Monte Carlo Masters 2018

[mrzz]

Another great performance from Nadal. He haven't lost a set in two straight MC tournaments, and in this process the "worst" set was the 6x4 against Dimitrov in the semis. He lost fewer games in all the others.

Having said that, and I am sure everyone knows that I do not fail to recognize Nadal's virtues, I must admit he did not look that unbeatable in the semi or in the final.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Sorry Rafa, I overslept and did not see the match. Congratulations to Rafa. It never gets old for him, winning MC again. But, strangely I had a dream in which the match into three sets and Kei won the last set 6-0. Should I consult a doctor? :scratch:

 

[Moxie]

No one is taking him anytime soon. Hopefully there are legit clay courters in the way by 2020 but that'd be the earliest. I don't envision any resistance this year or next. As I said I hope Roger is watching, his career ain't safe yet. He has to keep taking advantage as well, get to 23 or so and then I may be satisfied.

I don't think what you need are "legit clay courters." There still are some, and there will be more. The problem is that Rafa is not merely a clay-courter. He is a GOAT, a super-elite, and the GOAT on clay. The question of who can take him down, particularly at RG, gets pretty reduced. First option is himself. Additional point is no righty with a 1-hand backhand will get it done. Forget Thiem or Wawrinka. So second option is a strong 2HBH, of the best is Djokovic. It is very likely that the only option at RG, all things being equal, is Djokovic. Kei has some game to trouble him, but probably only in best of 3. Then you go to tall guys with big serves. Best option there, imo, is del Potro. After that, a tall guy in the model of Soderling on his best day. But remember that there was extra mustard on that. ATM, Rafa is not looking vulnerable to the field.

 

[Moxie]

Another great performance from Nadal. He haven't lost a set in two straight MC tournaments, and in this process the "worst" set was the 6x4 against Dimitrov in the semis. He lost fewer games in all the others.

Having said that, and I am sure everyone knows that I do not fail to recognize Nadal's virtues, I must admit he did not look that unbeatable in the semi or in the final.

He did look a lot looser in the last two matches. Missing where he wasn't v. Thiem. I'd give both opponents some credit for that (Kei more than Grigor,) but it was also that Rafa's timing was less great. I think he may have decided to put a point on the notion that Thiem was the 2nd best player on clay, for now. He did say, himself, that he'd be hard-pressed to play better than he did on friday. Maybe he peaked a little too soon. Also maybe a little pressure to win the 11th, and keep the #1.

 

[britbox]

The Spaniard bettered his own records in the following categories:

• Most consecutive sets won on clay (36)
• Most titles on clay in the Open Era (54)
• Most Masters Final Appearances (47) – tied with Roger Federer
• Most Masters Final Titles (31) – overtaking Novak Djokovic

 

[britbox]

Match Highlights:

 

[britbox]

He reflected on his record-breaking day during an interview with Sky Sports:

Nadal: "It's so special no? and yeah it doesn't matter if it's the 11th. Every year is different feelings, and yeah especially coming back from injury it is so special for me. The history of this tournament with me is something difficult to describe now since the first time that I came here in 2003 it was so special."

"So very happy with everything and the great news that I have had the chance to finish a week and playing so well during the whole week."

It was a very special day for you today. The first three games were pretty tight and you were down a break in that first. How did you completely take control of the match?

Nadal: "From there yeah I had an opportunity to be 2-0 in the first - but I miss a forehand on the line and yeah I think I have it but you know that game - always I make few mistakes tactically now and then he had the break."

"But mainly I think I changed it a little bit. Now I try to start to move him more than and what I was doing was opening the court and then I see more space. I open up the court with the backhand and then the match completely changes now it opened full possibilities for me and then yeah..."

"It was important to close that first set I had the tough game in at 5-3 and then in the second I started with advantage so that was big for confidence."

You are now on your 54th clay court title. How does this set things up for you for the rest of the clay court season and how excited are you for things up ahead?

