Internazionali BNL d'Italia, Rome ATP 1000, 2018

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,542
Reactions
5,607
Points
113
That would not work on clay but I can not prove it because federer never plays on clay these days.
I'm not sure it would work on clay either. The court speed would probably allow Rafa to grind him down. Personally I'm done watching Roger getting tuned by Rafa on clay. That shit is old
 

Andy22

Major Winner
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
1,975
Reactions
488
Points
83
Location
Australia
I'm not sure it would work on clay either. The court speed would probably allow Rafa to grind him down. Personally I'm done watching Roger getting tuned by Rafa on clay. That shit is old
Not even one more time on a fast clay court?
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,542
Reactions
5,607
Points
113
Not even one more time on a fast clay court?
Nah.. at this point I just want Roger to rack up on Wimbledon's and this USO shite has to stop. If my boy can win 3 slams this year I'll be happy and willing to let it go at that (I can't guarantee I'll feel the same way next January of course :D )
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,563
Reactions
14,714
Points
113
Anytime any player builds a streak of any kind, it puts a mental pressure (Even Donald Young was afraid he may win a match when he was building up a long streak of losses :lol6::lulz2:). But, that is a mental fatigue, if anything. To say he was gassed is talking about physical fatigue.
(Good one about DY. :lulz2:) Let's say he was maybe a bit "spent." Plus, he was in a final v. Federer, who got the better of him. It's not an excuse for the loss. We were talking about the bagel, and folks were giving the bigger picture of what was going on at the time.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,563
Reactions
14,714
Points
113
I stay well out of PED discussions. I simply don't feel comfortable without facts. I do think that there's some dodgy stuff with respect to transparency when players are caught. That said I believe that Federer and Nadal are so good that there doesn't have to be any performance enhancements. Superficially it would seem that Rafa's athletic style opens him up to accusations about PEDs, whereas any reasonable observation about how Roger wins his matches makes it less likely. But I consider all of that irrelevant without facts. If I went down that road I could well loathe Rafa with the same passion DF does. It's not worth my emotional energy! :)
As you say, it's a very superficial argument. I'll respect your preference to stay out of the PED discussion, but I'll just ask you to think about this, which I ask Darth and Front and they never have a good response: he's always played like that, looked like this, and was having great wins from 16, a Major at 19, so when would he have started and why? Just food for thought. :popcorn
 

GameSetAndMath

The GOAT
Joined
Jul 9, 2013
Messages
21,141
Reactions
3,398
Points
113
It looks to me that you are now claiming it is not an excuse for the loss, but is an excuse for the bagel. :lol6:

The RG breadstick happened in the first set. Of course, Rafa righted the ship and won the next three. But, the point that me and Federberg were trying to make is that Rafa can indeed have stretches of bad play even on clay that is not attributable to injury/tiredness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Federberg

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,542
Reactions
5,607
Points
113
It looks to me that you are now claiming it is not an excuse for the loss, but is an excuse for the bagel. :lol6:

The RG breadstick happened in the first set. Of course, Rafa righted the ship and won the next three. But, the point that me and Federberg were trying to make is that Rafa can indeed have stretches of bad play even on clay that is not attributable to injury/tiredness.
This
 

Federberg

The GOAT
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
15,542
Reactions
5,607
Points
113
As you say, it's a very superficial argument. I'll respect your preference to stay out of the PED discussion, but I'll just ask you to think about this, which I ask Darth and Front and they never have a good response: he's always played like that, looked like this, and was having great wins from 16, a Major at 19, so when would he have started and why? Just food for thought. :popcorn
That’s my fundamental problem with the accusation. I agree with you. Btw it’s also why I’m suspicious of Flo jo but not Usain Bolt. Consistency is a great defence
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,563
Reactions
14,714
Points
113
It looks to me that you are now claiming it is not an excuse for the loss, but is an excuse for the bagel. :lol6:

The RG breadstick happened in the first set. Of course, Rafa righted the ship and won the next three. But, the point that me and Federberg were trying to make is that Rafa can indeed have stretches of bad play even on clay that is not attributable to injury/tiredness.
It's not an "excuse" for a bagel. It's a "context" for a bagel. There's a difference. :D As for the 1-6, I've said he was playing Roger Federer (re: Hamburg...same applies,) who you claim as GOAT, so that would have something to do with it. No one has said that Rafa can't have a bad patch on clay. (See set#2 today.) However, as you say, he more often rights the ship. He's superior on clay to every other player on tour, and he has the focus, patience and belief for clay. But everyone has off-days, even Roger, occasionally on grass. Even when they win in the end, sometimes it's less convincing.
 

