Murray calls for Dope Testing Reform

[Front242]

I'm still waiting for you to tell me about this "insane transformation" that Nadal made in a two-month span of time. And now you've changed the time-frame. (Front "corrected you." As if he's the dispassionate authority. LOL.) Interesting, since you've been so committed to a different time frame, and, more recently, the notion that Rafa's motivation to dope would have been his injury, which happened after the time you now claim. So, what is it? What was this big transformation? And what about you and Front trying to tell me that Rafa was a 98-pound weakling in late 2004, and a he-man in 2005? Now the timeline moves back? Clearly, you guys are having a hard time shucking and jiving out your theories. Why? Because they are baseless. They're just the desperation attempts to excuse Roger's poor record against Nadal, and the endless smear campaign against him for the same reasons.

@Front242: I see that you're still trying to make insinuations on other threads: https://www.tennisfrontier.com/tenn...rs-2018-ohio-us-atp-masters-1000.6147/page-19
I really don't think you get to do that until you answer me here. Own the thing, both of you, or stop making cheap insinuations. Please.

How many times do we have to tell you his motivation to dope is to be better than he is, fame, fortune, etc and, yes, doping heals injuries faster too so there's another incentive but it's mostly because he comes from a nation of dirty fucking cheats (not an offense to dope in Spain until 2006 and their prime minister has even confessed that Spain has a doping problem. Let's just dispose of those blood bags shall we?! which incidentally, as we all know, contained blood from tennis players! Disgusting corrupt nation). I posted links to this numerous times before and couldn't be bothered doing so again) and obviously he has plenty of incentive to cheat himself when he can get away with it, which most unbiased people can assert he most definitely has, which is mostly the ATP's fault. The testing in tennis as most people who follow doping know is a complete joke. Only the naive people think it's "good". The whereabouts rule is bollocks. Tell them where you are tomorrow so you can be sure to be clean that time LOL. Good plan ATP.

I don't have any hard time with any of my accusations towards him and there is nothing baseless about them. There is nothing desperate about them and it has nothing to do with his record against Roger as I've pointed out before, imo, and in the opinions of many, he's playing second fiddle to a dirty fucking drug cheat for most of his career and hence the "poor record". They may be "friends" in the public eye but there's a reason why Roger has asked for the samples to be kept for 10 years and retested multiple times and made sure they enforced the biological passport, which incidentally was brought in not long after that hilarious and obvious drug fest AO 2012 final. Ever tried playing for 6+ hours in over 40C/104F?! There would be nothing left of any of us. These guys barely even drink any water save a few little supps and did this for 6 (!) hours. Yes, I'm pointing the finger at not only Nadal there. Oooh, imagine that. So, don't think it's only your favourite player who is being singled out.

For the record, I've always thought Ferrer was the number 1 most obvious disgusting cheat in tennis and he's been linked to Lance Armstrong's doctor so, again, don't feel too hurt that Nadal is only number 2 on the list. And again, if you can't see the difference between how Nadal looks now and in the photo below, it's a lost cause. Must have been difficult doing those spot the difference games as a kid I guess. And don't give me the he's pumped up after a match nonsense 'cos he claims to not even go to the gym or lift weights so how in the hell do you look like that from just hitting a fucking tennis ball?! ROFL! You've conveniently not even bothered to try to defend why he suddenly went from looking like that (photo below one more time) to absolute crap in a short span of time. I know why (it's obvious to anyone who has seen people on cycles and then afterwards) but it's easier to just turn a blind eye I guess.

 

[Front242]

[QUOTE="Moxie, post: 351419, member: 17"]No need to distract from Federer's recovery from injury and long lay-off by mentioning Serena, or calling her TUE's "dodgy" and "retroactive." You have to admit, if Rafa had taken 7 months off and come out of the gate winning the AO, as Roger did, you'd never have stopped implying it was due to doping.

2005 was also one of Nadal's best seasons, which is one of the reasons you and Darth have to insist that he started doping then. But I would contend that an injury to his foot was likely not a good enough reason to start doping, as he was only 18 and had no reason to mess with something that was already working really well, i.e., his game. It's only that it doesn't suit your narrative.

And why do you have to qualify stamina with "artificial"? That's an editorial point. There's no really good reason to think that Nadal's stamina is enhanced. If Nadal were juicing, why would he be the one who works so hard in training, as he famously is? If he had the bump from a needle or doctor, wouldn't he be able to lay off a bit in training? Roger, however, famously barely hits the ball around and is all ready for competition.