Nadal: "Well today is the moment to enjoy Monte Carlo, no? and then tomorrow we're going to start thinking about Barcelona. I have a very difficult draw so I'll just enjoy this day and of course it is a great feeling to start the clay court season in this way - winning five straight matches here and two last week in the Davis Cup so yeah, great feelings but it's day by day and today the only thing that matters is to have this trophy with me again"

 

[DarthFed]

I don't think what you need are "legit clay courters." There still are some, and there will be more. The problem is that Rafa is not merely a clay-courter. He is a GOAT, a super-elite, and the GOAT on clay. The question of who can take him down, particularly at RG, gets pretty reduced. First option is himself. Additional point is no righty with a 1-hand backhand will get it done. Forget Thiem or Wawrinka. So second option is a strong 2HBH, of the best is Djokovic. It is very likely that the only option at RG, all things being equal, is Djokovic. Kei has some game to trouble him, but probably only in best of 3. Then you go to tall guys with big serves. Best option there, imo, is del Potro. After that, a tall guy in the model of Soderling on his best day. But remember that there was extra mustard on that. ATM, Rafa is not looking vulnerable to the field.

By legit I mean very good, basically someone clearly better than Thiem on clay. The problem right now is that you could transfer Thiem at this level to even 2015 and you'd be talking the #6 or #7 clay player. Whereas now he seems like the #2 clay player by default. So there is a huge drop off in talent and of course it's not only on clay. And Rafa is not a GOAT, but he is the clay GOAT and clearly better on clay than anyone else has been on their best surface.

 

[Carol]

Superb numbers of Nadal

 

[mrzz]

Additional point is no righty with a 1-hand backhand will get it done.

This is a myth. Thiem, with that same one-handed back-hand, gave Nadal loads of problems last year. This has no connection with 3 or 5 setters. The problem is not the one hander, is the overall package. Nadal used to explore a "flaw" in Federer's game, but it does not mean all single handed bh's can't deal with a high ball. Kuerten would eat those for lunch, for example.

 

[Moxie]

This is a myth. Thiem, with that same one-handed back-hand, gave Nadal loads of problems last year. This has no connection with 3 or 5 setters. The problem is not the one hander, is the overall package. Nadal used to explore a "flaw" in Federer's game, but it does not mean all single handed bh's can't deal with a high ball. Kuerten would eat those for lunch, for example.

No, this isn't a myth. Thiem beat Nadal in one match last year, which was, conveniently, a good one for him to lose. Next match, he blew Thiem out of the water, as he did on Friday. Wawrinka is supposed to be one who has enough upper-body strength and power to hit through Nadal with his one-hander. He won 6 games in last year's final at RG. Dimitrov only lasted part of one set yesterday, and he's only ever beat Rafa ever right before Nadal closed down his year due to injury in late 2016. I don't think I need to mention Roger v. Rafa on clay. And Kuerten, who also happened to be a great clay player, is not on the slate to play this year.

 

[Moxie]

By legit I mean very good, basically someone clearly better than Thiem on clay. The problem right now is that you could transfer Thiem at this level to even 2015 and you'd be talking the #6 or #7 clay player. Whereas now he seems like the #2 clay player by default. So there is a huge drop off in talent and of course it's not only on clay. And Rafa is not a GOAT, but he is the clay GOAT and clearly better on clay than anyone else has been on their best surface.

But my point is that any even very good clay player isn't good enough to beat Rafa. Coria wasn't, in his prime, and when Rafa was a baby. And Coria was arguably the last great clay player before Rafa. And better than most on offer now, by a lot. As to the bolded above, Rafa most certainly is a GOAT. I'm not sure how you thought you were going to get away with that. By what measure is he not one of the greatest tennis players of all time?

 

[DarthFed]

But my point is that any even very good clay player isn't good enough to beat Rafa. Coria wasn't, in his prime, and when Rafa was a baby. And Coria was arguably the last great clay player before Rafa. And better than most on offer now, by a lot. As to the bolded above, Rafa most certainly is a GOAT. I'm not sure how you thought you were going to get away with that. By what measure is he not one of the greatest tennis players of all time?

Of course he's one of the greatest, you just have the tendency to say he and Fed are Co-Goats and I will always call you out on that.

I'm not talking about someone becoming the next Nadal on clay or even the next Fed or Djoker on clay but if a few players step up then that just makes it tougher for an aging Rafa. Right now there is no one with even a slight chance. And I don't want to keep dogging on Thiem but the hope is some other young gun becomes a much more serious player on the dirt than Thiem. I think Chung has a lot of potential everywhere with that movement and backhand. Maybe him?

