Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome ATP 1000, 2018

[Moxie]

Oh yes, very different! From Hero (win in Montreal), to Minus Zero ("Dzumhur's experience" 0-6 1-6 or similar). The kid will feel lucky for every point he wins far and in between, not to mention any game on the scoreboard!

We'll see how it goes. And I do apologize for the fact that I still always seem to fall one syllable short when trying to pronounce or spell his name.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Shapo is doing fine. At the beginning of the clay season, it looked as though he will not excel in clay. But, he learned quickly and reached SF at Madrid (although Madrid is a different kind of tourney). While I don't expect Shapo to win against Rafa, I don't think he will be humiliated.

 

[El Dude]

I don't forget and I've said it many times. I started that post with, "I know he's young." I'm well-aware that Rafa was the last great teenager and Pete and Marat before him. I'm really only reacting to those that are putting a lot on his shoulders. (I think GSM has nominated him for President.) As I say, I think he's got great potential, but he's got a lot of seasoning to get. Likewise, I think Tsitsipas is coming on fast, but even as much as I'm "bandwagoning" him, I don't expect much immediately. I'd say all of these promising young guys at the top of the radar are on track. But I don't see anything wrong with pointing out that they are young and lacking in certain polish. That's all I'm saying about Shapo. Like most, I'm pegging him for real stardom, but he's not there yet. His powerful racquet still proceeds his head.

As far as great teenagers: note the names. Whether or not tennis is aging, I don't expect a Rafa or Pete or Marat to come along every generation, anyway. Who knows when we'll see a teenager like that again, or if ever.

Yeah, I know - sorry, didn't mean to come off preachy. I was more meaning to elaborate what you were already saying.

I haven't watched Tsitsipas play yet so don't have a sense of him, but based upon age-rankings combo (which isn't definitive, but gives us a starting point) I'd pencil him in the future second tier group with Rublev and Tiafoe, behind Zverev and Shapo but ahead of the Coric/Pouille types. Something like:

First tier (multi-Slam winners, regular #1s): Shapo, Zverev
Second tier (Slam darkhorses, Masters winners, regular top 10): Chung, Rublev, Tiafoe, Tsitsipas, Kyrgios (if he ever gets his shit together)
Third tier (Masters darkhorses, multiple 250/500 winners, regularly seeded at Slams): Pouille, Coric, Khachanov, Medvedev, Donaldson, Kyrgios (as he is now), etc...

Too soon to tell: Aliassime, Moutet, De Minaur, Kuhn, etc

I would add Thiem into the second tier, if we include him as NextGen. There are many others who will be at least third tier, but hard to place at this point and could end up as "fourth tier" non-seeded journeymen (e.g. Fritz, Mmoh, Ruud, Bublik, Kokkinakis, etc).

By the way, I think this second tier will win more Slams than the current second tier, due to peaking in a post-peak Big Four era. Presumably.

But I digress from Roma...

 

[Chris Koziarz]

We'll see how it goes. And I do apologize for the fact that I still always seem to fall one syllable short when trying to pronounce or spell his name.

Forget it because most friends call him Shapo and I'm 100% sure he will be known as such if he eventually breaks into stardom. No one will remember his full name, just like artists with big stage names (e.g. Lorde) are known only as such. "Denis" does sound really flat & inconspicuous in his case (unlike Roger or Rafa) so they won't even remember his true first name when his nickname grows big. I'm sure he already likes it.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Um, no, I don't think he's softened. See his post above. :lulz2:

It was sarcastic

 

[britbox]

Tsitsipas had an early lead on del Potro. Experience showed, overall, but I still think the young Greek has a lot of chops and up-side. The first set really could have gone either way. The commies say that he has not just the game, but the work ethic. That he'll fly to hit with Rafa for 3 hours, etc. That's a good sign.

I'm really liking Tsitsipas, the fact he's a one hander on the backhand wing is the icing on the cake. I read a lot of background intel on him over the last couple of weeks and he says he has no fear on court since a near-drowning experience at sea.