I hope you read the post above by @Jelenafan. There's a lot in it for you.[/QUOTE]

I don't think there's much in the post actually, it's more for the likes of you and those in denial. I didn't have time to post till now.

Federer had surgery which requires time off. Nadal had NO surgery in 2012 and the dodgy part was he kept telling the public he was coming back and then practically every week it was delayed until the famous "sore tummy" episode which caused him to skip the AO 2013. THAT was the most dodgy part that made his whole layoff reek. Feel free to think it was 'cos he didn't feel he had enough preparation time but the reality is, he had plenty. Especially when you consider he was meant to be back multiple times before. Massive sudden change of plan there and no stomach bug causes you to not be ready to play weeks later.

Serena's called the "queen of tennis" by many but in reality, she is the queen of dodge in tennis. Dodging drug testers, hiding in a "panic room", refusing to do tests just a month before this recent Wimbledon which the media and WTA just brushed aside and taking retroactive TUEs before multiple big tournaments, many of which she went on to win. So yes, VERY DODGY indeed and only the naive would claim otherwise. Not to mention to weird dizzy incident in the doubles match with Venus that the media made ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF. I'm glad she's kicking up a fuss about being tested now 'cos she's making herself look like an idiot and even more obviously a cheat..by the way as you know, I used to be a fan of her, but not any more. Not since all that happened which is obviously not the sort of stuff you'd expect from a clean athlete.

Juicers still work very hard which shows your lack of knowledge of PEDs. To get the best benefits out of drugs you still need to work, especially with steroids. Even more so than the normal guy or you're wasting your time taking them. You think Lance Armstrong did no cardio?! The difference they get from doping may only be a 5-10% gain in many cases if they don't want it to show in the tests but 5-10% is a MASSIVE gain and is the difference between losing a 5 set match due to fatigue and outlasting your opponent and still looking fresh a daisy after back to back 5 hour matches in sweltering heat. So yes, "artificial stamina" indeed.

 

[Moxie]

You already posted that picture. And there's really nothing in your post that "proves" your point. Exclamation points and simply insisting that you're right and I'm in denial or uninformed doesn't mean that you "know" what you think you know any more than I know who dopes and who doesn't. All I've been doing is countering your suppositions with plausible alternatives. You, however, refuse to see anything other than what you want to. You don't even admit the possibility that anything could cause doubt. That's a mind that was made up a long time ago. You and Darth have been wobbling all around trying to say when Rafa's body changed and reasons why he would dope, and you're not, frankly, doing a very good job of it. It's simply something you like to believe, and yes, it's because Rafa has always been a threat to Roger and to his legacy. You think if you can besmirch him, it helps Roger's cause. Rafa, since he filled out as a teenager, has always been built like a brick shithouse. Post all the pictures that you like. And you can keep saying the same things over and over again, but there is no point to the "tummy ache" business, and to say that Nadal doesn't suffer after long matches is blatantly untrue. Where's the outrage over Djokovic's back-to-back marathons at the AO? And I don't know why it doesn't count that Roger was able to withstand so many 5 setters and beat Rafa in 2017, at 35. And, btw, an injury that requires surgery is no more legitimate than one that requires rest and rehab.

 

[Front242]

You already posted that picture. And there's really nothing in your post that "proves" your point. Exclamation points and simply insisting that you're right and I'm in denial or uninformed doesn't mean that you "know" what you think you know any more than I know who dopes and who doesn't. All I've been doing is countering your suppositions with plausible alternatives. You, however, refuse to see anything other than what you want to. You don't even admit the possibility that anything could cause doubt. That's a mind that was made up a long time ago. You and Darth have been wobbling all around trying to say when Rafa's body changed and reasons why he would dope, and you're not, frankly, doing a very good job of it. It's simply something you like to believe, and yes, it's because Rafa has always been a threat to Roger and to his legacy. You think if you can besmirch him, it helps Roger's cause. Rafa, since he filled out as a teenager, has always been built like a brick shithouse. Post all the pictures that you like. And you can keep saying the same things over and over again, but there is no point to the "tummy ache" business, and to say that Nadal doesn't suffer after long matches is blatantly untrue. Where's the outrage over Djokovic's back-to-back marathons at the AO? And I don't know why it doesn't count that Roger was able to withstand so many 5 setters and beat Rafa in 2017, at 35. And, btw, an injury that requires surgery is no more legitimate than one that requires rest and rehab.

