Mercedes Cup - Stuttgart ATP 250 - June 8-14

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJkGXdANeC0[/video]

 

[Carol]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJkGXdANeC0[/video]

Thanks pavlik, I was waiting for you vid, but....

 

[Front242]

^ You can't outrun a 99mph backhand, forehand or an ace.

There's some serious holes your above posts. First of all, there's no doubt that Rosol is troubling for Nadal on grass given the way he plays.

That said, using the "he almost went up two sets to love" logic makes no sense. Even slight discomfort in the knee can be the difference between losing a match in 5 and winning a set in 4. Regardless, it's irrelevant as they were two separate matches two full years apart. One doesn't prove anything regarding the other (otherwise I could claim that Nadal winning in 4 proves he was injured in 2012).

But, let's stick with that logic. I guess Nadal beating Soderling in straight sets at the 2010 FO final proves there was something wrong with him when he lost the previous year to the same player in 4? Careful, this cuts both ways.

With regards to the above quoted post, no, all the knees in the world wouldn't help you get back some of Rosol's winners, but that is a very shortsighted way of putting it, because it's hardly the only thing a knee injury affects. It also affects his ability to get down low and pick up low bouncing balls, especially on grass, it also means he will get to some balls a split second late and thus muster up a weak or short reply that Rosol was eating up. It affects the two handed backhand, especially given the way Nadal hits it, as well as the sliced backhand.

I think a 7 months absence shows there clearly was something wrong with Nadal, as does the poor movement. Perhaps he would have lost anyway, but seeing as the match ended 6-4 in the fifth, you can make an argument that a bit of health could produce the same outcome in reverse (or even a more decisive outcome), since margins are so small.

Nadal beat Soderling in 2010 'cos he better played lol. That's all I saw there. He wasn't hitting short balls like he was the year before and of course Soderling didn't play as well, in part due to not being given so many short balls to swat away. The weather also suited Nadal's game more in 2010. It's no secret that he plays better on clay with sunny weather as it makes his topsin more deadly and I remember many predictions at the time saying Soderling had a very good chance if it was cool and damp but it turned out a sunny final in 2010. It's as simple as that. No knees need to come into the equation. Do we really analyze every Nadal loss to say he lost that one 'cos he was injured and won the year after 'cos he wasn't? :nono

Rosol at Wimbledon didn't give him time to hit too many two handed backhands or shots in general as he was blasting so many winners and aces. Actually if I recall, Rafa ended their 2012 Wimbledon match with more aces. Fun stat.

As you said though, I was hardly trying to point out Rosol was some world beater, merely that he gave him just as much of a hard time 2 years later so it was hardly all knee related the first time Nadal lost. As you said, the margins are so small, Rosol could easily have been up 2 sets to love and won that 2014 match and that was all I was saying. You understood that but sad that other Nadal fans got so bitter and annoyed. Rosol in winner blasting, ace serving mode is difficult for many on grass I'd imagine but he just so happens to have played Nadal twice at Wimbledon and proved a tough opponent in each. These types of players with a big power game have been hard for him at Wimbledon for years and if it makes said Nadal fans less bitter and happier, Federer also has a hard time against these kinds of guys since around 2009. Not sure why so many are having a muppet attack reading that.

 

[memad]

good win for rafa...congratulations...

nice to see baghdatis after long time

 

[Moxie]

^No one had a muppet attack. Beyond responding to you, mostly everyone here is discussing the tournament at hand, where Rosol went out in the first round. I, and even Carol, said that Rosol played great in that Wimbledon match. And nobody denied that he might not have done better in that other match you mention. We just ignored it, mostly. You were doing fine touting it (five times by my count now, just on this thread.)

And in fairness to you, I'm glad Rafa didn't have to play him today. I have no idea how that would have gone, but Nadal wasn't so sharp, and the rhythm match with Baggy was better for his preparation. You're given Broken credit for understanding you, but he's the one debating you on all this Rosol and Soderling history. You should really look back on the thread before you complain about how people reacted.

 

[brokenshoelace]

^ You can't outrun a 99mph backhand, forehand or an ace.

There's some serious holes your above posts. First of all, there's no doubt that Rosol is troubling for Nadal on grass given the way he plays.

That said, using the "he almost went up two sets to love" logic makes no sense. Even slight discomfort in the knee can be the difference between losing a match in 5 and winning a set in 4. Regardless, it's irrelevant as they were two separate matches two full years apart. One doesn't prove anything regarding the other (otherwise I could claim that Nadal winning in 4 proves he was injured in 2012).

But, let's stick with that logic. I guess Nadal beating Soderling in straight sets at the 2010 FO final proves there was something wrong with him when he lost the previous year to the same player in 4? Careful, this cuts both ways.

With regards to the above quoted post, no, all the knees in the world wouldn't help you get back some of Rosol's winners, but that is a very shortsighted way of putting it, because it's hardly the only thing a knee injury affects. It also affects his ability to get down low and pick up low bouncing balls, especially on grass, it also means he will get to some balls a split second late and thus muster up a weak or short reply that Rosol was eating up. It affects the two handed backhand, especially given the way Nadal hits it, as well as the sliced backhand.

I think a 7 months absence shows there clearly was something wrong with Nadal, as does the poor movement. Perhaps he would have lost anyway, but seeing as the match ended 6-4 in the fifth, you can make an argument that a bit of health could produce the same outcome in reverse (or even a more decisive outcome), since margins are so small.

