Let's talk about 2017...

[El Dude]

I'm mostly looking forward to what Federer can do on his return, and obviously whether Andy can pick up a few more slams before he's done.

Murray will be the favourite at least the next 2-3 Wimbledons imo and at the upcoming AO.

Well, that depends on at what point Andy chooses to have an affair.

But, on second thoughts Andy may be affair proof; I mean, who would want to have an affair with a foul mouthed whiner. :snicker

The First Lady elect?

 

[El Dude]

Carol, I personally see them in a similar category for a few reasons.

One, Rafa seems older than his 30+ years, and Roger a bit younger than his 35 years. This can be illustrated in a number of ways: Rafa was an early bloomer, while Roger was on the late side--at least for an all-time great.

Secondly, we have to look at the different styles of their games. Rafa's is simply brutal and requires immense physicality and fitness. Roger's does as well but to a much lesser degree, and he can rely more upon his offensive weaponry. Roger also adjusted his game accordingly a few years ago, while Rafa doesn't seem to be doing anything but what he's always done.

Finally, there's the actual results--especially Slams. Rafa hasn't made it past the 4R in his last five Slams, and not past the QF in his last nine--going back to the 2014 French Open. Roger made the SF in both of the Slams he played in this year and was in two finals last year. For whatever reason, Roger just seems better able to go deeper in Slams, and I'm not sure why that would change in 2017.

All that said, I do think Rafa has a better chance of winning a Slam in 2017 than Roger, mainly because Rafa is better at RG than Roger is at any Slam. And of course Rafa is prone to have these surges where he reaches an almost unbeatable level, which we haven't seen from Roger for at least seven years, and probably nine, while we just saw it from Rafa three years ago.

So in summary, you cannot just look at chronological age--there are other factors that have to be taken into account.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I don't finish to understand why some of you can put Rafa and Roger into the same "line'. I expect a lot more from Rafa than Roger and I don't say this because Rafa is may fav but because the age is a very important fact and more

You have already done that twice. :snicker

 

[Carol]

I don't finish to understand why some of you can put Rafa and Roger into the same "line'. I expect a lot more from Rafa than Roger and I don't say this because Rafa is may fav but because the age is a very important fact and more

You have already done that twice. :snicker

Uh?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

OK. I made it visible to you now.

 

[Carol]

Carol, I personally see them in a similar category for a few reasons.

One, Rafa seems older than his 30+ years, and Roger a bit younger than his 35 years. This can be illustrated in a number of ways: Rafa was an early bloomer, while Roger was on the late side--at least for an all-time great.

Secondly, we have to look at the different styles of their games. Rafa's is simply brutal and requires immense physicality and fitness. Roger's does as well but to a much lesser degree, and he can rely more upon his offensive weaponry. Roger also adjusted his game accordingly a few years ago, while Rafa doesn't seem to be doing anything but what he's always done.

Finally, there's the actual results--especially Slams. Rafa hasn't made it past the 4R in his last five Slams, and not past the QF in his last nine--going back to the 2014 French Open. Roger made the SF in both of the Slams he played in this year and was in two finals last year. For whatever reason, Roger just seems better able to go deeper in Slams, and I'm not sure why that would change in 2017.

All that said, I do think Rafa has a better chance of winning a Slam in 2017 than Roger, mainly because Rafa is better at RG than Roger is at any Slam. And of course Rafa is prone to have these surges where he reaches an almost unbeatable level, which we haven't seen from Roger for at least seven years, and probably nine, while we just saw it from Rafa three years ago.

So in summary, you cannot just look at chronological age--there are other factors that have to be taken into account.

