Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome - ATP Masters 1000

[don_fabio]

I also think with Jannik,I know his team is working on,is his serve,he is a tall young man and should be able to get more zip on it

And it's a bit ugly too. That motion is not my cup of tea.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I taught tennis "way back when" and instructing the serve was my specialty! It's a confidence thing really! You can have the worst technique and have a very effective serve while someone with the best technique can have bad outings if they aren't "feeling it!" I never sweated my serving; the one good thing that never really broke down in my game! I think it had to do with my long arms and being able to "really" reach up to hit the ball at the apex of my swing! If in a real groove, esp. playing indoors, I might go 1st serves on the 2nd attempt and make it! I felt confident enough to bet my doubles partner I'd not only ace them twice, but tell them what side I was hitting the ball! With indoor tennis I felt invincible and won more tourney matches under those conditions; or lack thereof! It's hard to believe these top pros have serving issues! It has to be nerves IMO because they wouldn't get thru the ranks playing the way they do when losing against top flight competition! It's worse on the women's side where they specialize in breaking serve, but the real breakdown is in their technique and lack of confidence to "go for it!"

Agree it can be a confidence thing,also for me it starts with the ball toss.Jannik does have long arms,so it is a matter of practice and then taking that onto the court for matches.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

And it's a bit ugly too. That motion is not my cup of tea.

Yep,though for me it starts with the ball toss first and foremost.

 

[Fiero425]

Agree it can be a confidence thing,also for me it starts with the ball toss.Jannik does have long arms,so it is a matter of practice and then taking that onto the court for matches.

I have to look closer the next time the match comes on! I've seen horrible serving with tall guys with long arms! That's no guarantee! Thinking of the women., Daveporte was the best example of someone who never took advantage of her height, preferring to spin the outside of the ball taking so much power away from the possibilities! I swear I could change Venus' delivery for the better in 5 minutes! Her coaches must be incompetent to allow that bad serving all these years!

 

[the AntiPusher]

I also think with Jannik,I know his team is working on,is his serve,he is a tall young man and should be able to get more zip on it,his 2nd serve at times is wayward,though he is young and has plenty of time to improve in that area.
Yep agree his transition to the net is also an area for improvement.
The one area that has always impressed me with Jannik at age 19 is his composure on court....

As long as he doesn't capture a GS title before his birthday .. which means that he will technically no longer be a teenager. I'm good with that.

 

[Front242]

As long as he doesn't capture a GS title before his birthday .. which means that he will technically no longer be a teenager. I'm good with that.

Haha, I see what you did there

 

[Moxie]

Yeah, I like that point and hope its true (re: Toni and FAA).

Also, I was wrong about Diego being his first top 10 scalp. That would be Tsitsipas twice back in 2019, when Stefanos was ranked #10 and #7.

As far as the meteor analogy, which I like, I agree that I don't see one among the current crop, but it is only a matter of time before another comes by. Going back through tennis history, as far as meteoric talents, you have Gonzales in the 50s, Laver in the 60s and early 70s, Borg in the late 70s to early 80s, Sampras in the 90s, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic in the 00s and 10s...so there's been at least one in every decade. And more if you count guys like McEnroe who were meteoric for shorter periods of time.

But the problem may be with the idea of looking for "next Roger" (or Rafa or Novak). They are, as a group and individuals, singular in tennis history. I'm a baseball and Angels fan and they currently have the best player in the game, Mike Trout. The problem is that every prospect inevitably gets compared to Trout, so everyone falls short. So rather than looking for the next Roger-Rafa-Novak, maybe we should be looking for the next Edberg-Becker-Agassi.

I stole the meteor analogy, from Wertheim in Strokes of Genius, I think. (An interesting read, even if you don't want revisit the Wimbledon '08 final, which he uses to wrap their respective biographies of development around.) He said that most coaches don't have a meteor cross their paths ever, and 'Toni Nadal did, in the form of his own nephew.' As hard as Toni was on Rafa, trying to keep him from getting too big for himself, he was willing to praise him to others. He told Carlos Costa, when Costa was still a player, that he really believed his nephew could win the French Open someday, and Costa said, "But he's only 8!" (True story.) So real talent may be recognizable early, but I think it helps if you get to be the one to nurture it.

