Kyrgios's problem: skill, not on-court attitude

[Ricardo]

Imagine being an adult who talks like that...

like I said, didn't mean to hurt your ego when I pointed out how flawed and cheap your 'slut shaming' logic was...…..or 'race shaming' or whatever other fashionable bs this culturally degraded society lends itself to.

 

[brokenshoelace]

like I said, didn't mean to hurt your ego when I pointed out how flawed and cheap your 'slut shaming' logic was...…..or 'race shaming' or whatever other fashionable bs this culturally degraded society lends itself to.

Imagine thinking that taunting a black man about slavery isn't a big deal.

 

[brokenshoelace]

So, back to something that isn't Ricardo being a reprehensible grade A moron, there are fundamental problems with Kyrgios' game. Cali alluded to the backhand (and it is at times abysmal), but to me, it's not only that...his ground strokes, cross court, off both wings, are just garbage when it comes to just hitting rally shots. At the elite level, most of the time, players are rallying cross court so that is a huge problem to have. As a result, his point construction is just completely lackluster, and that's why he has to rely on shotmaking so much. Yes, he's a capable shotmaker and can hit some insane, flashy shots, but he has no idea how to build a point together and get himself in position to make use of his biggest weapons.

It's actually similar to the point raised by Wilander, Becker, Mac and Lendl on that podcast that @tented posted in another thread.

 

[Ricardo]

So, back to something that isn't Ricardo being a reprehensible grade A moron, there are fundamental problems with Kyrgios' game. Cali alluded to the backhand (and it is at times abysmal), but to me, it's not only that...his ground strokes, cross court, off both wings, are just garbage when it comes to just hitting rally shots. At the elite level, most of the time, players are rallying cross court so that is a huge problem to have. As a result, his point construction is just completely lackluster, and that's why he has to rely on shotmaking so much. Yes, he's a capable shotmaker and can hit some insane, flashy shots, but he has no idea how to build a point together and get himself in position to make use of his biggest weapons.

It's actually similar to the point raised by Wilander, Becker, Mac and Lendl on that podcast that @tented posted in another thread.

yeah sure with such a lacklustre game with no game plan or how to construct a point, he is one of the very few who beat all of the big 3 in a very short time since being on tour. Says something about the big 3 no?

 

[Chris Koziarz]

Everyone is so up in arms about Donna Vecic, and her "honor" being slung around. No one has ever asked what this did to Kyrgios' friendship with Kokkinakis, the other harmed party in the thing. I've never read that Vecic and Kyrgios were friends, but we are very much given to believe that Kokkinakis and Nick are. If I were Vecic, I'd slug Nick in the face, tell him to go fuck himself and move on. But what if you were Kokkinakis? How would you feel about your friend making you such public 3rd-party fodder for a cheap shot during a high-profile match? Kind of ugly, from a "friend."

Kyrgios & Kokk are good friends as they always have been. I think this Slur did not negatively affect their friendship at all. Presumably, by virtue of being Kyrgios close friend, Kokk may not like Stan and takes Kyrgios' side in that confrontation between the 2. So, if anything, I think Kokk could actually smile and feel proud about conquering Stan's GF. Kyrgios & Kokk may have even joked together calling San cuckold.
Of course Kokk may have felt different but without knowing anything about him, we can only apply typical masculine stereotype what I've done above.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

Based on the replies from you, I need to backpedal on my claim that Kyrgios slur at Stan was "sexist". Indeed, I made lots of inferences about his intentions that don't have support in facts. Mrzz & Broken clearly explained it above, thanks. My opinion is that out of two third parties dragged into said slur, a woman feels much worse than a man. As I realised & explained above, woman's denigration here is the result of cultural perception: women are called "sluts" while men are called "truly masculine" and are envied by their peers. But I cannot prove that Kyrgios exploits said perception. Without such proof Kyrgios cannot be called "sexist".
EDIT: I don't like talking publicly about intimate things (that's why I am doubly disgusted at Kyrgios' slur), maybe that's why I overreacted here. I don't know why I brought this BS topic that generated more turmoil than necessary, sorry about it. But I said this "sexist" opinion, like Kyrgios his slur, without thinking about it.

 

[brokenshoelace]

yeah sure with such a lacklustre game with no game plan or how to construct a point, he is one of the very few who beat all of the big 3 in a very short time since being on tour. Says something about the big 3 no?

