Maria & Grigor

[Correspondent Kiu]

RE: How did you catch us?

They have long telephoto lenses.

They can get you from miles away.

 

[El Dude]

RE: Has Grigor showed today that he might be the future of tennis ?

Oh goodness, huntingyou. After your rant against feminism I don't know what to say. What century do you live in that women must fit your idea of what a woman should be like?

Here's one for you: there is not some objective standard for beauty. You may say that Maria Sharapova is "average looking" but you're in a very tiny minority and, of course, that is just your subjective opinion. In fact, I'd be surprised if anyone agreed with you.

I personally think that she's quite beautiful, stunning really. But Ana Ivanovic is even moreso, in my opinion - but that's just to me!

 

[huntingyou]

RE: Has Grigor showed today that he might be the future of tennis ?

Oh goodness, huntingyou. After your rant against feminism I don't know what to say. What century do you live in that women must fit your idea of what a woman should be like?

Here's one for you: there is not some objective standard for beauty. You may say that Maria Sharapova is "average looking" but you're in a very tiny minority and, of course, that is just your subjective opinion. In fact, I'd be surprised if anyone agreed with you.

I personally think that she's quite beautiful, stunning really. But Ana Ivanovic is even moreso, in my opinion - but that's just to me!

I'm in the 21st century.

BTW, I was raised by a wonderful women; married and amazing one as well.

There are universals unique traits to both men and women, there is even an evolutionary gender role that played out for thousands of years. I'm just merely pointing out feminists in Western Culture has spoiled most of that and the results are not pretty.......I mean, you can't argue this unless you think we are doing ok as a society.

Agree on Ana......but she projects sweetness, feminism and playful frame.

This is what I would call beautiful:

 

[MashaFan]

Beauty is in the beholder's eyes
and it is no idea to discuss it. I just wanna say that millions and millions of both men and women actually do think that Masha is beautiful - She has a great face even if it's not in everybody's taste and she has a classy appearance - She also always get great press when she attends official parties and photographers are usually all over her - I'm mentioning all this only to show that plenty of influential people like what they see - hence her multi million deals with the many companies - of which Porsche is the latest - so they can use her face as their company's front

As for Masha and Grigor - Yeah - I kinda thought that it would stir the pot - It looks to me that a lot of the negative comments and sexual insinuations breath frustration - It's like those commentators don't have a meaningful life themselves and can not stand that a person like Masha who's considered beautiful - a great tennis player - wealthy and a successful business woman also has found happiness with a guy on top of everything - It's sure not easy to compete with all that compared to their life

I feel really sorry for such persons and I wish that they can find some satisfying meaning with their life some day soon so that love and light can replace all the envy and bitterness in their hearts

 

[Kieran]

RE: Has Grigor showed today that he might be the future of tennis ?

I'm in the 21st century.

BTW, I was raised by a wonderful women; married and amazing one as well.

There are universals unique traits to both men and women, there is even an evolutionary gender role that played out for thousands of years. I'm just merely pointing out feminists in Western Culture has spoiled most of that and the results are not pretty.......I mean, you can't argue this unless you think we are doing ok as a society.

Agree on Ana......but she projects sweetness, feminism and playful frame.

This is what I would call beautiful:

In a hilarious thread, this is the most hilarious comment of all. Well done, buddy, invoke your momma and your wife, then show us what you really like.

Poor old rich young Masha and Grig...

 

[huntingyou]

RE: Has Grigor showed today that he might be the future of tennis ?

In a hilarious thread, this is the most hilarious comment of all. Well done, buddy, invoke your momma and your wife, then show us what you really like.

Poor old rich young Masha and Grig...

They called Maria beautiful; just stating what the word beautiful should go with.

Is not that I "like" her.......that's besides the point.

 

[Kieran]

RE: Has Grigor showed today that he might be the future of tennis ?

Is not that I "like" her.......that's besides the point.

Do you know, I didn't even look at her face. Takes too long to get there! :blush:

 

[huntingyou]

RE: Has Grigor showed today that he might be the future of tennis ?

Is not that I "like" her.......that's besides the point.

Do you know, I didn't even look at her face. Takes too long to get there! :blush:

My bad...it was too explicit

let's try again with no distractions:

---

didn't pay attention to the size damn it. sorry

 

[jhar26]

It's almost a pointless argument, ain't it? I know it's a cliché, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Among tennis players I find both Sharapova and Wozniacki more beautiful than Ivanovic, although she's good looking as well. But I find Sorana Cirstea as attractive as any of them. But if tomorrow someone here says that for him Francesca Schiavone is the hottest chick since Marilyn Monroe who am I to say that he's wrong? You feel attracted to who you feel attracted.

