Monte Carlo Rolex Masters 2019, Monaco, ATP Masters 1000

[herios]

Masters title winners 2017-19: Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, Dimitrov, Zverev, Sock, del Potro, Isner, Thiem, Khachanov, Lajovic/Fognini.

That's 11 different players in 21 tournaments.

Compare that to 2011-16: Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, Murray, Tsonga, Cilic, Wawrinka, Ferrer...8 players in 54 tournaments.

Slam title winners 2017-19: Nadal, Djokovic, Federer

That's 3 players in 9 tournaments (and split evenly, three each).

From that we can say two things:
1) There is a sea change occuring, but...
2) It has not translated (yet) to Slams.

Hopefully this year.

And to make a comment about the sea change, 3 different generations are participating:
Veterans: Del Potro, Isner
Lost gen: Dimitrov, Sock, Thiem
Next gen: Zverev, Khachanov.

Tomorrow another goes to either a veteran or a lost gen. representative.

I made this point because I always thought once the Big 4 will lose their grip it will be a leveled field for a while.

 

[El Dude]

And to make a comment about the sea change, 3 different generations are participating:
Veterans: Del Potro, Isner
Lost gen: Dimitrov, Sock, Thiem
Next gen: Zverev, Khachanov.

Tomorrow another goes to either a veteran or a lost gen. representative.

I made this point because I always thought once the Big 4 will lose their grip it will be a leveled field for a while.

Yes, I've felt the same - the "Wild West" scenario, like the late 90s-early 00s. At first Sampras and Agassi held onto their reigns despite decline, due to a weaker younger generation, then Roger's better peers took over for a couple years before Roger emerged as the best of the bunch in 2004. But from 1998-2003 (or so), the field was pretty spread out, with the exception of much older players, who were largely absent - at least until Agassi hung in there into his mid-30s.

Presumably Rafa, Novak, and Roger will maintain their hold on the top for another year or two, but the gap between them and everyone else is clearly narrowing and will continue to narrow. Then we'll see the NextGen, and post-NextGen players squabble for pecking order as LostGen and older fade away.

 

[herios]

I just came across an important detail to the plot.
Lajovic is coached since 2017 by a guy called Jose Perlas.
Check who he has coached before:
Moya, Costa, Coria, Almagro, Ferrero,
Tipsarevic and Fognini.
Dutzee (Lajovic' Nick name) is in good hands.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Wow! I missed the whole match. Didn't expect this to happen, even though Fog had beat Ralph at USO recently with a variety of winners. Need to catch the highlights.

Given that Ralph, Nole, Sasha and Thiem all were in the tourney and failed, there must be some small chance for Fed at RG. If that happens, that would be a real coup! I know it is unlikely, but I am allowed to dream.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Just watched the 7 minute long highlights on tennis.com. If anyone has better or longer highlights, please post them here.

Based on that, it appear that one of the problems is that Rafa is hitting quite a few short balls which were getting punished one way or other.

Could not believe that Fog raced up to 5-0 in second set.

 

[DarthFed]

Wow! I missed the whole match. Didn't expect this to happen, even though Fog had beat Ralph at USO recently with a variety of winners. Need to catch the highlights.

Given that Ralph, Nole, Sasha and Thiem all were in the tourney and failed, there must be some small chance for Fed at RG. If that happens, that would be a real coup! I know it is unlikely, but I am allowed to dream.

I love the optimism my man! But realistically there are too many guys in a best of 5 on clay over 2 weeks that can give him problems. That and I expect Nadal and Djokovic will tidy up their games for the big one. I'm just happy if Roger enters Wimbledon healthy and in decent form.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Good field in Barcy too.

Here are the top 8 seeds.

1 NADAL, Rafael ESP 2
2 NISHIKORI, Kei JPN 7
3 THIEM, Dominic AUT 8
4 TSITSIPAS, Stefanos GRE 10
5 KHACHANOV, Karen RUS 13
6 MEDVEDEV, Daniil RUS 15
7 FOGNINI, Fabio ITA 17
8 CARRENO BUSTA, Pablo ESP 20

No guarantee that Ralph can win it either.

 

[DarthFed]

Pretty awesome chance here for Fog. Winning an MS would be the peak, even at RG he isn't a real threat to win a major.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I love the optimism my man! But realistically there are too many guys in a best of 5 on clay over 2 weeks that can give him problems. That and I expect Nadal and Djokovic will tidy up their games for the big one. I'm just happy if Roger enters Wimbledon healthy and in decent form.

I hear you. But, If he wins RG again, I could not care less if he loses Wimby in the first round.

p.s. As you can see, it is a big if.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Pretty awesome chance here for Fog. Winning an MS would be the peak, even at RG he isn't a real threat to win a major.

I completely agree. Notwithstanding what happened here, Fog is not a contender at RG. Seven five set matches is too long for him to keep his head straight. However, while he may not be a contender at RG, he sure can cause one or two upsets at RG (inlcuding possibly a repeat of today's upset).