I agree that it's not useful to look for (or expect) the next Roger/Rafa/Novak anytime soon. That was a point I was trying to make. We've grown all too used to having "once in a lifetime" or decade, at least, talents popping up of late, and we keep looking for their immediate successors. I do think we have to lower our expectations. There are some very good youngsters emerging now, and we may get a breakout star. But if it's a matter of Roger, Rafa and Novak aging out and giving way, I don't think we have a singular talent, yet. Remember that Fedalovic were beating oldsters and youngsters from pretty early on. They didn't wait for a window, they created it.

Young Sinner acquitted himself very well today, even though he had little to show for it. But he pressed Rafa hard, on proper clay, and held onto his head through breaks and breaks-back. Worth remembering that Rafa chose him as his hitting partner in the lockdown at AO, so Sinner had a real chance to get used to the weight of shot, and it showed.

 

[El Dude]

It matters if you’re one of the other top 4 seeds and you're slated to meet him in the SF’s , or a top 8 player and slated to meet him in the qtrs. As in potentially opening up that side as he's expected to crash and burn.

Of course i use potentially because draws at Majors take a life of their own and crazy things occur unexpectedly.

You are killing me...As a SF Giants fan I will NEVER get over the 2002 World Series against your Angels when the Giants were ahead 3 games to 2 with a big lead and somehow Dusty Baker not only relieved Ortiz but had the gall to give him the gameball and of course the baseball gods punished him for his hubris......

But I'm not bitter.

Ah, you poor Giants fans . I just re-watched the last few innings of game 6 - how glorious that was. At the time I was living in NoCal and at a hot springs spa with my girlfriend. People were watching the game in the common area and everyone was Giants fans. I left when it was 5-0, feeling downcast, but then on the drive back I turned on the radio and Spiezio had hit that bomb. I was ecstatic.

The Angels had the magic that year. And yeah, Bonds was ridiculous. What else could they do but walk him? I think he hit .700 that series. But at least you got not one but THREE titles in 2010/12/14 (if I remember correctly), plus the Giants are surprising good this year with Buster back to his old self. You shouldn't complain too much.

 

[El Dude]

@Moxie , yeah, I was pleased to see the result - Sinner is closing the gap. I don't see him challenging Rafa or Novak on the big stage yet, but maybe next year. He could be the One...

(Here we go again )

 

[Moxie]

@Moxie , yeah, I was pleased to see the result - Sinner is closing the gap. I don't see him challenging Rafa or Novak on the big stage yet, but maybe next year. He could be the One...

(Here we go again )

See? You're not even going to take your own advice. But yes, it did feel like a gap-closing match. Rafa was better than he has been. (Not without more UFE's as usual, as I think @don_fabio thought, and the serve is still not where it needs to be.) But it was a very good Rafa, on a surface that favors him (by which I mean specifically Rome, not just clay.) By next year, as you say, I'm going to be afraid of him for even Nadal at RG. His cool head is one of his great strengths. He puts disappointment behind him. Some good analysis above as to what he needs to work on, but he will, I'm sure. Plus, he'll gain some muscle...he's still pretty skinny. As much as we want to avoid the temptation, I'm sure we're all ready to put money on Sinner right now, as the next One.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

See? You're not even going to take your own advice. But yes, it did feel like a gap-closing match. Rafa was better than he has been. (Not without more UFE's as usual, as I think @don_fabio thought, and the serve is still not where it needs to be.) But it was a very good Rafa, on a surface that favors him (by which I mean specifically Rome, not just clay.) By next year, as you say, I'm going to be afraid of him for even Nadal at RG. His cool head is one of his great strengths. He puts disappointment behind him. Some good analysis above as to what he needs to work on, but he will, I'm sure. Plus, he'll gain some muscle...he's still pretty skinny. As much as we want to avoid the temptation, I'm sure we're all ready to put money on Sinner right now, as the next One.

