Lay Your Allegiance Here: World Tour Finals

[herios]

A surprise? I'd be surprised if he wins a single match. Nadal is about the only guy he's gonna beat here but I doubt he'll even manage that.

Just a reminder to you, because Ferrer's trashing by you is really tiresome, he did reach the final of this event in 2007 and the SF in 2011. So he is not just a punching bag.

 

[herios]

Do I need to mention who I am rooting for?
Look at my avatar...

 

[Front242]

A surprise? I'd be surprised if he wins a single match. Nadal is about the only guy he's gonna beat here but I doubt he'll even manage that.

Just a reminder to you, because Ferrer's trashing by you is really tiresome, he did reach the final of this event in 2007 and the SF in 2011. So he is not just a punching bag.

Completely depends on the draw. From group 1 would he beat Djokovic? No. Federer? No. Nishikori? Possibly as their h2h is 8-4 in Kei's favour but only chance would be if Kei wasn't fully fit and served badly imo. Berdych is the only guy I could feasibly see him winning against regardless of all other variables such as fitness as he leads their h2h. From group 2, can't see him beating Murray or Wawrinka, which leaves just Nadal who I could see him beating if things went his way, good line painting and strong forehand performance but really I can't see him beating him either. The court is too damn slow. He'll start to miss and get agitated. Might seem harsh but it's true. Who could you see him beating here in all honesty besides maybe Berdych, a far from 100% Nishikori or a subpar Nadal if he shows up?

 

[Fiero425]

A surprise? I'd be surprised if he wins a single match. Nadal is about the only guy he's gonna beat here, but I doubt he'll even manage that.

Just a reminder to you, because Ferrer's trashing by you is really tiresome, he did reach the final of this event in '07 and the SF in '11. So he's not just a punching bag.

Completely depends on the draw. From group 1, would he beat Djokovic? No. Federer? No. Nishikori? Possibly as their h2h is 8-4 in Kei's favor, but his only chance would be if Kei wasn't fully fit and served badly IMO. Berdych is the only guy I could feasibly see him winning against, regardless of all other variables such as fitness as he leads their h2h. From group 2, can't see him beating Murray or Wawrinka, which leaves just Nadal who I could see him beating if things went his way, good line painting, and strong forehand performance, but really I can't see him beating him either. The court is too damn slow. He'll start to miss and get agitated. Might seem harsh but it's true. Who could you see him beating here in all honesty besides maybe Berdych; a far from 100% Nishikori or a subpar Nadal if he shows up?

Trashing? Where'd Herios get that? Sounds logical to me; Ferrer is a punching bag for the rest of the top echelon! He's breaking down as much as Kei so both will probably get "worked" in this event! Someone invariably winds up being 0-3; happened to Nadal in '09! Nole's got it tough with nary a walkover for him even though Tomas is his personal pigeon! It's been a long season and I wouldn't be surprised if Nole starts "feeling it!" Who else has won all their events on a trot after the USO; Beijeng, Shanghai, and Paris? It's not supposed to happen, but he made it look routine without dropping more than a set! :clap :angel: :dodgy: :ras:

 

[herios]

in 2011, Ferrer defeated at the WTF both Murray and Djokovic.

 

[nehmeth]

Djokovic was playing with a bad shoulder and did very little after the USOpen.

 

[Fiero425]

in 2011, Ferrer defeated at the WTF both Murray and Djokovic.

...and? What's your point? You lose sometimes; esp. after the season Nole had in 2011! The YEC has been terribly overrated at times IMO since it's the culmination of an entire season! The winner has different expectations; Nole's favored and that makes sense, but I wouldn't be surprised if he "let it go!" I've been watching this event since the 70's with isolated "also-rans" taking the title due more to opposition being worn out than their great play; or lack thereof! I keep invoking Nadal's inability to do well here, but he has so much going against him; the court, the time of the year, and of course the top competition from the beginning! Nalbandian, Davydenko, Corretja, & Kuerten aren't going into the HOF due to an isolated win at the YEC! The true champions are the multiple winners like Nastase, Sampras, Lendl, McEnroe, Federer, & now Nole! The rest will have had to do a lot more substantive to achieve that! uzzled

 

[Kirijax]