Sorry but I disagree. The story/topic about Rafa is simply brutal and requires intense physically and fitness than Roger is simply a "story", the only advantage Roger has over Nadal is his serve which always has helped him more than anything else and of course more on HC and grass but he has to do as more effort than anyone else. Rafa's mayor injury was his knee but NOT because his 'style to play' but because he was born with a malformation of one of his feet which later at 16 years old got broken and even that he was able to continue playing using a special insole it contributed to have problems in his knee. Muscular stretch in his back (AO 14) and now his wrist, well, it's part of the sport and something that the 90% of the athletes have to go through unless they have too much good luck.
Rafa started to win too young, yes, but if you count their miles 5 more years as profesional is a lot plus you should count how many times Roger (before this year) has been out of the court (none) comparing to Rafa who has been months and months out since he was 16, so Roger has hundreds of more miles than Rafa.
Agree that Rafa has had many ups and downs these last two years but Roger who according to you supposedly looks younger and without any injury has not won any GS since 2012, we are talking about 4 years (and 2011 the Tour finals) can you imagine if he would have had the knee injury at that time or before?
And anyway age is age and the knee surgery at 35 years old is not the best for people like you and me but we can continue working but for one athlete is not a joke and less at that age and having to play against the best players which NEEDS a lot of effort and fitness and more after having played only 5 or 6 matches in the whole year. I would be very surprised if he would do well
to do

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Carol, I personally see them in a similar category for a few reasons.

One, Rafa seems older than his 30+ years, and Roger a bit younger than his 35 years. This can be illustrated in a number of ways: Rafa was an early bloomer, while Roger was on the late side--at least for an all-time great.

Secondly, we have to look at the different styles of their games. Rafa's is simply brutal and requires immense physicality and fitness. Roger's does as well but to a much lesser degree, and he can rely more upon his offensive weaponry. Roger also adjusted his game accordingly a few years ago, while Rafa doesn't seem to be doing anything but what he's always done.

Finally, there's the actual results--especially Slams. Rafa hasn't made it past the 4R in his last five Slams, and not past the QF in his last nine--going back to the 2014 French Open. Roger made the SF in both of the Slams he played in this year and was in two finals last year. For whatever reason, Roger just seems better able to go deeper in Slams, and I'm not sure why that would change in 2017.

All that said, I do think Rafa has a better chance of winning a Slam in 2017 than Roger, mainly because Rafa is better at RG than Roger is at any Slam. And of course Rafa is prone to have these surges where he reaches an almost unbeatable level, which we haven't seen from Roger for at least seven years, and probably nine, while we just saw it from Rafa three years ago.

So in summary, you cannot just look at chronological age--there are other factors that have to be taken into account.

Sorry but I disagree. The story/topic about Rafa is simply brutal and requires intense physically and fitness than Roger is simply a "story", the only advantage Roger has over Nadal is his serve which always has helped him more than anything else and of course more on HC and grass but he has to do as more effort than anyone else. Rafa's mayor injury was his knee but NOT because his 'style to play' but because he was born with a malformation of one of his feet which later at 16 years old got broken and even that he was able to continue playing using a special insole it contributed to have problems in his knee. Muscular stretch in his back (AO 14) and now his wrist, well, it's part of the sport and something that the 90% of the athletes have to go through unless they have too much good luck.
Rafa started to win too young, yes, but if you count their miles 5 more years as profesional is a lot plus you should count how many times Roger (before this year) has been out of the court (none) comparing to Rafa who has been months and months out since he was 16, so Roger has hundreds of more miles than Rafa.
Agree that Rafa has had many ups and downs these last two years but Roger who according to you supposedly looks younger and without any injury has not won any GS since 2012, we are talking about 4 years (and 2011 the Tour finals) can you imagine if he would have had the knee injury at that time or before?
And anyway age is age and the knee surgery at 35 years old is not the best for people like you and me but we can continue working but for one athlete is not a joke and less at that age and having to play against the best players which NEEDS a lot of effort and fitness and more after having played only 5 or 6 matches in the whole year. I would be very surprised if he would do well
to do

You are missing the main point. Rafa is undergoing hair transplant. Roger does not need that despite being 5 years older. Surely, Rafa is much older than his physical age. :laydownlaughing

 

[Carol]

Carol, I personally see them in a similar category for a few reasons.

One, Rafa seems older than his 30+ years, and Roger a bit younger than his 35 years. This can be illustrated in a number of ways: Rafa was an early bloomer, while Roger was on the late side--at least for an all-time great.

Secondly, we have to look at the different styles of their games. Rafa's is simply brutal and requires immense physicality and fitness. Roger's does as well but to a much lesser degree, and he can rely more upon his offensive weaponry. Roger also adjusted his game accordingly a few years ago, while Rafa doesn't seem to be doing anything but what he's always done.