 

[Moxie]

Roger and Rafa are co-GOATs of this era, with Novak, and, given that they're still active players, I don't know how you can't see that it's all still in play. In fact, you do, given how you try to remind Roger not to get complacent when you see Rafa play this well. So, if your contention is that Roger is the GOAT for now, I'm fine with that.

As amazing as Rafa and Roger are, they can't keep playing this well forever, so that part will take care of itself. But as to stopping Rafa on clay, I don't know that you need a great clay player, because they won't be as good as Rafa. You need the combination of things that can counteract his weapons on clay. And a great day. Who has stopped Roger on grass? Rafa and Novak, and someone having a great day when Roger isn't. Same deal.

 

[DarthFed]

I'm just talking about %'s really. It'd take an incredibly bad day for Rafa to lose to anyone right now at RG assuming Nole doesn't come back into form this year. But if you had a few more legit clay court threats in there it'd just take less of a bad day out of Nadal. Maybe instead of being a 95% favorite at this RG he'd be 75%. That's what I'm getting at.

And yes Roger is GOAT right now and quite clearly. But slams can be won in bunches especially with this field.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I'm just talking about %'s really. It'd take an incredibly bad day for Rafa to lose to anyone right now at RG assuming Nole doesn't come back into form this year. But if you had a few more legit clay court threats in there it'd just take less of a bad day out of Nadal. Maybe instead of being a 95% favorite at this RG he'd be 75%. That's what I'm getting at.

And yes Roger is GOAT right now and quite clearly. But slams can be won in bunches especially with this field.

I didnt get to see the match but was glad Rafa really tuned his game to subdue Kei today. Vamos numero Deciuno

 

[Moxie]

I'm just talking about %'s really. It'd take an incredibly bad day for Rafa to lose to anyone right now at RG assuming Nole doesn't come back into form this year. But if you had a few more legit clay court threats in there it'd just take less of a bad day out of Nadal. Maybe instead of being a 95% favorite at this RG he'd be 75%. That's what I'm getting at.

And yes Roger is GOAT right now and quite clearly. But slams can be won in bunches especially with this field.

I thought we were talking about the future, mainly. For this year, there isn't much competition, primarily because Novak is still coming back and Roger and Andy aren't playing the clay season. Del Potro may yet be in there to challenge, and a fit and rested Nishikori. Or Thiem on a good day. Maybe some youngsters to be named. But I don't know what you want out of the rest of the field. Even if there were better clay courters, they'd just make him play a bit longer. Perhaps. He's a head-and-shoulders superior player in any era. For the most part, as with Roger, any number of "really good" players aren't going to be enough, most days.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

But my point is that any even very good clay player isn't good enough to beat Rafa. Coria wasn't, in his prime, and when Rafa was a baby. And Coria was arguably the last great clay player before Rafa. And better than most on offer now, by a lot. As to the bolded above, Rafa most certainly is a GOAT. I'm not sure how you thought you were going to get away with that. By what measure is he not one of the greatest tennis players of all time?

By definition, there can only be one GOAT and that ain't Rafa.

 

[Andy22]

By legit I mean very good, basically someone clearly better than Thiem on clay. The problem right now is that you could transfer Thiem at this level to even 2015 and you'd be talking the #6 or #7 clay player. Whereas now he seems like the #2 clay player by default. So there is a huge drop off in talent and of course it's not only on clay. And Rafa is not a GOAT, but he is the clay GOAT and clearly better on clay than anyone else has been on their best surface.

Rafael nadal + federer are co-goats seeing as, Nadal is going to over take fed in the next 3 years so we might as well start calling him co-goat now.

 

[Andy22]

I call myself a tennis fan as much as you are. Being a fanboy of Nadal is cool but I didn't insult your man I praised him. But to even suggest that Nadal is in any way as complete and imperious a player as Fed is just not true. All one has to do is look and open your eyes and and just about all tennis experts and past and current champions will acknowledge that. Warching Fed play on grass at Wimbledon for this tennis fan is as good as it gets.

Past and current champions would also, acknowledge that watching Nadal on clay is as good as it gets. And I was not talking about tennis experts, I was talking about tennis fans who think federer on grass is boring which it is sometimes, but it would not stop me watching grass events like you on clay.