The World Tour Finals is one of my favorite events and should be considered a major title for different reasons.
Only the top eight players can get in. During the last two months of the year, we see players who have a shot at qualifying do everything they can to get in. Murray 2014 is a good example of that. It's a great honor, you get major exposure, and there are a lot of rankings points at stake.
It's a showcase of the best vs. the best. We get to see 15 matches of the year's top players going against each other. What more could you ask for? Sometimes we see some winners at Slams who didn't have to fight not one person in the Top Ten and take the title easily. But the WTF is unforgiving. Every match is tough and whoever wins the thing really earns it.
It's a testament to physical strength and durability. The season is long and so many players can't cope with it. We've seen so many times, Nadal for example, where the player just doesn't have the physical ability to participate in the whole season and not show up. There are players who have great ability, but their physical ability is not up to WTF standards. The WTF is a true test of a player's durability. Federer and Djokovic have amazing physical bodies that don't often break down. The fact that they were able to take this tournament so many times while Nadal was sitting at home is one reason I scratch Nadal off my GOAT nominee list without a second thought. I think that's why we see players like Corretja or Davydenko win the tournament. They were able to take the title with great play and playing at a time when the "top" players were hurting. There's no shame in being the strongest, most durable player on the tour. The WTF is a great reward for that.
The tournament is often the final stage to determine who is Year-end No. 1. There are years like 2015 where one player just blows every body out of the water, but there have been some years when the YE title came down to the last couple of matches. I remember 2000 when Kuerten overtook Safin by winning the WTF and taking the No. 1 spot. That was exciting. The WTF offers that excitement as well, something the other Slams can't do.
I'd be willing to bet that all the fans of Nadal would be singing a different tune about the tournament if Nadal had won the thing a couple of times. But that may be something we never know.

 

[Kieran]

The World Tour Finals is one of my favorite events and should be considered a major title for different reasons.
Only the top eight players can get in.

Which is why it's not a "major", which is open to even more top players, over a longer time, and over a longer match format.

But the WTF is unforgiving.

It's very forgiving. You could actually lose two matches and still win the tourney...

 

[Fiero425]

The World Tour Finals is one of my favorite events and should be considered a major title for different reasons.
Only the top eight players can get in.

Which is why it's not a "major", which is open to even more top players, over a longer time, and over a longer match format.

But the WTF is unforgiving.

It's very forgiving. You could actually lose two matches and still win the tourney...

You got it! The women's YEC had 2 of them in the final! That's why it's only impressive to me if you can win without the loss of a set or a match, with several titles under your name! :angel: :dodgy: :ras:

 

[Kirijax]

We'll have to agree to disagree guys! I think the WTF is the 5th major and will continue to grow in stature!

 

[Front242]

It clearly is as no other tournament points come close except slams.

 

[Kieran]

We'll have to agree to disagree guys! I think the WTF is the 5th major and will continue to grow in stature!

It's not a fifth major, we had this before. It satisfies none of the criteria the other majors are based on...

 

[Fiero425]

We'll have to agree to disagree guys! I think the WTF is the 5th major and will continue to grow in stature!

It's not a fifth major, we had this before. It satisfies none of the criteria the other majors are based on...

Exactly! It would have to be one of the bigger Masters like Indian Wells or Miami in my book! It has all the top players, some dark horses that can sneak up on you, and everyone has a chance unlike the YEC were only 8 guys are in the running! :angel: :dodgy:

 

[Kirijax]

We'll have to agree to disagree guys! I think the WTF is the 5th major and will continue to grow in stature!

It's not a fifth major, we had this before. It satisfies none of the criteria the other majors are based on...

Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. All the arguments and discussions haven't changed my mind. It's a 5th major in my book.

 

[Kieran]

We'll have to agree to disagree guys! I think the WTF is the 5th major and will continue to grow in stature!

It's not a fifth major, we had this before. It satisfies none of the criteria the other majors are based on...

Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. All the arguments and discussions haven't changed my mind. It's a 5th major in my book.

Your book is obviously fiction... :snicker

 

[nehmeth]

We'll have to agree to disagree guys! I think the WTF is the 5th major and will continue to grow in stature!

It's not a fifth major, we had this before. It satisfies none of the criteria the other majors are based on...

Exactly! The ATP can throw all the points that they want to at this glorified round robin, and it still won't rise to the level of a major.

- It's not a best of five set format
- It's not played over two weeks with the top 32 players in the draw.
- You can lose and still actually win (Novak would have loved that format at the French)
- It's at the end of the year when most of the players are tired, injured, burned out, or focused on Davis Cup finals. :snicker (Last one added for Murray fans).

 

[Fiero425]

What's your earliest memory concerning The Masters? Mine's is of Vilas defeating Nastase on grass in Australia in '74! Ilie had to be favored winning the USO a couple years before and Guillermo being more a clay-courter! All I can remember specifically was that Vilas was hitting the ball so hard directly at Nastase he couldn't put his volleys away and he lost inexplicably in 5 sets! The following year Ilie got revenge in the semi's and came through with a lot of controversy beating Borg in the final on an indoor court as fast as a pane of glass fairly handily "in straights!" :cover

 

[nehmeth]

I don't have many memories of this thing. For me tennis season used to end after the USO and it was on to college football. Nole's post Open runs the last few years have kept me watching.

 

[Fiero425]

I don't have many memories of this thing. For me tennis season used to end after the USO and it was on to college football. Nole's post Open runs the last few years have kept me watching.

It was more an event back then; it was new, moved around the world, and was held on different surfaces!