Nadal: Fear Factor

[dante1976]

When he speaks during interviews, he seems to have wisdom

Hahahahaha... good one mate

 

[Kieran]

He's 29, or 30 in three and a half months.

Exactly. I'm not sure what people are expecting, his decline is natural. Unfortunate, but very much par for the course in that game...

 

[mrzz]

People mentioned the spin, and I would guess his average spin has declined, even if sometimes he hits exactly as before. Why sometimes? Because, as others has noticed far before me, his footwork and speed are not the same anymore. When he is in position, he can fire those forehands that make everyone think, for a split moment, that he's "back". But he misses the next, and the next...

But he is too great a player just to stand there looking for answers. His tennis IQ is huge, to say the least. The point is, is there a possible answer, and will he find it soon enough?

(by the way, don't even think I am something close to a Nadal fan. I root against him match in, match out. But I am not blind).

 

[Carol]

Decline means when someone little by little loses the mojo, the strength, the success, doing still well but not so brilliant like before but the way Rafa is playing is not 'decline', I would call it 'falling into the abyss' which is very different :nono

 

[Carol]

When he speaks during interviews, he seems to have wisdom

Hahahahaha... good one mate

Have you heard Novak during interviews? ....then you can laugh even more :snicker

 

[Luxilon Borg]

He's 29, or 30 in three and a half months.

Yikes, I am a year behind..none the less.

 

[Front242]

Fear of stain the underpants, no? Iz the true. Iz why I itch the crack often, no?

Too much spicy food?

Probably. Too much tapas gives him crapas :snicker

 

[Carol]

It's much better to eat tapas than Swiss crap food

 

[Puppet Master]

Came here to reply to a private message for some reason, and look what we have here. Federer goes under the knife, Nadal goes under the damn bed and pisses himself... Wow, can someone pinch me, this cannot be real. Guess I should just continue with my break, sorry that I went without a goodbye after the AO.

 

[dante1976]

When he speaks during interviews, he seems to have wisdom

Hahahahaha... good one mate

Have you heard Novak during interviews? ....then you can laugh even more :snicker

Well he used to be "fun" (yeah I know, still debatable) but now when he's dominating no1 PR took advantage of him, no?
Rafa on the other hand can't even learn to speak proper English (!?) and he's been on tour/dominating for 10+ years.
Guy is a great champion, natural born fighter, humblito and much more but... wise in any possible meaning... hardly

 

[Carol]

Hahahahaha... good one mate

Have you heard Novak during interviews? ....then you can laugh even more :snicker

Well he used to be "fun" (yeah I know, still debatable) but now when he's dominating no1 PR took advantage of him, no?
Rafa on the other hand can't even learn to speak proper English (!?) and he's been on tour/dominating for 10+ years.
Guy is a great champion, natural born fighter, humblito and much more but... wise in any possible meaning... hardly

Come on, don't start with the same silly thing, first at all Rafa speaks good English but with a strong accent like all of us (the Spaniards). My neighbor talks 5 different languages but he talks the most stupid things than I can hear around. I see that you see the wisdom in very different way :snicker :cover

 

[El Dude]

As bad as Rafa is relative to his best, he's still #5 in the world - that means he's been better than everyone but Novak, Andy, Roger, and Stan. I think what is shocking about that ranking is that he's fully healthy. He's dropped down out of the #1-2 range before, but it was always due to missed time. Rafa's been healthy for over a year now.

Anyhow, I've said it before as have others, but I think this clay season will make or break the rest of his career. If he does well, wins a Master or two or even the French Open, then it could re-invigorate him and we could see two or three more years. If he struggles, doesn't win a big tournament and/or goes out earlyish in the FO, then I wouldn't be surprised to see him retire after this year, or maybe give it one more shot next.

I'm trying to think like Rafa. If it becomes clear he can't return to at least the #2-3 range and win another Slam or two, then endless summer days in Mallorca with Xisca look even more appealing.

