GRASS SEASON - General Discussion

[DarthFed]

I guess it's your memory against mine, and maybe you said it when we were on different boards, but you are the one who is still saying that Roger played crap in that match, so I have a larger leg to stand on, as to how you represent that match. You can say it's a classic, (and I don't remember your ever saying that before,) but if you keep saying Roger played "abysmally," you've got your fingers crossed behind your back.

As far as my objectivity, I have said that Roger started slowly. I've also said that I watched it from the edge of my seat like everyone else did, on the day. There were many, many amazing points, between them. It was a nail-biter. Won at the last minute, in the gloaming, by Nadal. How would you like me to be more objective?

I said it on multiple boards. Question for you. Do you think the best grass player of all time can play well below his normal standard and still be competitive? I'm talking crap for his standards. Another way to look at the match; if he hadn't played a great third set TB we'd be talking a straight set route. So in the first 3 sets we are talking a pretty pathetic performance aside from the TB. And in the 4th set if that backhand went long we'd again be talking a really ugly performance for Roger in a fairly uneventful and straightforward 4 setter. So again we are really talking Roger playing well for a couple brief moments in the TB's and that doesn't even mention a pretty piss poor 5th set. Add it up and it was a tight and dramatic match but Roger at a high level on grass probably doesn't have to worry about anyone in history aside from Sampras.

 

[Carol]

Meanwhile Federer "resting" in Ibiza...

 

[Moxie]

I said it on multiple boards. Question for you. Do you think the best grass player of all time can play well below his normal standard and still be competitive? I'm talking crap for his standards. Another way to look at the match; if he hadn't played a great third set TB we'd be talking a straight set route. So in the first 3 sets we are talking a pretty pathetic performance aside from the TB. And in the 4th set if that backhand went long we'd again be talking a really ugly performance for Roger in a fairly uneventful and straightforward 4 setter. So again we are really talking Roger playing well for a couple brief moments in the TB's and that doesn't even mention a pretty piss poor 5th set. Add it up and it was a tight and dramatic match but Roger at a high level on grass probably doesn't have to worry about anyone in history aside from Sampras.

I have no problem calling Roger the best grass player, especially as he recently passed Pete. I do have a problem with how you couch the match, especially as you haven't seen it in 10 years. You're going on match stats, not points as they were played. Yes, I think he could play well below his best on grass and still be competitive. However, I don't think he played "well" below his best on that day. He was competitive thoughout the match. You make it like he just snuck out a couple of TBs and that's the only reason it went 4. It was a long, point-to-point match. You just don't believe that, on paper, he should have lost that match, otherwise, he must have played poorly. I'm saying he played great the whole tournament, and a good bit of the year. He lost because his opponent played better and it was a tight match. I don't believe it was just a bad day, either. It may have been partly psychological. But he didn't just play poor "by his standards." He was out-played, for whatever reasons, and it wasn't just him playing poorly or having mono or whatever. Rafa had been close to beating him the year prior, and was the one to put the pressure on in 2008.

 

[Moxie]

Meanwhile Federer "resting" in Ibiza...

Not so bad to be an "island boy" when you want the R&R, eh, @DarthFed? Ibiza is a very family-friendly destination, despite its reputation.

 

[10isfan]

Of course, it’s equally dark on both sides of the net It’s equally windy, too, but players can’t stop a match because of wind. They can stop because they can’t see well. Not everyone’s eyes handle light and darkness the same way. It’s possible that Fed can’t see as well as Nadal near sunset. It’s Fed’s fault for not stopping the match. I’m not blaming anyone else.

 

[Moxie]

Of course, it’s equally dark on both sides of the net It’s equally windy, too, but players can’t stop a match because of wind. They can stop because they can’t see well. Not everyone’s eyes handle light and darkness the same way. It’s possible that Fed can’t see as well as Nadal near sunset. It’s Fed’s fault for not stopping the match. I’m not blaming anyone else.

One thing I can't stand is when a player starts to argue with the chair about how dark it is, all the while it's getting darker and darker. Sometimes it seems evident stalling. Fed didn't do this. Remember the 2011 RG SF, though, when it was Roger who benefitted from the failing light and playing on. It was Novak who felt he couldn't see the ball well, but they finished that night, and Fed won.

According to Wertheim's book, at 6-5 in the 5th, the players were notified there wasn't enough light to use Hawkeye reliably. You could argue that this might be a measure of when to stop. They'd have played the next game, but it would have finished at 6-6. At 7-7, the organizers decided they would allow only 2 more games. Of this, they didn't notify the players, though Wertheim contends they would have intuited it. Both games were relatively long and competitive, IIRC. When Nadal broke, they had to play the next game. That's how it went down. We'll never know what would have happened if they'd have come back the next day to finish.