 

[Moxie]

RE: Has Grigor showed today that he might be the future of tennis ?

"Im Dude and I worship the ground Maria walks on"

Typical male response for an average looking, no personality and manish women.

Have at it!

Two things. One, you're missing the point of the "foot in mouth" picture. What you said was chauvinistic, demeaning, and misses the fact that Maria Sharapova is a top-notch tennis player and a human being outside of her sexuality.

Two, if you think she's "average looking" then I don't know what your standards are. She's beautiful and quite elegant.

All that said, while I shouldn't have to say this because it is a deflection on your part, I don' "worship the ground she walks on." I follow women's tennis but not as much as men's, and I don't have any particular favorites. What I take issue with is your demeaning remarks and what seems two be a quite obvious chauvinistic attitude. I have no idea how far it extends, but it certainly stands out like a sore thumb in this context.

Calling a spade a SPADE is not chauvinistic.....are you a feminist? Because that's their last line of defense, lose the argument......insult the man.

I'm from Puerto Rico (lots of talent), Maria Sharapova is AVERAGE looking and I'm being nice since the photo-shoots are amazing at making ugly women and men look magnificent.

Listen, if we talk about the tennis player then I have no issues...she has worked her ass off and mad respect for accomplishing so much. Now, if we talk about Maria as a mate prospect; sorry but Grigor can do much better and he knows that.

The feminists want to cover the sky with their bare hands, enjoy all the benefits from reckless behavior while taking zero responsibility for it. Whole generations of western women tainted with their masculine attitudes and crooked world views. It has even tainted South America and parts of Eastern Europe. At least they have it better than men.......every day more feminine, weak and soul less.....pedestalize women at their own peril; picking them up after the long carousel ride......a ride Maria is very comfortable and quite the expert.

Wow...that was quite the rant against feminism.

You wrote: "The feminists want to cover the sky with their bare hands, enjoy all the benefits from reckless behavior while taking zero responsibility for it. Whole generations of western women tainted with their masculine attitudes and crooked world views."

I'll just let that speak for itself, for now.

 

[huntingyou]

RE: Has Grigor showed today that he might be the future of tennis ?

Wow...that was quite the rant against feminism.

You wrote: "The feminists want to cover the sky with their bare hands, enjoy all the benefits from reckless behavior while taking zero responsibility for it. Whole generations of western women tainted with their masculine attitudes and crooked world views."

I'll just let that speak for itself, for now.

rant? You mean argument?

What say you? The problem with feminism is that it's thinly cover under civil rights causes like equal pay for equal work and overall social rights like voting for example. It's bait and switch movement predicated on hate against man and denouncing their own nature which was cleverly crafted over millions of years (evolution). A political power grab that sacrifices women, children and the family in exchange of what?

Maybe you need a fellow women to tell you what I just said:

http://www.amazon.com/Domestic-Tranquility-Brief-Against-Feminism/dp/0965320863


At the end of the day remember this; "Biology trounces ideology"

and why you are at it; explain why 70% of all divorces are file by women while 20% out of the remaining 30% were initiated by women asking the man to file for divorce.

The greatest victim of feminism are children.........it's a self feeding cycle of broken souls. Can't even nurture anymore.

 

[El Dude]

Huntingyou, not only are you ranting against feminism, as Moxie pointed out, but against women in general - at least "western women tainted with their masculine attitudes and crooked world views." I shudder to wonder what you believe a woman's attitude and world view "should" be, as if you or I are the judge and jury of that.

I'll do you a favor: Why don't we just leave this as it is so you don't continue to put your foot in your mouth? Maybe we should just stick to tennis?

 

[huntingyou]

Huntingyou, not only are you ranting against feminism, as Moxie pointed out, but against women in general - at least "western women tainted with their masculine attitudes and crooked world views." I shudder to wonder what you believe a woman's attitude and world view "should" be, as if you or I are the judge and jury of that.

I'll do you a favor: Why don't we just leave this as it is so you don't continue to put your foot in your mouth? Maybe we should just stick to tennis?

straw man argument

feminism is against women; do not judge me based on your intellectual shortcomings. Pay a little bit of attention to the world around you.

It's obvious I'm telling the truth, otherwise more people would be agreeing with me. The sheep mentality is strong in the USA........totally expected.

 

[El Dude]

Now you're getting nasty. Usually resorting to ad hominen attacks is, well, a sign of intellectual shortcoming.

By the way, is it your opinion that if a woman is deeply unhappy in a marriage that she should stick it out for the sake of family? I'm not sure what the point of your divorce stats is.

