Mutua Madrid Open ATP1000 02-11 May 2014

[MargaretMcAleer]

RE: Matua Madrid Open ATP1000 02-11 May 2014

Just reading on twitter that Novak was supposed to arrive in Madrid on Saturday night but he has delayed his arrival so he can see his doctor in Monte Carlo tomorrow. Marca are reporting that he's having more tests on his wrist. It's uncertain whether he will play or not. He will decide on Sunday.

http://www.marca.com/2014/05/03/tenis/1399138846.html

Thanks for posting.Read that article in Marca.Seeing Novak dosen't have points to defend in Madrid,I honestly think he should skip Madrid.I feel he is risking his wrist if he decides to play.

 

[Kirijax]

RE: Matua Madrid Open ATP1000 02-11 May 2014

Starting to sound more and more like he'll be skipping Madrid.

 

[Moxie]

RE: Matua Madrid Open ATP1000 02-11 May 2014

Starting to sound more and more like he'll be skipping Madrid.

If they're still looking at the wrist, and now that they've seen the draw…he'll pull the rip cord (with his left hand) and land more softly in Rome, I'd say.

 

[Moxie]

RE: Matua Madrid Open ATP1000 02-11 May 2014

On a different topic, Steve Tignor talks about the structure of the tournament, as Tiriac's vision for a "5th Slam," (yes, that again.) The women get no byes in Madrid. He suggests the men shouldn't either.

"Tiriac has always said that 32 players are the ideal number for a pro tournament, if it wants to deliver competitive matches from start to finish. In Madrid, though, he must be torn. Tiriac would like his event to be the fifth Grand Slam, and he’s pushed to make it longer.

For the moment, we’ve reached an appealing mid-point at the Caja Magica. The tournament has a 64-player draw, with no byes, on the women’s side, and a 64-player draw, with eight byes, on the men’s. If you’re going to extend your event to nine days—women’s main-draw matches begin on Saturday—you should give the customers something decent to watch all the way through. Madrid does pretty well right now, but it would do better if it dropped the eight byes on the men's side and made everyone play the same number of matches."

Any opinions on that?

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

RE: Matua Madrid Open ATP1000 02-11 May 2014

^I think Master 1000 tournaments are very tough and competitive . You get maybe 1 round where it is a gimme...after that , quality opponents all the way, with no day offs in most cases. In a slam, first 3 rounds are warm ups for the top seeds.
8 byes or not, it still quality stuff in my opinion.

 

[Moxie]

^I think Master 1000 tournaments are very tough and competitive . You get maybe 1 round where it is a gimme...after that , quality opponents all the way, with no day offs in most cases. In a slam, first 3 rounds are warm ups for the top seeds.
8 byes or not, it still quality stuff in my opinion.

I agree, generally. I just thought it was a bit controversial from Tignor, and his point is interesting: if there's not much between MC and Madrid, and Tiriac is trying to make a really competitive tournament, then why not eliminate byes for the men? It's not like it will keep them from playing. It's a MS and required.

Also, I didn't realize that the women get no byes. What's up with that? (Though I do agree they need a more competitive structure.)

 

[Kieran]

Madrid is way down on the starters for the mythical fifth slam...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Madrid is way down on the starters for the mythical fifth slam...

Exactly...especially not with that trophy that looks like a medieval sex toy. :nono

 

[Moxie]

Madrid is way down on the starters for the mythical fifth slam...

Oh, I agree on that. That's just a Tiriac inflated sense of self-worth. And that's why I didn't reignite the conversation on a separate thread. I think we all agree there are 4 Majors, and that's it. But for those who are trying to make their 1000s/co-ed events more significant, it's an interesting question if you would structure some without byes, even on the men's side. I'm not saying I'm for it, just saying I'd like to hear the discussion.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Madrid is way down on the starters for the mythical fifth slam...

Oh, I agree on that. That's just a Tiriac inflated sense of self-worth. And that's why I didn't reignite the conversation on a separate thread. I think we all agree there are 4 Majors, and that's it. But for those who are trying to make their 1000s/co-ed events more significant, it's an interesting question if you would structure some without byes, even on the men's side. I'm not saying I'm for it, just saying I'd like to hear the discussion.