 

[imjimmy]

I’m eagerly waiting for Shapo to get his game in order. He is fun to watch unlike AZ who I predict will have the better career because he has the simpler game which usually leads to more consistency.

I agree with this. Given what we are seeing, it almost seems preordained that AZ will be the true successor to Fed/Nadal/Djokovic.
Hard to see anyone else who has as much motivation/consistency and upside.
Personally, I would prefer to watch Shapovalov than the young German, but I have no doubt in my mind as to who will have a greater career when all is said and done.

 

[isabelle]

Shapo beat Manacor's bull once if my memory is good, let's see what happens on clay

 

[Moxie]

I'm really liking Tsitsipas, the fact he's a one hander on the backhand wing is the icing on the cake. I read a lot of background intel on him over the last couple of weeks and he says he has no fear on court since a near-drowning experience at sea.

I heard this. He was caught in a riptide and it was his father that pulled him out. But it's given him "perspective," he says. Interesting kid. Oh, yeah, and you people who have a one-hander fetish.

 

[Moxie]

Rafa blowing a lot of break opportunities so far, in both games, but this game isn't over just yet.

 

[Moxie]

Ha! Shapo passed Nadal Rafa-style for the game.

 

[Moxie]

On the 9th opportunity, Rafa breaks. But Shapo is trying to keep up his intensity and minimize the errors. He's come to meet the challenge.

 

[Moxie]

Del Potro about the win the 2nd, but had to retire. I saw him seem to have groin issue? So Goffin moves on. Rafa takes the first on the one break. 6-4. Shapo rather hanging on by his fingernails but respectable effort.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Rafa blowing a lot of break opportunities so far, in both games, but this game isn't over just yet.

Rafa played to passively the first few games..he should've lovabye the cocky Northerner

 

[the AntiPusher]

It was sarcastic

Pure sarcasm is what i meant

 

[Moxie]

Rafa played to passively the first few games..he should've lovabye the cocky Northerner

He's barely lost a point on serve, though.

 

[Moxie]

They showed a really cute piece of film from 2008 Roger's Cup. They bring the little kids to the net for the photo before the match, and there with Nadal is 11 year old Denis Shapavolov...looks the same only about 3 feet tall. So cute!

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

They showed a really cute piece of film from 2008 Roger's Cup. They bring the little kids to the net for the photo before the match, and there with Nadal is 11 year old Denis Shapavolov...looks the same only about 3 feet tall. So cute!

 

[herios]

Yeah, I know - sorry, didn't mean to come off preachy. I was more meaning to elaborate what you were already saying.

I haven't watched Tsitsipas play yet so don't have a sense of him, but based upon age-rankings combo (which isn't definitive, but gives us a starting point) I'd pencil him in the future second tier group with Rublev and Tiafoe, behind Zverev and Shapo but ahead of the Coric/Pouille types. Something like:

First tier (multi-Slam winners, regular #1s): Shapo, Zverev
Second tier (Slam darkhorses, Masters winners, regular top 10): Chung, Rublev, Tiafoe, Tsitsipas, Kyrgios (if he ever gets his shit together)
Third tier (Masters darkhorses, multiple 250/500 winners, regularly seeded at Slams): Pouille, Coric, Khachanov, Medvedev, Donaldson, Kyrgios (as he is now), etc...

Too soon to tell: Aliassime, Moutet, De Minaur, Kuhn, etc

I would add Thiem into the second tier, if we include him as NextGen. There are many others who will be at least third tier, but hard to place at this point and could end up as "fourth tier" non-seeded journeymen (e.g. Fritz, Mmoh, Ruud, Bublik, Kokkinakis, etc).

By the way, I think this second tier will win more Slams than the current second tier, due to peaking in a post-peak Big Four era. Presumably.

But I digress from Roma...

Aside the top 2, I don't agree with all the names in the clustering you have done. But that is another subject, not really pertinent here in this thread.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Shapo beat Manacor's bull once if my memory is good, let's see what happens on clay

It’s funny how everyone’s memories are enhances when it comes to every player Rafa looses too..Can you name the last 10 players that has defeated Novak or Roger?