But here's the point of feminism that you seem to miss: It has enabled women to realize that they are self-determining, that they don't need to fit the traditional gender stereotype that you seem to feel they should dutifully remain within. Men get to choose who and what they want to be, so why shouldn't women?

 

[Kieran]

RE: Has Grigor showed today that he might be the future of tennis ?

that they don't need to fit the traditional gender stereotype that you seem to feel they should dutifully remain within.

Which gender stereotype?!

Oh yeah, almost forgot...

 

[huntingyou]

Now you're getting nasty. Usually resorting to ad hominen attacks is, well, a sign of intellectual shortcoming.

You made it personal from the start, never really addressed the argument and resorted to generalized trivial judgment.

By the way, is it your opinion that if a woman is deeply unhappy in a marriage that she should stick it out for the sake of family? I'm not sure what the point of your divorce stats is.

What's this? What college did you went to? You debate like a militant feminist, or a Zionist that scream antisemitism every-time facts about Israel are pointed out.

I never said a women should stay in an unhappy marriage and yes you have no clue about statistics. Maybe I should make it easier and not assume people have open mind and are willing to look into a subject that makes them uncomfortable with an open mind.

The incentives in our society are gear to fuel the natural hypergamous nature of women, thus creating the stats I just pointed out to you. A women cheats, filed for divorce, takes her husband half of income, the house, the kids and on top of that get's alimony while the women "marries up" the next guy. This happens time and time again. I see it with my own eyes, people close to me......from both the men and women perspective.

But here's the point of feminism that you seem to miss: It has enabled women to realize that they are self-determining, that they don't need to fit the traditional gender stereotype that you seem to feel they should dutifully remain within. Men get to choose who and what they want to be, so why shouldn't women?

Don't confuse civil right cause with feminism movement; feminism has only enable women to grow up confuse, unhappy and a void of self-realization.

I could take your argument serious if you stop flinging false accusations. I never said a women should stick with a specific role; that's false. We have to be honest and stop selling the blue pill to little girls, stop installing the victim mentality.

Nothing in life is free, you can't have the cake and eat it to so to speak. Western women, specially USA women has slowly but surely lose their ability to nurture, love, care and be naturally beautiful; instead they have become more like men....a role they are not biological equipped to handle. In the process, we have created a bunch of masculine women and feminine men...........the problem is women will always crave strong men, their is no escape to that reality.

The "objectification" or women that feminist decries is a byproduct of their agenda, self-inflicted wound. Hyper promiscuity, binge drinking, partying it up..........geez, girl power right? The wheel keeps turning, devouring clueless and confuse little girls; at the end of the tunnel they come out as angry, mentally unstable and bitter human beings.....thinking about what went wrong.

 

[El Dude]

I apologize, Huntingyou, for "flinging false accusations" or seeming like I was attacking you. That wasn't my intention. I took issue A) with your broad-brush characterization of women, especially Western women, and B) your inflation of your own subjective view of Sharapova's "average looks" to some supposed objective standard.

Let's try this again. You obviously don't know me beyond a few internet exchanges, but I am almost never accused of being closed minded - it is kind of amusing, actually. So I'll try to display more open-mindedness and refrain from attacks.

I actually agree with elements of what you say - namely, that Western women have been sold/bought into a rather nasty mental disease with regards to beauty and femininity (although I find it ironic that you tout "natural beauty" while posting a picture of an air-brushed, heavily made-up model). I also agree that, in many contexts and sub-cultures at least, we have de-feminized women and de-masculinized men. But the thing is, this is in response to thousands of years of oppression, of history dominated by men and their (our) concerns. Sure, women have played a part, have been victims in many cases, but we cannot blame them for their continued oppression.

In that sense I see feminism as a means to an end, a raft that is used to get across a river. But of course it should be left at the banks on the other side - the other side being an embrace of true femininity and masculinity, a deep equality that neither reduces one to the other, and gives all the freedom to embrace who they (we) are, but also decide who they (we) want to be.

The mental disease you point out is the sickness of our modern culture. On that we agree. But we are all prone to it, we all buy into it - it isn't just women, but men as well - and in a way, we've been more responsible in creating it, or at least instigating it.

As far as your characterization of women "marrying up," that applies to rather shallow women who are drawn to external forms of power - money and prestige. More evolved women, I have found, are drawn to men who embody inner strength, who are confident in being who they are, and who are also able to be open-hearted and embrace their feminine sides. To these women the factors you emphasize (money, power, and prestige) are secondary.