 

[Fiero425]

I hear you. But, If he wins RG again, I could not care less if he loses Wimby in the first round.

p.s. As you can see, it is a big if.

Both Nole & Roger need another French to make sure it doesn't look like a fluke; esp. Roger having help by Soderling with Rafa! :whistle:

 

[herios]

Could not believe that Fog raced up to 5-0 in second set.

He was up 5:0 and 40-0 in the sixth game with 3MP on his serve!

 

[mrzz]

Just watched the 7 minute long highlights on tennis.com. If anyone has better or longer highlights, please post them here.

Based on that, it appear that one of the problems is that Rafa is hitting quite a few short balls which were getting punished one way or other.

Could not believe that Fog raced up to 5-0 in second set.

It was a combination of a lot of things. Nadal balls were short, but I have seen him survive matches playing even shorter. He was also predictable, allowing Fognini to sometimes barely need to adjust his feet to hit the next ball. So he could dictate with his backhand with ease (because that pattern mostly occurred when the exchange was Nadal forehand to Fognini's backhand. Nadal was, quite surprisingly in fact, hitting with more variety on the backhand, but to counter that Fognini's running forehand was clicking. The really strange thing is that Nadal was passive on the tactical front. He usually finds a solution. Yesterday, against Pella, he did. Today it seemed he only watched.

He not only raced to a 5-0 lead on the second, but he was serving for the match, and got up 40-0. By that time Nadal was -- to my knowledge for the first time in his life -- not even trying. But Fognini got sloppy/tight/whatever, and gifted that game from there. I guess that the world and his dog saw a giant comeback in the making, but Nadal was simply too bad to be able to do that today.

 

[El Dude]

Both Nole & Roger need another French to make sure it doesn't look like a fluke; esp. Roger having help by Soderling with Rafa! :whistle:

Umm, no they don't. Roger has been in more clay Slam finals (five) than all but 22 players have been in ALL Slam finals on any surface. Think about that for a moment. Roger lost four Slam finals to the "surface GOAT"...no shame in that.

If you tally up all factors, how many players in the Open Era were greater clay courters than Roger? Rafa, Borg, Lendl, Novak, and then it gets questionable. Vilas? Wilander? Hard to say. I suppose we could talk about Bruguera, Muster, Kuerten, etc. Meaning, only four players were clearly better on clay than Roger, and I'm sure some will complain about my inclusion of Novak. But at the very worst he's one of the top 10 clay courters of the Open Era.

That said, winning another RG would do more for either resume than them winning any other Slam.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Umm, no they don't. Roger has been in more clay Slam finals (five) than all but 22 players have been in ALL Slam finals on any surface. Think about that for a moment. Roger lost four Slam finals to the "surface GOAT"...no shame in that.

If you tally up all factors, how many players in the Open Era were greater clay courters than Roger? Rafa, Borg, Lendl, Novak, and then it gets questionable. Vilas? Wilander? Hard to say. I suppose we could talk about Bruguera, Muster, Kuerten, etc. Meaning, only four players were clearly better on clay than Roger, and I'm sure some will complain about my inclusion of Novak. But at the very worst he's one of the top 10 clay courters of the Open Era.

That said, winning another RG would do more for either resume than them winning any other Slam.

The problem is Fiero's use of the word "fluke". Neither Roger nor Novak won RG by fluke.

 

[Fiero425]

The problem is Fiero's use of the word "fluke". Neither Roger nor Novak won RG by fluke.

I didn't say I thought it was a fluke; history'll show them dominating on all the other surfaces & venues, but it stands out just one FO! :whistle:

 

[Ricardo]

Umm, no they don't. Roger has been in more clay Slam finals (five) than all but 22 players have been in ALL Slam finals on any surface. Think about that for a moment. Roger lost four Slam finals to the "surface GOAT"...no shame in that.

If you tally up all factors, how many players in the Open Era were greater clay courters than Roger? Rafa, Borg, Lendl, Novak, and then it gets questionable. Vilas? Wilander? Hard to say. I suppose we could talk about Bruguera, Muster, Kuerten, etc. Meaning, only four players were clearly better on clay than Roger, and I'm sure some will complain about my inclusion of Novak. But at the very worst he's one of the top 10 clay courters of the Open Era.

That said, winning another RG would do more for either resume than them winning any other Slam.

No complaint, but how do you figure Fed isn’t better than Novak overall on clay?

 

[Ricardo]

Also putting Novak in amongst Nadal, Borg and Lendl shows you are clueless again. All three were clear standouts for years in their era.

 

[Ricardo]

I didn't say I thought it was a fluke; history'll show them dominating on all the other surfaces & venues, but it stands out just one FO! :whistle:

Just be quiet, if winning slams is as easy as a ‘fluke’, why arent you the one to fluke it?

 

[Ricardo]

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