17 majors without getting to the second week and counting...

 

[Ricardo]

Based on the replies from you, I need to backpedal on my claim that Kyrgios slur at Stan was "sexist". Indeed, I made lots of inferences about his intentions that don't have support in facts. Mrzz & Broken clearly explained it above, thanks. My opinion is that out of two third parties dragged into said slur, a woman feels much worse than a man. As I realised & explained above, woman's denigration here is the result of cultural perception: women are called "sluts" while men are called "truly masculine" and are envied by their peers. But I cannot prove that Kyrgios exploits said perception. Without such proof Kyrgios cannot be called "sexist".
EDIT: I don't like talking publicly about intimate things (that's why I am doubly disgusted at Kyrgios' slur), maybe that's why I overreacted here. I don't know why I brought this BS topic that generated more turmoil than necessary, sorry about it. But I said this "sexist" opinion, like Kyrgios his slur, without thinking about it.

told you so, idiot. nothing more disgusting when a man says how he knows a woman 'feels' (worse than man) or something like that. The problem these days is there are too many feminine males like you, who follow feminism bs religiously and think they are 'in' with the times.

 

[Ricardo]

17 majors without getting to the second week and counting...

again, idiotic posts. you don't get to beat all of the big 3 without a serious game, period. stop arguing bs out of nothing, substantiated by bollock dislike for the guy. His game is highly regarded by peer players, since when do potatoes get to be the judge?

 

[brokenshoelace]

again, idiotic posts. you don't get to beat all of the big 3 without a serious game, period. stop arguing bs out of nothing, substantiated by bollock dislike for the guy. His game is highly regarded by peer players, since when do potatoes get to be the judge?

A serious game that isn't getting you past the second week of a major for 5 consecutive years. You can keep trying to dance around that, but it's a fact. Yeah, those few matches you're referring to are somehow more telling.

 

[mrzz]

Rublev's set point in the first set is a good evidence of Kyrgio's skill set (at 0:33 in this link). Rublev served a quite weak second serve to Kyrgio's backhand. Most top 20 players would eat that serve alive. He tried to go the DTL winner, but it was a somewhat clumsy shot that missed the line for a few inches. Ok, it is a pressure moment, I get that. But his lack of ability SURELY was a liability for him there. A guy like that qualifier who played Medvedev yesterday, who was able to fire some quite good backhands, would have mounted on that serve for a very easy winner. How that can be left out of the talent discussion I really don't get. I really keep my original line, he has a handful of specific "talents" (serve, quick reflexes, explosiveness, cold blood on big moments, creativity) but the ones he misses (touch, ability to change the ball direction, ability to hit a good ground stroke from bellow the hip) really stop me from calling him an outright and full "talented" player.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

A serious game that isn't getting you past the second week of a major for 5 consecutive years. You can keep trying to dance around that, but it's a fact. Yeah, those few matches you're referring to are somehow more telling.

You don't need to repeat your argument about Kyrgios' poor skills (compared to the top players). We understand and implicitly agree if we are silent.
As for trying to persuade this fact to Ricardo, well... look at GSM's signature. Ricardo's world is not just foolish: it's a world where the rules of logic & civil discussion do not exist, so any attempts to communicate with said world are in vain.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

Rublev's set point in the first set is a good evidence of Kyrgio's skill set (at 0:33 in this link). Rublev served a quite weak second serve to Kyrgio's backhand. Most top 20 players would eat that serve alive. He tried to go the DTL winner, but it was a somewhat clumsy shot that missed the line for a few inches. Ok, it is a pressure moment, I get that. But his lack of ability SURELY was a liability for him there. A guy like that qualifier who played Medvedev yesterday, who was able to fire some quite good backhands, would have mounted on that serve for a very easy winner. How that can be left out of the talent discussion I really don't get. I really keep my original line, he has a handful of specific "talents" (serve, quick reflexes, explosiveness, cold blood on big moments, creativity) but the ones he misses (touch, ability to change the ball direction, ability to hit a good ground stroke from bellow the hip) really stop me from calling him an outright and full "talented" player.