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Both RG and Wimbledon have to come out of their tradition and install lights in all courts for use as needed. I know they are proud that their events are on natural surfaces and played in natural conditions. But, if they can allow roof to break their purity, why not use lights in the late evening hours as needed. It is much less of an assault on the purity.

 

[Moxie]

Both RG and Wimbledon has to come out of their tradition and install lights in all courts for use as needed. I know they are proud that their events are on natural surfaces and played in natural conditions. But, if they can allow roof to break their purity, why not use lights in the late evening hours as needed. It is much less of an assault on the purity.

This is good news. It's not like electric light hasn't been available for something over 100 years. Especially at Wimbledon, where they have weather challenges, respect the 11pm curfew and the middle Sunday. Something had to give, right?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

This is good news. It's not like electric light hasn't been available for something over 100 years. Especially at Wimbledon, where they have weather challenges, respect the 11pm curfew and the middle Sunday. Something had to give, right?

I am not reporting any news. I am just saying out loud my wishful thinking. Seriously why are they so prude about this?

 

[Moxie]

I am not reporting any news. I am just saying out loud my wishful thinking. Seriously why are they so prude about this?

Sadly, I missed the critical "to" in your above. I did think you were reporting news. So, anyway, I stand by my above comment. I have hopes for the improvements that will come with the renovation of RG...could they possibly update without lights? As to Wimbledon, it has to be the cheapest improvement available to them.

 

[Busted]

"Grass Season" seems like a misnomer. It should be more like Grass Month. Can we just fast-forward past Roland Garros?

 

[Busted]

He needs to get to 10 to be where he should already be. If he doesn't win this year then he's only at 8 of last 16 Wimbledon's. Even with the garbage change in surface he clearly should've done better. Two awful finals losses and a couple other head scratchers.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think Roger SHOULD have lost those 2 finals to a prime Djokovic. The 2015 final - he peaked a round to soon. He put a beat down on poor old Andy Murray and then made too many errors in the final - what was it, 64 or 65 in 4 sets? The 2014 final though? The year of the racket change. He choked that one by coughing up one of his inexplicable crappy service games after getting back in it the match 3-5 down in the 4th. So to me - well done Nole for not choking it away in 2014.

The loss to Raonic in 2016? Well, come on...he shouldn't even have been playing on his bum knee and was lucky to get past Cilic. If he'd been healthy I think he'd have won that match and beaten Murray in the final.

The loss to Jo-Willie in 2011? He got too passive and got Jo-Willied. I remember watching that match and wonder if Roger forgot in the middle of the match that it was best of 5 not best of 3.

The Stakhovsky loss in 2013? The year of the bad back and he shouldn't have played then either.

The Berdych loss in 2010...back when Berdych occasionally got lucky against Roger? That's another Wimbledon where it felt to me like Roger was still kicking himself for blowing opportunities at the French. Only this time it was Soderling instead of Nadal.

The Nadal loss in 2008? Struggling with mono and he had his head firmly up his ass and stubbornly played the wrong way for 2 sets? He deserved to lose that one, too, so congrats to Nadal on getting in Roger's head early...and often...

 

[Busted]

Meanwhile Federer "resting" in Ibiza...

Wasn't Nadal just in Ibiza before going to Monte Carlo? I guess Roger thought it would be safe to go there and not have to make excuses for why he can't go fishing since Nadal ain't gonna miss clay season.... :lulz2:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Noteworthy players in Stuttgart field, besides TMF (3 youngsters and 3 oldsters)

1. Nick Kyrgios
2. Chung
3. Shapo
4. Milos
5. Kohly
6. Lopez


Neither Sasha, nor Them signed up for Stuttgart this year.

 

[mrzz]

nor Them signed up

Them din't signep up? Them all? Wow! Talk about an eroded field thien!.

 

[isabelle]

Murray pulled out of 'sHertogenbosh, not ready to play yet, he'll say later if he's able to play Queen's club. very sad for him

 

[Moxie]

Murray pulled out of 'sHertogenbosh, not ready to play yet, he'll say later if he's able to play Queen's club. very sad for him

That is unfortunate.

 

[10isfan]

I thought Chung was going to be out rest of the year for his ankle injury. Is that list fairly current?

 

[GameSetAndMath]

I thought Chung was going to be out rest of the year for his ankle injury. Is that list fairly current?

People need to sign up six weeks before. He did sign up. But, he can always withdraw if he has issues. He has not withdrawn so far.

 

[isabelle]

I thought Chung was going to be out rest of the year for his ankle injury. Is that list fairly current?

didn't he undergo a surgery ???