Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome - ATP Masters 1000

MargaretMcAleer

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
47,120
Reactions
31,028
Points
113
Va bene, lasciando stare quello spagnolo per l'italiano, for those who were complaining:

A lot going on tomorrow on the men's side:

I will not be waking up for Thiem v. Fucsovic

Sinner v Nadal could be interesting, but hopeful uneventful for the Nadal fans.

Medvedev v. Karatsev has to be the one to watch.

Tsitsipas has Cilic. Speaking of people who are on a slide.
Pretty ordinary matches,well as a Italian it is my duty to watch my youngster Sinner
Medvedev v Karastsev agree is the one to watch
Can the Young Greek who showed solid consistent results on the clay,get back to his winning ways in Roma?I think he can against Cilic
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,821
Reactions
14,981
Points
113
Pretty ordinary matches,well as a Italian it is my duty to watch my youngster Sinner
Medvedev v Karastsev agree is the one to watch
Can the Young Greek who showed solid consistent results on the clay,get back to his winning ways in Roma?I think he can against Cilic
Yes, I think so. Cilic is definitely in the "sell" column.
 

MargaretMcAleer

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
47,120
Reactions
31,028
Points
113
BTW where the hell is Stan the Man I wonder if he will play a smaller clay tournament before RG or will he skip RG this year?
I saw a video of him strength training that was a couple of days ago.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AnonymousFan

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,821
Reactions
14,981
Points
113
As far as Gasquet (and Monfils) is concerned, it is hard not to think that there's something to the idea that the French have a tendency to roll over. On the other hand, I've never been really impressed with Gasquet. I mean, he was a very good player but he just never looked elite, and with the competition there was just no way through the gauntlet. He didn't only have the Big Four ahead of him, but also guys like Ferrer, Berdych, and Tsonga. He reminds me a bit of contemporary guys like Bautista Agut or Carreno Busta; maybe I'm misremembering, but like those guys there was never a sense that Gasquet would break through to true elite status (even if, I think, Gasquet was a bit better than those two).

I do think we know some of the perennial top 5 guys of the new decade: Tsitsipas and Medvedev will be ensconced for years, and Zverev, Rublev, and one or two others will be frequent visitors at least. And I think at least some of these guys will win Slams, but I think the big unknown is the next "One," and I think we both agree that there's no clear candidate.

I vaguely remember asking this before, but I only followed tennis casually in the late 90s and early 00s so don't remember much of Rafa and Roger before stardom. At what point was it clear that they were "the One(s)?" I can't imagine it was before they were starting to win at least Masters--Roger in 2001 and Rafa in 2005. It was obviously very clear that Rafa would be great as soon as he started cleaning up in the 2005 clay season, even before Roland Garros. And Roger was on the radar for a few years before his ascendancy in 2004. But my point is, until it happens it remains unknown. Even when Roger won his first Slam in 2003, no one expected him to be as good as he has been. It wasn't really clear that he was an all-time great until he won his second or even third Slam. Same with Rafa, and Novak for that matter.

At the risk of another long post, I'm trying to single out a point. I think there are stages towards "the revelation of greatness." There's the stage the young guns are in now, where they're all candidates with some more likely than others. Then there's the stage when one makes the big breakthrough--not just a big title or even Slam, but sustained dominance. At that point there's the question of how dominant they can be.

I think the problem we're seeing with the young guys is that while several have flirted with that second stage--notably Zverev, Thiem, Medvedev, and Tsitsipas--none have taken it up another notch to the third stage: the #1 ranking and sustained dominance and/or multiple Slams.

I think I've talked about this before, but I kind of see it as if there are thresholds that are crossed on the way up. There's entering and sustaining a top 100 ranking. Then there's the jump to regular Slam seeding (top 30-40). And then another jump into and remaining with the top 20. Then a jump into the top 10, then top 5, then reaching number one. With each threshold, players peel away and stall out somewhere. Someone like Borna Coric rose quickly and very young, but then got stuck in the "Slam seed stage" (and barely that). Rublev and Berrettini are stuck in the top 10 stage, but not quite able to get into the top 5. Tsitsipas, Zverev, Thiem, and Medvedev have stalled out in the top 5 stage but haven't reached #1 (yet). And, of course, FAA and Shapo are stuck in the top 20 stage, recently joined by Sinner (who still has that fresh quality of not getting stuck anywhere, which makes him at least seem more promising than others).

But I think we kind of have to mentally dial back to the end of 2019, before covid started messing up the works. Since then the tour has just been weird. It seems to be readjusting this year, but there is still an impact. My point being, if we kind of "staple" the end of 2019 onto the beginning of 2021, some of those stallings don't look as bad. Or maybe I'm being too generous.

Good on FAA, then for first top 10 scalp, and well-noted.

