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Luxilon Borg said:GameSetAndMath said:Luxilon Borg said:GameSetAndMath said:Luxilon Borg said:If Nadal was 100% would this article have ever been written? Do we need a reminder of the H2H?
This is exactly what I am against. Are you claiming that If Nadal was 100%, he would
have surely won on that day. I am not so sure of that. This is really irritating that people
keep saying this again and again. This is demeaning and not giving proper credit to Stan.
Everybody know the H2H. That does not mean everything remains exactly the same.
I am a HUGE Stanimal fan, been following him since day 1 when I saw him practice as a skinny rookie with Fed at the US OPEN.
I give him FULL CREDIT for winning the match because Rafa at 25% is still a ridiculous task.
I am however 100% confident that Rafa wins the 2014 AO if healthy. There is no doubt for me.
But, woulda, coulda, shouldas don't matter..and when they look at the record books it WON'T say, Stan W, Champion, with an asterisk...oh he beat an injured player.
I stand by what I said, this article would be in the recycle bin if Nadal plays even 90%,
For any one who reads what you wrote, it is clear that you are placing an asterisk
even though you are saying there is no asterisk. Actually, you made it worse now.
You are saying even a 90% Nadal would have beat Stan that day.
There is absolutely no guarantee that Rafa would have won that day if he was
100% fit. After all did you forget that, Stan was leading by a set and a break before
Rafa started holding his back.
Nobody knows and nobody can claim to predict correctly what would have happened
if Rafa was 100% that day. If we have to purely go by prior H2H, we don't even have
to play matches out right.
Surely, the article would not have been written if Stan had lost. That is not the
same as saying the article would not have been written if Nadal was 100%. By saying
so, you are claiming that Rafa would have definitely won if he was 100%.
We already had so many threads to discuss all these old stuff, "injury",
"asterisk" etc. I thought we can look into the tactics of what works and does
not work against Nadal and why. But, the thread is completely derailed.
p.s. Broken, you wanted examples of people claiming Rafa would have won.
Here you go. LB is an example. If I peer through all those old thread, I will
find many more, but I have better things to do.
I place no asterik. However it is hard not to remember it. I remember that Lendl beat Edberg when Stefan bowed out with back injury mid match. I remember Fed beating Nadal in that 5 setter when Rafa hurt his knee in the 4th. Etc.
Perhaps you are unaware that Nadal said he felt pain in the back PRIOR to the match???
Sorry if you feel the thread is derailed. There have been two players with any decent success against Nadal. Joker and Fed. Everyone can study all the tactics they want, when he is fit he is unbeatable. So is Joker so that is why when they play at their best it is basically a test of wills.
Stan played 3 consecutive brutal 5 setters against Joker, and finally won the last. How many SETS had Stan won from Nadal? Tactics Shmactics.
No, I am not asking you to forget it. Yes, I am aware of all kinds of reports which places
his injury at different points in the timeline, some going all the way back to Dinosarus period.
When there is an injury, it is OK to say that the injury is a factor in the match. It is not
OK to say that barring the injury Rafa would have certainly won as you claimed categorically.
Kieran is also doing the same thing, but hiding behind wordings such as "the way things
panned out". The reason is clear. Nobody knows what would have happened between
a 100% Nadal and Stan on that day. Nadal could have won. Stan could also have won.
You might say, look there is a 12-0 h2h record.
Stan had also lost to Novak about 14 times in a row. We all know that he beat Novak
fair and square. Now, suppose Novak had an injury on that day and Stan had won.
You would then say, Stan would never win against Novak if Novak is 100%. But Stan
proved that was not the case.
You got to admit that a similar thing could have happened in the finals also.
For all you know, Stan might have beaten a 100% Nadal on that day.