master's shield record by a long way now and he is one all of them I believe twice over, when not even Roger or Rafael even one all of then one time in their career. At any rate, I am sure someone here can find all of that kind of stuff.
Oh, I'm rather sorry you chose to quote that rude post, (though Fiero deserved it! LOL.) Anyway, I was thinking it would be good to do the same for Roger and Novak. I think you hit the highlights. I still think that Roger's consecutive weeks at #1 is a tough one to beat. It's basically 4.5 solid years at #1. I hope it won't be...it's a bit boring to have only one #1 for that long. He also still has men's record number of Wimbledon titles, unless Novak manages 1 or 2 more, which seems ever less likely. The list of Novak's records is also very good, I'd say, meaning that you nailed the big ones. As I said above, to El Dude, you have to play a long time, and at a very high and consistent level to hit these kinds of records.

I know that in sports, records are made to be broken, but these are some pretty impressive ones, and many of the ones set by the Big 3 will take some years to break. And some might not be.
 
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El Dude

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I am curious as to whether there is a similar list for Roger or for Novak.
The short answer is no. Rafa is a bit different than the other two because of his clay dominance. Almost all of the records listed above are either directly or indirectly tied to his clay prowess.

This is not a knock on Rafa, but he's essentially a clay specialist, while Roger and Novak are generalists, with Novak possibly being the most "surface balanced" player ever, or at least in the Open Era. But Rafa's "untouchableness" is due to cornering the clay market for most of 18 years - and at a level previously unforeseen, or at least for that long (Borg was almost as dominant on clay, just for about a third the time Rafa was, and without focusing on clay like Rafa did).
 

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The short answer is no. Rafa is a bit different than the other two because of his clay dominance. Almost all of the records listed above are either directly or indirectly tied to his clay prowess.

This is not a knock on Rafa, but he's essentially a clay specialist, while Roger and Novak are generalists, with Novak possibly being the most "surface balanced" player ever, or at least in the Open Era. But Rafa's "untouchableness" is due to cornering the clay market for most of 18 years - and at a level previously unforeseen, or at least for that long (Borg was almost as dominant on clay, just for about a third the time Rafa was, and without focusing on clay like Rafa did).
I can't believe that you can post, with a straight face, that Rafa is essentially "a clay specialist," after all these years. Don't moan at me, but I do object. Yes, he was a million times better than everyone on clay, but he won 8 Majors not on clay. You could also say that Roger was a grass specialist. He was! He was magnificent on grass, which is a very specific surface to play on, with a limited footprint on the calendar, anymore. As we've discussed before, with the Majors being divided on 3 surfaces, and the Big 3 having different strengths, it would always shake down to where strengths lie, and the competition. Rafa is as much a "generalist" as Roger and Novak, in the grand scheme. But they happened to be generally better on HCs. And they bookended his career. It's nice for them that there are more HC tournaments in his era, but that doesn't make them more all-surface players than he was. Yes, later in Rafa's career, Novak was able to pull off 3 RG titles. He is excellent on clay, no doubt. Roger, great as he was, squeaked out one. How does that make him a "generalist," by comparison? At least Rafa has the double-career Slam. Your "clay is different" prejudice is showing, if I may say so. Grass is even more so these day, is it not?

I totally get that Rafa has such untouchable-looking records due to clay dominance. But dominance is dominance, and clay is a surface that tennis is played on. They each had to be better at something than the others to do what they did. Too bad for Roger and Novak (and the rest of the field) that Rafa was just so much better on clay than they all were. You say it's not a knock on Rafa, and then you add "but...." There are no "buts." Some of what Rafa did in tennis is untouchable, full stop. You can't qualify it by making it about clay, to his detriment.