 

[huntingyou]

I apologize, Huntingyou, for "flinging false accusations" or seeming like I was attacking you. That wasn't my intention. I took issue A) with your broad-brush characterization of women, especially Western women, and B) your inflation of your own subjective view of Sharapova's "average looks" to some supposed objective standard.

Let's try this again. You obviously don't know me beyond a few internet exchanges, but I am almost never accused of being closed minded - it is kind of amusing, actually. So I'll try to display more open-mindedness and refrain from attacks.

I actually agree with elements of what you say - namely, that Western women have been sold/bought into a rather nasty mental disease with regards to beauty and femininity (although I find it ironic that you tout "natural beauty" while posting a picture of an air-brushed, heavily made-up model). I also agree that, in many contexts and sub-cultures at least, we have de-feminized women and de-masculinized men. But the thing is, this is in response to thousands of years of oppression, of history dominated by men and their (our) concerns. Sure, women have played a part, have been victims in many cases, but we cannot blame them for their continued oppression.

In that sense I see feminism as a means to an end, a raft that is used to get across a river. But of course it should be left at the banks on the other side - the other side being an embrace of true femininity and masculinity, a deep equality that neither reduces one to the other, and gives all the freedom to embrace who they (we) are, but also decide who they (we) want to be.

The mental disease you point out is the sickness of our modern culture. On that we agree. But we are all prone to it, we all buy into it - it isn't just women, but men as well - and in a way, we've been more responsible in creating it, or at least instigating it.

As far as your characterization of women "marrying up," that applies to rather shallow women who are drawn to external forms of power - money and prestige. More evolved women, I have found, are drawn to men who embody inner strength, who are confident in being who they are, and who are also able to be open-hearted and embrace their feminine sides. To these women the factors you emphasize (money, power, and prestige) are secondary.

Ok, this is a 180. I apologize as well because I was merely trying to stay on topic and went outside by making personal attacks as well.

It seems we agree in the main argument I tried to present, and I have to admit feminism is not the only cause for the problems I highlighted in previous posts. Economic exploitation of the average man by the elite creates a multitude of desperate situations where well intention people takes the boat to cross the river but seems to never realize when the journey is over . (your metaphor)

I disagree with your generalized take on human history by characterizing women oppression by men like a constant state of affairs. History is always being re-written as we speak so you have to dig a little bit deeper outside of the mainstream...this will take you closer to what really happened.

Men biologically feels desperate incline to protect and love women (evolution made sure of so) so I find it hard to believe for thousands of years all the way back to caveman country; women were being oppressed. After all, every man has a mom. I find oppression took more of a role when different races and cultures clashed with each other.

Now, when you add organize religions to the mix.....then there is no doubt about it that the heavy burden of abuse and exploitation was carried by women and children (both sexes). It seems organize religions tends to bring the nastiest traits of human nature and in a world of dog eats dog.....women will get shorter end of the stick.

I would love to see all this evolved women you speak of, where money and prestige plays a secondary role...certainly that can't be found in America. I'm generalizing of course; for every rule there is one that breaks it. The nature of hypergamy is very real........as real as biology reality itself. Women are program to select the mate that provides the highest chance of survival to their children. This constant need to look up instead of forward can't be deprogram; unless you can deprogram man to stop their urge of spreading their seed. Social programming can only do so much.

Finally, I really really have to disagree with you on the whole men's feminine side and women attraction to it. Talk about blue pills for little boys.........there is nothing more that a women hates than a weak men; embracing femininity as a men it's the final nail in the coffin for the Omega man.......being Beta wasn't enough.

(my model pic was intended to cause "shock"......she is actually very beautiful without the make-up and glamour shots as well. But since anytime a Sharapova lover talks about her beauty....glamour shots are thrown around; I couldn't resist the temptation. For the record, I find Audrey Hepburn looks and elegance as the ultimate beauty.....IMHO)

 

[DarthFed]

Now you're getting nasty. Usually resorting to ad hominen attacks is, well, a sign of intellectual shortcoming.

You made it personal from the start, never really addressed the argument and resorted to generalized trivial judgment.

By the way, is it your opinion that if a woman is deeply unhappy in a marriage that she should stick it out for the sake of family? I'm not sure what the point of your divorce stats is.

What's this? What college did you went to? You debate like a militant feminist, or a Zionist that scream antisemitism every-time facts about Israel are pointed out.

I never said a women should stay in an unhappy marriage and yes you have no clue about statistics. Maybe I should make it easier and not assume people have open mind and are willing to look into a subject that makes them uncomfortable with an open mind.