Did you miss the part where I said AO 2012 was the match that spurred Roger to say enough with this BS and get the biological passport introduced? There were 2 of them playing that match and I'm saying both of them were clearly not playing fair there. Roger did not play long 5 setters. We've been over that a million times. He literally tanked the sets he lost to conserve for the deciders. Losing a set 6-1 or 6-2 does NOT fatigue you. Of course an injury that requires surgery is a bigger issue as there are doubts the surgery was a success, plus, you're conveniently forgetting we could once again see NO SIGNS of any difference with Nadal's movement which is far removed from a ton of guys out there who had surgery and could be seen hobbling by anyone. Nadal hasn't been built like a brick shithouse for a long, long time. If you think he's built well now, then fair enough. I don't. Most don't. He should be frankly embarrassed looking like he does now compared to what he did when he was clearly on something hardcore. He looks like crap. Walks around with this big, hard man gatch like he thinks he's huge and I laugh when he takes his top off after matches as there's no muscle left except for his left bicep.

We've done a perfectly fine job of telling why he'd dope, it's the same for every bloody player on tour. Be better than your normal level, make shit loads of money you wouldn't make with your normal level, become famous that you wouldn't with your normal level, beat guys you wouldn't beat on average with your normal level. Duh. Not doing a good job of it, my ass. Once again, the reasons for doping are the same for EVERY DAMN PLAYER on tour.

And, yes, I'll keep posting that picture so other people who may not have seen it before or new members can see just how absolutely clueless it is to think Nadal has never doped when you show them how he once looked compared to how he now looks, which frankly, is crap. I've been going to the gym for 22 years and would look better than that if I didn't go for around 10 full years. He has a flat chest like a 12 year old, no shoulders and no definition other than when he flexes that out of proportion left bicep. He never had a good chest, mind you but his shoulders (front and side delts), traps, biceps and forearms look a million miles now from what they did in that photo I posted. They've disappeared for a reason and you're in denial I'm afraid...

 

[Moxie]

I don't believe we were ever discussing the AO 2012. If you have an article that states that Roger complained specifically after that, I'd be happy to read the link. Otherwise, I don't count your statements as gospel, because you tend to editorialize, hugely. As to the reasons for doping, as I've said, yours are so general as to be meaningless. As you say, they're the same for every player on tour. That includes Roger, who was by Darth's estimation, a "late bloomer." What finally put the bloom on that rose, then? Surely, he was motivated to dope, without the results everyone was looking for from him. The reason that you believe they apply to Nadal is that you simply don't think he's good enough without it, and you think Roger's talented enough not to need it. THAT is laughably naive, given what you believe in doping in tennis. And even though I've given you every reason why Nadal was already obviously talented AND more successful at a younger age than Roger. That translates directly to less-motivated than Roger to dope, when your argument is that they're all motivated. See how that works? So, then, what about Roger, finally breaking his Major cherry at nearly 22, and then going on a tear?

I know you're a gym-rat, and spend a lot of time staring at and judging other mens' physiques, but I'm not sure you can via photos, but also I'm not sure what your thesis is, then? You say Rafa got small in 2009. Then you complain about 2012 and 2013? But he was smaller then, so how does that all work into your ideas of when he doped and when he didn't? To me, it's much the same: a very strongly built body, consistent with the men in his family, amongst whom are professional athletes. He dropped some weight to take pressure off of the knees, but is still very solidly built.

Look, I have no illusions of changing your mind or Darth's about Rafa and doping. You guys decided what you believe a long time ago and are completely intractable about it. Even though Rafa has been our last great teenager and has had a very consistent career. He began beating his elders and betters before he even turned pro. He had less motivation than many to mess with a winning formula at 18, which is when you and Darth have insisted that he started doping. Oh, no, wait, you just changed it to 17.

My reason for arguing it out with you is to show other posters that you guys make spurious claims with little to back them up. There are a few people who have read it and understand that you come with an agenda on the topic. Every time you make a snide remark about Nadal on a thread, I will refer people to this one. You don't just get to say whatever you want and not back it up. And your back-up has been pretty crap. You're so used to talking to those who believe what you do that you've lost the ability to form an argument. All you do is hit bullet points and use extravagant punctuation.