Nadal beat Soderling in 2010 'cos he better played lol. That's all I saw there.

Same applies to the Rosol win. Nadal played better, Rosol couldn't maintain that level, Nadal won. It doesn't prove or disprove anything with regards to their 2012 encounter.

 

[brokenshoelace]

. Actually if I recall, Rafa ended their 2012 Wimbledon match with more aces. Fun stat.

22 aces for Rosol, 19 for Nadal.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Nadal needs to beat Tomic to get at least one more match under his belt on grass before whatever tournament it is he's playing next.

He's standing too far back on the return of serve (which is expected as he makes the transition from clay to grass) but curiously, he's at times willingly taking a few steps back during the rally even when it's neutral (ie he's not on the back-foot). That's a sign that of lack of confidence in his ability to take the ball earlier than he normally would, which is necessary on grass. I'm impressed with his cross court backhand but his forehand looks utterly pedestrian as it did all year. Hopefully he continues to make improvements though as this was a step in the right direction, all things considered.

 

[Fiero425]

. Actually if I recall, Rafa ended their 2012 Wimbledon match with more aces. Fun stat.

22 aces for Rosol, 19 for Nadal.

In my day, over 5 sets; average results! OTTH, I seem to remember a 2nd round match back in '76; John Feaver vs John Newcombe! Newc won even though Feaver hit 52 aces over their 5 set match! :eyepop :cover :nono

 

[TsarMatt]

Would anyone be kind enough to share a stream for tonight's Tomic/Nadal match?

 

[Fiero425]

Nadal needs to beat Tomic to get at least one more match under his belt on grass before whatever tournament it is he's playing next.

He's standing too far back on the return of serve (which is expected as he makes the transition from clay to grass) but curiously, he's at times willingly taking a few steps back during the rally even when it's neutral (ie he's not on the back-foot). That's a sign that of lack of confidence in his ability to take the ball earlier than he normally would, which is necessary on grass. I'm impressed with his cross court backhand but his forehand looks utterly pedestrian as it did all year. Hopefully he continues to make improvements though as this was a step in the right direction, all things considered.

I saw that this afternoon; said to myself, "why is he playing by the backstop on grass?" :cover :nono :angel: :dodgy: He'll never get to the final playing like that; it was ugly! :cover

 

[Front242]

. Actually if I recall, Rafa ended their 2012 Wimbledon match with more aces. Fun stat.

22 aces for Rosol, 19 for Nadal.

Close enough without checking anyway.

 

[Moxie]

Would anyone be kind enough to share a stream for tonight's Tomic/Nadal match?

I used this one yesterday:

http://live.realstreamunited.com/players/free-live-video-streaming-nadal-tomic-atp-stuttgart-tennis-atp-81288.html

 

[Front242]

^No one had a muppet attack. Beyond responding to you, mostly everyone here is discussing the tournament at hand, where Rosol went out in the first round. I, and even Carol, said that Rosol played great in that Wimbledon match. And nobody denied that he might not have done better in that other match you mention. We just ignored it, mostly. You were doing fine touting it (five times by my count now, just on this thread.)

And in fairness to you, I'm glad Rafa didn't have to play him today. I have no idea how that would have gone, but Nadal wasn't so sharp, and the rhythm match with Baggy was better for his preparation. You're given Broken credit for understanding you, but he's the one debating you on all this Rosol and Soderling history. You should really look back on the thread before you complain about how people reacted.

You should also read it properly as you were one of the people who objected to the post. Broken was the one Nadal fan who pointed out there was nothing wrong with what I said about Rosol.
Compare that to getting all defensive and touting some nonsense about Rosol needing to work on his legacy as you typed which was an unnecessary comment about Rosol, who I never claimed was some amazing player but simply that he gave him almost equally as much of a hard time 2 years later and that his knee(s) had very little bearing on the result. Instead of realizing the obvious (that he was actually 1 missed volley away from being up 2 sets to love) you wrote the below slagging his legacy. I think you know enough about tennis to realize if he'd actually gone up 2 sets to love there was a strong chance he'd have won the match and he missed out on being up 2-0 in sets by 1 point. Not really that hard to grasp and there wasn't much of a need for the part below.

"You mentioned twice that he was almost up two sets to love. Which isn't actually being up two sets to love, and it's still not a win, even if he had managed it. Poor Rosol really needs to work on his legacy."

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3972&pid=188808#pid188808

And you should also go back and read Carol's replies properly too as we had the usual Nadal fan excuses about him only losing because of injury and that he would've won otherwise. It never gets old. As for Broken debating Soderling and Rosol, there's really not much to it imo. Both sides played differently each time. The winner played better when they won and the loser played not as well. It's not rocket science how the winner won. Not much to debate really.

http://www.tennisfrontier.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3972&pid=188817#pid188817

 

[TsarMatt]

Would anyone be kind enough to share a stream for tonight's Tomic/Nadal match?

I used this one yesterday:

http://live.realstreamunited.com/players/free-live-video-streaming-nadal-tomic-atp-stuttgart-tennis-atp-81288.html

Thank you, I'll check it out tonight when the match starts.

 

[brokenshoelace]

fromsport.com usually have more than one link for each match.

 

[TsarMatt]

Thanks mate. Hopefully the streams are not that laggy either.

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx94owYrzX8[/video]

 

[pavlik89]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb-9AeMwQqQ[/video]

 

[herios]

Monfils def. Kohli in 3 sets, into the SF