 

[herios]

As bad as Rafa is relative to his best, he's still #5 in the world - that means he's been better than everyone but Novak, Andy, Roger, and Stan. .

Not this year.

 

[Fiero425]

As bad as Rafa is relative to his best, he's still #5 in the world - that means he's been better than everyone but Novak, Andy, Roger, and Stan. .

Not this year.

Anything but being at the top is not acceptable to a real ATG! That's why Roger's still fighting; thinking he can still get the job done! For the most part he's playing as well as he ever has and is only having serious trouble with one player; NOLE! Rafa in his position of #5 in the world can't say the same! Ferrer's been as high as #4 IIRC; SO? Unless Rafa is challenging for Majors, he's wasting his time and the adulation of his fans as the losses begin to pile up from players who's claim to fame is only for beating him! If Qatar is any indication of how competitive he is against Nole, then to lose against Thiem on clay last week, how's he supposed to survive the early Rds @ Masters events next month? uzzled

 

[the AntiPusher]

It's not because of Fear but a lack of confidence. Rafa doesn't have his quickness, speed , or his killer fh. Until he regains confidence in those 3 parts of his game, he may continue to struggle, IMO

 

[Kieran]

As bad as Rafa is relative to his best, he's still #5 in the world - that means he's been better than everyone but Novak, Andy, Roger, and Stan. I think what is shocking about that ranking is that he's fully healthy. He's dropped down out of the #1-2 range before, but it was always due to missed time. Rafa's been healthy for over a year now.

I think that if Rafa found his way to the latter stages of a slam, he'd dispatch 3 of those 4 players, it's only Novak who's beyond him at the moment. But if he was playing well enough to get to the second week of a slam, I wouldn't worry about Federer, Murray or Stan. A huge problem is that nobody can trust Rafa to get through the rounds. He needs to find consistency, and yes, confidence, which is huge at this level. It's not irretrievable though.

As for him being healthy, he is and that's not an issue, but the cycle of injury and withdrawal then recovery has taken its toll. He hasn't been anywhere near his best in a long time. And by the way, this is natural. 29-30 years old is ancient in tennis terms, especially when players have high achievements and a lot of miles on the clock. So he might have found himself like this, anyway. Sampras did. Borg was already gone. It's not an easy sport to maintain the stamina and endurance to deal with the everyday grind...

 

[10isfan]

[/quote]

29-30 years old is ancient in tennis terms, especially when players have high achievements and a lot of miles on the clock. So he might have found himself like this, anyway. Sampras did. Borg was already gone. It's not an easy sport to maintain the stamina and endurance to deal with the everyday grind...
[/quote]

This is exactly why Fed is the undisputed GOAT, in my opinion!

 

[Carol]

29-30 years old is ancient in tennis terms, especially when players have high achievements and a lot of miles on the clock. So he might have found himself like this, anyway. Sampras did. Borg was already gone. It's not an easy sport to maintain the stamina and endurance to deal with the everyday grind...
[/quote]

This is exactly why Fed is the undisputed GOAT, in my opinion!
[/quote]

Then according to you Connors is the GOAT!

 

[El Dude]

As bad as Rafa is relative to his best, he's still #5 in the world - that means he's been better than everyone but Novak, Andy, Roger, and Stan. .

Not this year.

True, he's #22 in the Race to London rankings, but it is February 17 - Rafa has played all of 10 matches, going 7-3. That said, the highest ranked player he has beaten is then #52 Paolo Lorenzi. Rio is actually somewhat important as a way of assessing where he's at. He won his first match against Pablo Carreno Busta, and faces a more moderate challenge in Nicolas Almagro tomorrow. But if he wins Rio, he's back in the top 10 year-to-date.