What I remember of early Roger and know of early Rafa: Roger was pegged early for his talent. There was rather a lot of waiting for him to win a Major, and even though he was nearly 22 when he did, no one can call it "late." From there he took off like a rocket ship. But to your question, no one knew he was "the One," they just spotted the talent. You can go back to the comparison with Dimitrov. Everyone saw the talent, but no one suspected the flaws. Same with Rafa, I suppose. He was spotted very early. Moyá was already telling everyone who would listen that he was a future #1, which Roger also said, when Rafa beat him in Miami, at 17 in 2004. But did they know? No one knows for sure. Toni Nadal spotted Djokovic early at Wimbledon and told Rafa and the team, "We're in trouble." I don't know if the saw that soupçon of something extra, or if it's no different than scouting these kids now. Point is, I don't think anyone can know how a career will unfold. My other point would be that I don't think that meteors cross the sky that often, and I won't be looking for any of the current batch to be that. Maybe it does mean something that Toni Nadal is willing to travel to work with Felix. He knows what a meteor looks like.
 
  • Like
Reactions: El Dude

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,821
Reactions
14,981
Points
113
BTW where the hell is Stan the Man I wonder if he will play a smaller clay tournament before RG or will he skip RG this year?
I saw a video of him strength training that was a couple of days ago.
Had minor surgery on his left foot some weeks back. No indication he is playing in Geneva, or even RG, but hopefully both are good options.
 

napo

Pro Tour Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
355
Reactions
177
Points
43
Thiem looking bad. Far from his best level.
Also questionable if he is over his motivational issues yet?
 

napo

Pro Tour Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
355
Reactions
177
Points
43
Thiem won the 2nd in the TB.
 

napo

Pro Tour Champion
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
355
Reactions
177
Points
43
Game, set and match Thiem. He woke up just in time.

Rublev lost the 1st in TB against Struff, tried 3 times to break his racket and and couldn't even do that .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AnonymousFan

Jelenafan

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Sep 15, 2013
Messages
3,700
Reactions
5,059
Points
113
Location
California, USA
Medvedev completely demolished. Expected much closer match, but Aslan was ruthless. Medvedev better not even participate in Paris, for the sake of the draw. Just clueless on clay.
What do you mean, he’s the # 2 seed ! ; )

I can imagine sone of the other players pouring out goats blood hoping they are on his side of the draw for RG.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,821
Reactions
14,981
Points
113
What do you mean, he’s the # 2 seed ! ; )

I can imagine sone of the other players pouring out goats blood hoping they are on his side of the draw for RG.

Doesn't look like it will matter much either way. He had said that his ambition this year was to get out of the first round at the French, but even that's starting to look like a pipe dream. The draw will hardly notice he was ever there, most likely.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: AnonymousFan

El Dude

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
10,288
Reactions
6,035
Points
113
Good on FAA, then for first top 10 scalp, and well-noted.

What I remember of early Roger and know of early Rafa: Roger was pegged early for his talent. There was rather a lot of waiting for him to win a Major, and even though he was nearly 22 when he did, no one can call it "late." From there he took off like a rocket ship. But to your question, no one knew he was "the One," they just spotted the talent. You can go back to the comparison with Dimitrov. Everyone saw the talent, but no one suspected the flaws. Same with Rafa, I suppose. He was spotted very early. Moyá was already telling everyone who would listen that he was a future #1, which Roger also said, when Rafa beat him in Miami, at 17 in 2004. But did they know? No one knows for sure. Toni Nadal spotted Djokovic early at Wimbledon and told Rafa and the team, "We're in trouble." I don't know if the saw that soupçon of something extra, or if it's no different than scouting these kids now. Point is, I don't think anyone can know how a career will unfold. My other point would be that I don't think that meteors cross the sky that often, and I won't be looking for any of the current batch to be that. Maybe it does mean something that Toni Nadal is willing to travel to work with Felix. He knows what a meteor looks like.
Yeah, I like that point and hope its true (re: Toni and FAA).

Also, I was wrong about Diego being his first top 10 scalp. That would be Tsitsipas twice back in 2019, when Stefanos was ranked #10 and #7.

As far as the meteor analogy, which I like, I agree that I don't see one among the current crop, but it is only a matter of time before another comes by. Going back through tennis history, as far as meteoric talents, you have Gonzales in the 50s, Laver in the 60s and early 70s, Borg in the late 70s to early 80s, Sampras in the 90s, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic in the 00s and 10s...so there's been at least one in every decade. And more if you count guys like McEnroe who were meteoric for shorter periods of time.

But the problem may be with the idea of looking for "next Roger" (or Rafa or Novak). They are, as a group and individuals, singular in tennis history. I'm a baseball and Angels fan and they currently have the best player in the game, Mike Trout. The problem is that every prospect inevitably gets compared to Trout, so everyone falls short. So rather than looking for the next Roger-Rafa-Novak, maybe we should be looking for the next Edberg-Becker-Agassi.
 

Front242

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
23,004
Reactions
3,946
Points
113
I suggest the French Officals at RG just post Medvedev a mens towel now,as a souvenir....:)

Medvedev

"It's the worst surface in the world for me.But if you like to be in the dirt like a dog,I don;t judge".
Hadn't noticed you'd already posted this so I deleted my post but Medvedev is hilarious :lulz1:
 
  • Haha
Reactions: AnonymousFan

the AntiPusher

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
17,021
Reactions
7,151
Points
113
A time violation warning already for poor Rafa.. Rafa dropping the ball short. It's gonna be a long day but hopefully he will figure it out
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Fiero425