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,563
Reactions
14,714
Points
113
That’s my fundamental problem with the accusation. I agree with you. Btw it’s also why I’m suspicious of Flo jo but not Usain Bolt. Consistency is a great defence
I have a friend-of-a-friend in sports medicine. She says it's the spike in level that gives it away. As you say, consistency is a great defense.
 

brokenshoelace

Grand Slam Champion
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
9,380
Reactions
1,334
Points
113
Name me a time Roger pulled out of a slam 3 weeks in advance because of a tummy ache. 2012-2013 happened we can just agree to see things differently. If they silently banned a middleweight like Cilic we know the big boys would never be exposed. Roger doesn't move like a cat anymore either.

No you can't have it both ways. If the drug policy is a joke, then it should also be pretty easy for players to get around the system and not fail drug tests right? Also, while we're at it, let's theorize that Federer suddenly taking the rest of the year off after Wimbledon 2016 was a silent ban. This is ridiculous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie

Moxie

Multiple Major Winner
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
43,563
Reactions
14,714
Points
113
@brokenshoelace : I'm just getting to watch the 2nd half of the match. You're a tough critic of Rafa. What was some of that slop about today?
 

monfed

Major Winner
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
2,112
Reactions
506
Points
113
No you can't have it both ways. If the drug policy is a joke, then it should also be pretty easy for players to get around the system and not fail drug tests right? Also, while we're at it, let's theorize that Federer suddenly taking the rest of the year off after Wimbledon 2016 was a silent ban. This is ridiculous.

Stop slandering Federer without logic or proof. Fed plays the most economical game ever, he's a god given talent, doesn't need PEDs for his shotmaking. Just because dull is a shameless cheater and probably doper doesn't make Fed one too.
 

monfed

Major Winner
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
2,112
Reactions
506
Points
113
I disagree with how he insults everyone who disagrees with him & judges everyone on 1 conversation as well as name-calls. I'm disgusted that he's calling Moxie who is always here to help everyone when she can be & is a highly intelligent person who speaks about many things not just tennis & is well-respected for her attitude towards others & the help she offers as well as what she says. I'm also disgusted he's calling both broken shoelace who write some very good pieces & are well-respected. I'll confess I don't know much about tennis because most of what I learnt I learnt from playing as I don't get a chance to watch much as we have 1 t.v. & Dad hogs the remote but I watched a lot during the '90' & I talk a lot about different things. I think he needs to learn netiquette which is net etiquette or manners on the net. Ignoring him is a good idea as I don't think you can reason with him.

Gotta love how a freaking dull fangirl talks about etiquette when she supports the most morally bankrupt tennis player ever. :lulz2:
 

monfed

Major Winner
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
2,112
Reactions
506
Points
113
Oh, the irony.

What is ironic about suspecting a guy with the most physical game ever, most stamina, muscles popping out of everywhere, taking huge breaks and then coming back as if he never took one, never seems to get tired player taking PEDs?

Maybe if you got your head out of dull's ass for a minute, you'll see what most of the world sees. But too bad you're a part of a cult and there's no cure for you.
 

monfed

Major Winner
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
2,112
Reactions
506
Points
113
Nadal is not a tennis player, he's a runner. Federer is not the one who sweats like a pig and needs to run than play proper tennis to win.
 

Horsa

Equine-loving rhyme-artist
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
4,865
Reactions
1,308
Points
113
Location
Britain
Gotta love how a freaking dull fangirl talks about etiquette when she supports the most morally bankrupt tennis player ever. :lulz2:
You have no manners at all. I don't support Nadal or Federer for your information. I'm a patriotic Brit. I may not be as clued up as everyone else on tennis but that doesn't make me dull. I know more about other things. You do get monomaniacs you know. Lol. Although I'm not as clued up as everyone else on tennis but I find some of your remarks ridiculous. I just laugh at them. You have a big attitude problem & you're very immature. Is name-calling & typing rubbish all you know how to do?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Moxie

monfed

Major Winner
Joined
Apr 28, 2018
Messages
2,112
Reactions
506
Points
113
You have no manners at all. I don't support Nadal or Federer for your information. I'm a patriotic Brit. I may not be as clued up as everyone else on tennis but that doesn't make me dull. I know more about other things. You do get monomaniacs you know. Lol. Although I'm not as clued up as everyone else on tennis but I find some of your remarks ridiculous. I just laugh at them. You have a big attitude problem & you're very immature. Is name-calling & typing rubbish all you know how to do?

What the fuck is a monomaniac?
 

Horsa

Equine-loving rhyme-artist
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
4,865
Reactions
1,308
Points
113
Location
Britain
What the fuck is a monomaniac?
Since you're so clever you should know but as you don't I'll have to define monomaniac. A monomaniac is someone who doesn't know much about 1 subject. It comes from the terms mono meaning 1 & maniac meaning someone who is mad so putting it together it means someone who is mad or doesn't know much if anything about 1 subject.