Finally, there's the actual results--especially Slams. Rafa hasn't made it past the 4R in his last five Slams, and not past the QF in his last nine--going back to the 2014 French Open. Roger made the SF in both of the Slams he played in this year and was in two finals last year. For whatever reason, Roger
just seems better able to go deeper in Slams, and I'm not sure why that would change in 2017.

All that said, I do think Rafa has a better chance of winning a Slam in 2017 than Roger, mainly because Rafa is better at RG than Roger is at any Slam. And of course Rafa is prone to have these surges where he reaches an almost unbeatable level, which we haven't seen from Roger for at least seven years, and probably nine, while we just saw it from Rafa three years ago.

So in summary, you cannot just look at chronological age--there are other factors that have to be taken into account.

Sorry but I disagree. The story/topic about Rafa is simply brutal and requires intense physically and fitness than Roger is simply a "story", the only advantage Roger has over Nadal is his serve which always has helped him more than anything else and of course more on HC and grass but he has to do as more effort than anyone else. Rafa's mayor injury was his knee but NOT because his 'style to play' but because he was born with a malformation of one of his feet which later at 16 years old got broken and even that he was able to continue playing using a special insole it contributed to have problems in


his knee. Muscular stretch in his back (AO 14) and now his wrist, well, it's part of the sport and something that the 90% of the athletes have to go through unless they have too much good luck.
Rafa started to win too young, yes, but if you count their miles 5 more years as profesional is a lot plus you should count how many times Roger (before this year) has been out of the court (none) comparing to Rafa who has been months and months out since he was 16, so Roger has hundreds of more miles than Rafa.
Agree that Rafa has had many ups and downs these last two years but Roger who according to you
supposedly looks younger and without any injury has not won any GS since 2012, we are talking about 4 years (and 2011 the Tour finals) can you imagine if he would have had the knee injury at that time or before?
And anyway age is age and the knee surgery at 35 years old is not the best for people like you and me but we can continue working but for one athlete is not a joke and less at that age and having to play against the best players which NEEDS a lot of effort and fitness and more after having played only 5 or 6 matches in the whole year. I would be very surprised if he would do well
to do

You are missing the main point. Rafa is undergoing hair transplant. Roger does not need that despite being 5 years older. Surely, Rafa is much older than his physical age. :laydownlaughing

You are missing the main point too, Roger's forehead is getting bigger and bigger but it depends of what he want to do ........:lolz:

 

[the AntiPusher]

Sorry but I disagree. The story/topic about Rafa is simply brutal and requires intense physically and fitness than Roger is simply a "story", the only advantage Roger has over Nadal is his serve which always has helped him more than anything else and of course more on HC and grass but he has to do as more effort than anyone else. Rafa's mayor injury was his knee but NOT because his 'style to play' but because he was born with a malformation of one of his feet which later at 16 years old got broken and even that he was able to continue playing using a special insole it contributed to have problems in


his knee. Muscular stretch in his back (AO 14) and now his wrist, well, it's part of the sport and something that the 90% of the athletes have to go through unless they have too much good luck.
Rafa started to win too young, yes, but if you count their miles 5 more years as profesional is a lot plus you should count how many times Roger (before this year) has been out of the court (none) comparing to Rafa who has been months and months out since he was 16, so Roger has hundreds of more miles than Rafa.
Agree that Rafa has had many ups and downs these last two years but Roger who according to you
supposedly looks younger and without any injury has not won any GS since 2012, we are talking about 4 years (and 2011 the Tour finals) can you imagine if he would have had the knee injury at that time or before?
And anyway age is age and the knee surgery at 35 years old is not the best for people like you and me but we can continue working but for one athlete is not a joke and less at that age and having to play against the best players which NEEDS a lot of effort and fitness and more after having played only 5 or 6 matches in the whole year. I would be very surprised if he would do well
to do

You are missing the main point. Rafa is undergoing hair transplant. Roger does not need that despite being 5 years older. Surely, Rafa is much older than his physical age. :laydownlaughing

You are missing the main point too, Roger's forehead is getting bigger and bigger but it depends of what he want to do ........:lolz:

Great reply:laydownlaughing

 

[El Dude]

Carol, another angle on this is that you have to acknowledge your own bias. I understand that you really, really want to believe that Rafa can come back, so you look at things a certain way and ignore or argue against different perspectives that challenge your "rosy-colored" view. For some reason the thought that Roger could have some gas left in him is threatening to your hope that Rafa will surge. I'm guessing this bothers you because you want to think that the five-year-younger Rafa has many years left in him.