I am happy to donate some Euro's

 

[the AntiPusher]

I have to look closer the next time the match comes on! I've seen horrible serving with tall guys with long arms! That's no guarantee! Thinking of the women., Daveporte was the best example of someone who never took advantage of her height, preferring to spin the outside of the ball taking so much power away from the possibilities! I swear I could change Venus' delivery for the better in 5 minutes! Her coaches must be incompetent to allow that bad serving all these years! i

Can you imagine if Venus had converted to a serve and volley especially on grass when she turned 30..I think she would've won a few more Grand slams especially on grass.. Speaking of arms, (Venus) would've been nearly impossible to hit a passing shot by her .

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I Have To Post This Gem from Medvedev,
Gerry Armstrong who was sitting courtside at his match,

"Gerry,please default me,it would be better for everybody"................LOL!

 

[Fiero425]

Can you imagine if Venus had converted to a serve and volley especially on grass when she turned 30..I think she would've won a few more Grand slams especially on grass.. Speaking of arms, (Venus) would've been nearly impossible to hit a passing shot by her .

Venus was incompetent at the net as well! The point was usually won on the approach shot! Any lucky stab winners were just that; "lucky!" So often she was passed and made to look foolish; esp. against a nemesis like Hingis! She took swinging volleys to a whole new level just whacking the ball as hard as she could and prayed the ball in! Venus was so overrated IMO! Even their own father, Richard said Serena was better when they were younger!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Just quickly looking at the mens matches tomorrow
Pick of the matches for me is The Young Greek vs Matteo Berretini.

 

[Moxie]

I Have To Post This Gem from Medvedev,
Gerry Armstrong who was sitting courtside at his match,

"Gerry,please default me,it would be better for everybody"................LOL!

I do have to say, Medvedev is the inheritor of the Safin mantle, at least in terms of the Russians. Very Dostoyevskian. They're guilty of Crimes, and given to a lot of self-Punishment. The other great Drama Queen in men's tennis is Fognini. He's the tenor in his own personal tragic opera.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I do have to say, Medvedev is the inheritor of the Safin mantle, at least in terms of the Russians. Very Dostoyevskian. They're guilty of crimes, and given to a lot of self-punishment. The other great Drama Queen in men's tennis is Fognini. He's the tenor in his own personal tragic opera.

So true on all accounts.

 

[Moxie]

Just quickly looking at the mens matches tomorrow
Pick of the matches for me is The Young Greek vs Matteo Berretini.

I do think that's the one to watch. They played once, with Tsitsipas winning in a tight 4 at AO. If there were more of a crowd in Rome, I might favor Berrettini. (Same as today I think Sinner could have used crowd support, at least to go 3.) Still, I won't pick a winner, though I'd lean Stefanos, if I had money on it.

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I do think that's the one to watch. They played once, with Tsitsipas winning in a tight 4 at AO. If there were more of a crowd in Rome, I might favor Berrettini. (Same as today I think Sinner could have used crowd support, at least to go 3.) Still, I won't pick a winner, though I'd lean Stefanos, if I had money on it.

Yep I remember that match at the AO,still The Young Greek has impressed me on clay,though I have to support my Italian.

 

[Jelenafan]

I was digusted with the Angels and Scioscia in particular walking Bonds in the 1st inning with no men on base! That was gutless! They were still down and should've lost the Series, but I haven't paid much attention to baseball since; believe it or not! I barely kept up with my 2 baseball teams here in Chicago when they won their respective World Series! The Cubs I didn't watch at all and saw at least half of the White Sox when they won in '05; (being a South-sider)!

Fiero, if there is one thing I've learned about Chicago people is there is no love lost between Cubs and White Sox fans. I once made the mistake of congratulating a Chi buddy when the Cubs were on the verge of winning the World Series after like 100 years, and he calmly informed me as a White Sox fan he wouldn't mind if the Cubs didn't win for another 100 years ...LOL

I taught tennis "way back when" and instructing the serve was my specialty! It's a confidence thing really! You can have the worst technique and have a very effective serve while someone with the best technique can have bad outings if they aren't "feeling it!"

Yes, yes, yes,! Technique can be overrated. To me, footwork is underrated, you can have strange unorthodox or even "bad" technique on your FH or BH but if you are in a good position to hit the ball, it can go in. Footwork and eye to hand coordination make up for the lack of "pretty" classic technique people are always espousing.