Anything but being at the top is not acceptable to a real ATG! That's why Roger's still fighting; thinking he can still get the job done! For the most part he's playing as well as he ever has and is only having serious trouble with one player; NOLE! Rafa in his position of #5 in the world can't say the same! Ferrer's been as high as #4 IIRC; SO? Unless Rafa is challenging for Majors, he's wasting his time and the adulation of his fans as the losses begin to pile up from players who's claim to fame is only for beating him! If Qatar is any indication of how competitive he is against Nole, then to lose against Thiem on clay last week, how's he supposed to survive the early Rds @ Masters events next month? uzzled

It does seem that all-time greats retire quicker than other players, perhaps because they have less tolerance for the slow and painful decline...Mats Wilander being a notable exception. Maybe I should do a study on this at some point.

As for Roger, one difference is that he's more prone to the occasional upset than he was in his prime, especially at Slams. He wouldn't have lost to Andreas Seppi even just four years ago. His 2014-present form, while better than 2013, is still a half step behind his declined 2010-12 form, in my opinion.

But yeah, if Rafa doesn't go deeper in Slams this year I think he's kaput.

I think that if Rafa found his way to the latter stages of a slam, he'd dispatch 3 of those 4 players, it's only Novak who's beyond him at the moment. But if he was playing well enough to get to the second week of a slam, I wouldn't worry about Federer, Murray or Stan. A huge problem is that nobody can trust Rafa to get through the rounds. He needs to find consistency, and yes, confidence, which is huge at this level. It's not irretrievable though.

That's a big "if," Kieran. The last time he got to the second week of a Slam was Roland Garros last year, his best surface, and he got to the QF by beating mainly non-top 20 players: Halys, Almagro, Kuznetsov, Sock. The 2015 AO was similar - he got to the QF by beating a decrepit Youzhny, Tim Smyczek, Dudi Sela, and then Kevin Anderson. Anderson can be quite dangerous, but it says something when he's the best player Rafa has beaten at a Slam since he beat Novak in the 2014 French Open.

I hear what you are saying, but to me it sounds like you're holding onto 2014...he really hasn't been that player who we can say "if he is playing well enough to get to the second week of a Slam" for a couple years now, except for brief moments and quick exits from the first week a couple times last year.

As for him being healthy, he is and that's not an issue, but the cycle of injury and withdrawal then recovery has taken its toll. He hasn't been anywhere near his best in a long time. And by the way, this is natural. 29-30 years old is ancient in tennis terms, especially when players have high achievements and a lot of miles on the clock. So he might have found himself like this, anyway. Sampras did. Borg was already gone. It's not an easy sport to maintain the stamina and endurance to deal with the everyday grind...

Yes, exactly. One of my many studies in progress involves researching the rankings of various players when they turned different ages. Both Rafa and Roger were #1 on their 28th birthday. Roger dropped to #3 on his 29th birthday, and Rafa was at #7. Novak will actually b #1 on his 29th birthday, but most great players were falling by this point.

It is the inevitable way of things...

 

[El Dude]

Then according to you Connors is the GOAT!

I can't speak for 10sfan, but this is a bit off. First of all, Roger was better than Connors in their respective primes. Secondly, while both aged well and played in an elite form into their mid-30s, Roger has been a bit better than Jimmy was. Roger's 2016 is the same, age-wise, as Jimmy's 1987. Compare:

Age 32-33:
Roger: 2014, Slams - SF, 4R, F, SF, #2
Jimmy: 1985, Slams - SF, SF, SF, #4

Age 33-34:
Roger: 2015, Slams - 3R, QF, F, F, #3
Jimmy: 1986, Salms - 1R, 3R, #8

Age 34-35:
Roger: 2016, Slam SF so far, current ranking #3
Jimmy: 1987, Slams - SF, SF, QF, #4

Jimmy dropped to #7 in 1988, #14 in 1989, and then was pretty much out of elite status except for his famous SF run at the 1991 US Open. Obviously we don't know how Roger will do next year and in 2017, or even if he'll still be playing. Even if he declines at a similar rate, Roger has still been a better player in his early-to-mid 30s than Connors was.

In a way, Roger is similar to Connors in terms of overall career trajectory, but just better.