You want discussion, here you go.

I am fully in favor getting rid of the 8 byes in the following ATP 1000 events: Monte Carlo,
Madrid, Canada and Shanghai. Also, get rid of the 16 byes in Bercy as well. It makes sense
to give 8 byes in Rome and Cincinnati. The reason being these two are the second event
in a back to back sequence of Masters. It also makes sense to have 32 byes in IW and M,
as otherwise, they would become equivalent to grand slams. The remaining 5 ATP 1000
events (MC, Madrid, Canada, Shanghai and Bercy), in my opinion should host the same
size draw and the size should be 64. As an aside, having larger draw size generally gives
up and coming players more opportunities to establish themselves and climb the
ladder and having byes simply panders to top players.

As I said before, the 8 bye business started after the infamous 2006 Rome Fedal final.
However, instead of keeping the 8 bye system just for the second in a pair of consecutive
Masters events, they simply blindly applied the system to all events without any rationale.
They did this on top of making the final a three set match (and that part is fine with me though).
Basically, they did a kneejerk reaction after that 20006 Rome Final as both Fed and
Rafa skipped the Hamburg (Masters event at that time), that both were planning on participating.

As for Madrid becoming 5th Slam, Tiriac can dream on. Nothing will ever become 5th slam
due to tradition. If at all something opens up, definitely IW and Shanghai will be the top dog
instead of facilities and financial power.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

The link below is where I read that initially he might have thought about surgery.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2042984-novak-djokovics-ailing-wrist-threatens-his-best-chance-to-win-the-french-open

Here is the transcript of the presser that Novak gave right after the loss to FedEx. He says
clearly that he does not need a surgery right then (and not after 3/4 days of diagnosis,
doctor visits, MRI etc). This means he already knows the level of seriousness of his wrist issue.

GSM, the possibility of the surgery was before the final. He had the injury for 10 days, prior to the final. Hence when he says 'another" MRI , and when he says " I really don't know what's the diagnosis, to be honest. I heard so many things in last 10 days. Trust me, it's complicated.
You can ask the official doctor. "...

So he had entertained , presumably, a lot of different options even before the final.

Yes, My point was that on the day of his loss to Fed, he already had complete knowledge
that whatever problem he may be having is not serious enough to warrant a surgery.
He categorically told that surgery is not needed in the interview given on that day itself,
without leaving it as an open possibility.

Yes, he had entertained that there was a possibility several days before. Once that
turned out to be not the case, he made the decision to play MC. If the diagnosis
was the other way, he would not have entered MC itself in the first place.

Anyway, with all the recent news it looks like the chances he will choose not to play is
high. I am fine with that. As all of us know, Madrid's altitude and surface is not all that
close to that of RG and so it does not even serve the purpose of being a practice tourney
for RG.

However, it would be nice if he could fied test the wrist in at least Rome before RG.
Playing in RG with some lingering doubts about the (untested) wrist would lead to
lack of confidence.

 

[Moxie]

Madrid is way down on the starters for the mythical fifth slam...

Oh, I agree on that. That's just a Tiriac inflated sense of self-worth. And that's why I didn't reignite the conversation on a separate thread. I think we all agree there are 4 Majors, and that's it. But for those who are trying to make their 1000s/co-ed events more significant, it's an interesting question if you would structure some without byes, even on the men's side. I'm not saying I'm for it, just saying I'd like to hear the discussion.

You want discussion, here you go.

I am fully in favor getting rid of the 8 byes in the following ATP 1000 events: Monte Carlo,
Madrid, Canada and Shanghai. Also, get rid of the 16 byes in Bercy as well. It makes sense
to give 8 byes in Rome and Cincinnati. The reason being these two are the second event
in a back to back sequence of Masters. It also makes sense to have 32 byes in IW and M,
as otherwise, they would become equivalent to grand slams. The remaining 5 ATP 1000
events (MC, Madrid, Canada, Shanghai and Bercy), in my opinion should host the same
size draw and the size should be 64. As an aside, having larger draw size generally gives
up and coming players more opportunities to establish themselves and climb the
ladder and having byes simply panders to top players.