So if you are bemused at why some feel that Roger and Rafa are similar in their potential for a comeback, you're ignoring the fact that Roger fans feel similarly about him as you do about Rafa, and those who are more objective and less biased--whether fans or not--look at both and see a roughly similar situation of an aging great who may or may not have one more surge in him.

 

[Kieran]

Rafa actually is at normal physical and mental levels for a great player his age. He's becoming even more injury prone than usual, he's mentally neither as sharp, nor as strong. He's filled with doubt, he tightens in the clutch, he's lost a yard of speed, he's conservative in his shotmaking. But especially physically, he's normal for that age among high achievers. I have no hopes of him winning big in the future, though as you said above, Dude, I'm hopeful he'll have one of "these surges where he reaches an almost unbeatable level." I don't think that's impossible, but the odds are slim, and getting slimmer...

 

[lacatch]

As some others have said, I expect 2017 to be the most "open" year in terms of titles at big events (slams and masters) than we've seen in some time. Andy has surprised me, and I'm happy for him and his fans, but I don't think his DNA supports a dominating #1 a la Novak, Rafa, or Roger. I think that Novak's issues were a combo of psychological and physical, and I've heard that he still seems to have some arm issues which might explain his decline in serving effectiveness. I expect a stronger 2017 than he had in the second half of 2016, but don't know to what extent And I think that big time success by Roger or Rafa will require a lucky lightening strike for either/both---they obviously have the goods in their DNA, but the engines aren't purring like they used to, and the mentality is still a champion's one but the engine may not cooperate. And finally, I expect to see one of the next tier, Milos, bad Nick, and/or young guns like Thiem or Zverev to have a breakthrough, masters or slam. The best news is: for those complaining about "big four" dominance making the game a bit boring, I think you'll be in for a treat next year

 

[sid]

It's no big 4 any more only a big 2 atm & that's Nole & Andy.

 

[Front242]

Wait and see. People who have seen Roger practicing said he looked incredible on court. Wait and see. It ain't over yet by any means. A ton of points for Roger to potentially gain besides Wimbledon and the AO. Some people here may be left with a big dollop of egg on their face.

 

[herios]

Wait and see. People who have seen Roger practicing said he looked incredible on court. Wait and see. It ain't over yet by any means. A ton of points for Roger to potentially gain besides Wimbledon and the AO. Some people here may be left with a big dollop of egg on their face.

And who were those people who saw him looking incredible? Probably folks like you or GSM...

 

[El Dude]

Rafa actually is at normal physical and mental levels for a great player his age. He's becoming even more injury prone than usual, he's mentally neither as sharp, nor as strong. He's filled with doubt, he tightens in the clutch, he's lost a yard of speed, he's conservative in his shotmaking. But especially physically, he's normal for that age among high achievers. I have no hopes of him winning big in the future, though as you said above, Dude, I'm hopeful he'll have one of "these surges where he reaches an almost unbeatable level." I don't think that's impossible, but the odds are slim, and getting slimmer...

Yes, this. And I think your view (and hope) is quite reasonable.

 

[Front242]

Wait and see. People who have seen Roger practicing said he looked incredible on court. Wait and see. It ain't over yet by any means. A ton of points for Roger to potentially gain besides Wimbledon and the AO. Some people here may be left with a big dollop of egg on their face.

And who were those people who saw him looking incredible? Probably folks like you or GSM...

Posters on tennis.com but even if it were fans lIke GSM or myself we say it like it is. No sugar coated bull$h1t.

 

[El Dude]

Front, you've got me hoping.

 

[Front242]

Front, you've got me hoping.

Think of it this way, El Dude, Roger made the Wimbledon semis with a bad knee and played a great match against Cilic in the quarters showing real grit and fight. Not too much of a stretch that he'll be at least as good as he was injured and most likely better.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Just for the record, I have neither personally seen Roger practicing in the recent past nor seen videos of him practicing. But, I sure hope what I hear are true and is certainly probable.