Kyrgios explained his poor performance (in particular his poor backhand you've noticed here) during the match: "Call of Duty has ruined me, bro". He couldn't see the ball, after having played video games (for god knows how long) as his preparation for this match. If his admission is true, it's a pathetic ignorance of the sport & the opponent. He also wanted to "go home", so probably didn't even care much if his returns were in or out. I wonder if based on such open display of negative attitude, ATP fine him for tanking here.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Kyrgios explained his poor performance (in particular his poor backhand you've noticed here) during the match: "Call of Duty has ruined me, bro". He couldn't see the ball, after having played video games (for god knows how long) as his preparation for this match. If his admission is true, it's a pathetic ignorance of the sport & the opponent. He also wanted to "go home", so probably didn't even care much if his returns were in or out. I wonder if based on such open display of negative attitude, ATP fine him for tanking here.

Kyrgios' excuse is always that he's not working hard enough. In this case, it's video games (I guess it's the go-to excuse nowadays, including for mass shootings). Like I said before, it's much easier for a player to claim he's not training hard enough than admitting he's not good enough, and the media LOVES that narrative and eats it up. He knows what he's doing.

 

[Ricardo]

yeah yeah yeah, all those players talking about Kyrgios are wrong, and you potatoes think you know best about Nick. Rublev also just beat Nick and paid high regard to his talent (on top of Federer, Nadal, Mac, FAA, etc etc etc). Simplistic potatoes say it's an excuse, really? his peers know his training regime, if he actually works hard they'd be the first ones to know about it.....while you potatoes don't get a sniff about what he does off court, and think he pretends like he's not working. I don't know how a tennis forum gets all these potatoes who know absolutely nothing but are full of themselves as if they know the guy enough they can actually talk like this.

 

[brokenshoelace]

yeah yeah yeah, all those players talking about Kyrgios are wrong, and you potatoes think you know best about Nick. Rublev also just beat Nick and paid high regard to his talent (on top of Federer, Nadal, Mac, FAA, etc etc etc). Simplistic potatoes say it's an excuse, really? his peers know his training regime, if he actually works hard they'd be the first ones to know about it.....while you potatoes don't get a sniff about what he does off court, and think he pretends like he's not working. I don't know how a tennis forum gets all these potatoes who know absolutely nothing but are full of themselves as if they know the guy enough they can actually talk like this.

At this point I'm convinced this is parody because nobody can ever be that stupid.

 

[Ricardo]

At this point I'm convinced this is parody because nobody can ever be that stupid.

that's all you got? arent you one of the idiots who claimed NK's insult was a sexist slur? being a shameless shemale is bad enough, why continue to get your butt kicked by you know who? Stockholm syndrome much? another fashionable word 'victim shaming'...….oh actually sometimes a victim just prefers to continue being abused.

 

[brokenshoelace]

that's all you got? arent you one of the idiots who claimed NK's insult was a sexist slur? being a shameless shemale is bad enough, why continue to get your butt kicked by you know who? Stockholm syndrome much? another fashionable word 'victim shaming'...….oh actually sometimes a victim just prefers to continue being abused.

Actually I never said it was a sexist slur you dumb moron. Have you actually learned to read?

And no, Stockholm Syndrome isn't quite a victim "preferring" to continue being abused but you're incapable of grasping much simpler concepts, I wouldn't expect your illiterate ass to understand something far more complex.

 

[Ricardo]

So just because something is a fact, it can't be offensive/sexist/racist/etc...?

Context matters, and intentions matter (at least when they're clear). You can taunt a black guy about the history of his people. It's a fact. They were slaves. It doesn't make it any less racist. Obviously this is an extreme example but you know what I mean.

I don't think Kyrgios was willingly thinking he wanted to degrade women, or that particular woman, with his comment. But it's pretty telling as to his mentality (the old slut shaming, or treating women as conquests, etc...)

you mentioned slut shaming on Nick's part, then his slur there and then would be sexist because you believe that's his mentality (again I am not surprised as you once again claim to know). Slut shaming is sexist by definition, what the fuck are you still whinging about? I know your fellow idiot CK actually said it, but don't try and say it wasn't your implication....you shameless idiot.

 

[brokenshoelace]

you mentioned slut shaming on Nick's part, then his slur there and then would be sexist because you believe that's his mentality (again I am not surprised as you once again claim to know). Slut shaming is sexist by definition, what the fuck are you still whinging about? I know your fellow idiot CK actually said it, but don't try and say it wasn't your implication....you shameless idiot.

Again it's really not surprising to me that you don't grasp nuance (the main problem with someone being legitimately stupid is they don't realize it), then again, you didn't even know what Stockholm syndrome is.