As I said before, the 8 bye business started after the infamous 2006 Rome Fedal final.
However, instead of keeping the 8 bye system just for the second in a pair of consecutive
Masters events, they simply blindly applied the system to all events without any rationale.
They did this on top of making the final a three set match (and that part is fine with me though).
Basically, they did a kneejerk reaction after that 20006 Rome Final as both Fed and
Rafa skipped the Hamburg (Masters event at that time), that both were planning on participating.

As for Madrid becoming 5th Slam, Tiriac can dream on. Nothing will ever become 5th slam
due to tradition. If at all something opens up, definitely IW and Shanghai will be the top dog
instead of facilities and financial power.

I think you're getting confused between byes and draws, but I am, too. The question starts to become which MS 1000s (and the WTA equivalent) is vying for the biggest bragging rights. IW and Miami are deep in it, with a co-ed event and huge prestige. The question of how large a field you admit and how many, if any byes, you gift is an intriguing question, as to the structure. I'd really never thought of it that way. It seems that there is a vying for position amongst the top MS events. They are hoping, perhaps, that all 1000 points are not exactly equal? (Which explains, again, why Paris wants to move up in the schedule.)

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I am not getting confused between bye and draw size.

By the way, in WTA there are only 4 mandatory premier events IW, Miami, Madrid and China.
That is the reason that there are no byes for girls in Madrid.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Actually, as far as providing interesting matches from beginning to end is concerned,
I think, the 64 player (or less) draw is good for the ATP 1000 events. The first round
matches in IW and M are very boring as none of the top 32 players play in it. Those
1st round matches actually do a disservice to the IW and M events by not keeping it
interesting from beginning to end.

I personally would prefer to cut both IW and M to 64 player draw (with 8 byes in
M alone as it is the second event) and cut their length to just one week just like
other Masters.

More importantly, this would free up two full weeks which are a difficult resource
to get. Then, I would RG up by a couple of weeks, and add two more weeks fo
Grass warm-up tourneys before Wimby. That would give a 5 week long grass
season before Wimby starts. It is only fair, considering that the clay season prior
to RG is 7 weeks long.

The 5 week long grass season will be designed as follows.

Week 1: two ATP 250s (Newport and Gstaad)
Week 2: one ATP 500 (Stuttgart) and one ATP 250 (Birmingham)
Week 3: An ATP 1000 (Halle)
Week 4: one ATP 500 (Queens) and one ATP 250 (Netherlands)
Week 5: two ATP 250s. (Nottingham + a new site)
Week 6 and 7: Wimby.

That would give us room for 10 grass titles per year.

 

[Moxie]

I am not getting confused between bye and draw size.

By the way, in WTA there are only 4 mandatory premier events IW, Miami, Madrid and China.
That is the reason that there are no byes for girls in Madrid.

Forgive me…I went back and counted the byes at IW…32. That seems outrageous. At least some compromise position has to be found.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

There are three main draw matched scheduled for Sunday. Two of them are battle of
Spaniards.

1. Agut vs. Robredo
2. GGL vs. Andujar
3. Rosol vs. Chardy.

There are also 7 Qualifying Round Final matches slated for sunday.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Interesting combo in doubles. Berdych and Isner have paired up. As far as I know,
this is a new combo (surely blessed with great serves).

 

[Kirijax]

Madrid is way down on the starters for the mythical fifth slam...

Exactly...especially not with that trophy that looks like a medieval sex toy. :nono

I find comfort in the fact that I am not the only one who thought that. lol

 

[Iona16]

It's official. Novak is out of Madrid. Hope he's ok for Rome.

http://m.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2014/05/19/Madrid-Sunday-Djokovic-Withdraws.aspx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Riotbeard]

It's official. Novak is out of Madrid. Hope he's ok for Rome.

http://m.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2014/05/19/Madrid-Sunday-Djokovic-Withdraws.aspx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Smart choice!