The incentives in our society are gear to fuel the natural hypergamous nature of women, thus creating the stats I just pointed out to you. A women cheats, filed for divorce, takes her husband half of income, the house, the kids and on top of that get's alimony while the women "marries up" the next guy. This happens time and time again. I see it with my own eyes, people close to me......from both the men and women perspective.

But here's the point of feminism that you seem to miss: It has enabled women to realize that they are self-determining, that they don't need to fit the traditional gender stereotype that you seem to feel they should dutifully remain within. Men get to choose who and what they want to be, so why shouldn't women?

Don't confuse civil right cause with feminism movement; feminism has only enable women to grow up confuse, unhappy and a void of self-realization.

I could take your argument serious if you stop flinging false accusations. I never said a women should stick with a specific role; that's false. We have to be honest and stop selling the blue pill to little girls, stop installing the victim mentality.

Nothing in life is free, you can't have the cake and eat it to so to speak. Western women, specially USA women has slowly but surely lose their ability to nurture, love, care and be naturally beautiful; instead they have become more like men....a role they are not biological equipped to handle. In the process, we have created a bunch of masculine women and feminine men...........the problem is women will always crave strong men, their is no escape to that reality.

The "objectification" or women that feminist decries is a byproduct of their agenda, self-inflicted wound. Hyper promiscuity, binge drinking, partying it up..........geez, girl power right? The wheel keeps turning, devouring clueless and confuse little girls; at the end of the tunnel they come out as angry, mentally unstable and bitter human beings.....thinking about what went wrong.

Interesting points here. Personally I don't think the "social decay" of women is due to some feminist movement. The reason there are more whores and mentally unstable women is due to the changes around them. The same is actually true for men it's just that due to the stereotypical gender roles we tend to notice the "poor behavior" of men less.

Consider the difference in TV shows and movies from just 15-20 years ago. Married with Children was finally banned for being so offensive to fat women while today you have South Park. Married with Children would be just another comedy today and wouldn't be deemed the least bit ofensive. Add to that everyone has access to the internet today and instead of knitting and reading, little girls will be on chatting with boys, reading up on media gossip and the messed up lives of everyone in Hollywood. They might even stumble upon a hell of a lot of porn at an early age. It is often argued that the increase of technology will lead to society's decay and ultimately it's demise. Everyone is just growing up faster these days and are exposed and eventually desensitized to adult matters.

Think 20+ years from now when a vast majority of people work from home, people will almost only be shopping online, there will probably be more violent and sex filled shows, etc. It's only going to get worse...and I don't see any kind of feminism movement being the cause of it.

 

[huntingyou]

Interesting points here. Personally I don't think the "social decay" of women is due to some feminist movement. The reason there are more whores and mentally unstable women is due to the changes around them. The same is actually true for men it's just that due to the stereotypical gender roles we tend to notice the "poor behavior" of men less.

Consider the difference in TV shows and movies from just 15-20 years ago. Married with Children was finally banned for being so offensive to fat women while today you have South Park. Married with Children would be just another comedy today and wouldn't be deemed the least bit ofensive. Add to that everyone has access to the internet today and instead of knitting and reading, little girls will be on chatting with boys, reading up on media gossip and the messed up lives of everyone in Hollywood. They might even stumble upon a hell of a lot of porn at an early age. It is often argued that the increase of technology will lead to society's decay and ultimately it's demise. Everyone is just growing up faster these days and are exposed and eventually desensitized to adult matters.

Think 20+ years from now when a vast majority of people work from home, people will almost only be shopping online, there will probably be more violent and sex filled shows, etc. It's only going to get worse...and I don't see any kind of feminism movement being the cause of it.

It's no black and white nor as simple to pinpoint one particular cause.

I will tell you this though, feminism has changed the dynamics of social interactions between men and women and turned it upside down. It has promised impossible outcomes and demanded unsustainable concessions.

Your typical american women is FAT, lazy and has incredible high standards for potential mates that Brad Pitt seems only capable of fulfilling. You don't see this as much in Eastern Europe, South American and Southeast Asia.....yet.

I have to point out, that civil right causes embraced by feminists are worthy battles.....my attack is solely on gender feminists that pretend to deny biology and claim men and women are equal in every sense of the world.

As a result, the average american women can't nurture their children, obsess too much with her career while relying on child care to do the love and nurturing she can only provide. Then she demands her husband to earn more than her, look better than her and be as much of a mom as her. How many young women do you know that can cook? clean? Aren't you tired of seeing women at the mall in flip flops and spandex? Whatever happened with long hair?

I mean, it's one or the other but you can't be ALL at the SAME time. Androgynous society is doom to fail.....you are seeing it already.