GRASS SEASON - General Discussion

[Moxie]

Please, I think it's easy to see the difference in circumstances between the matchup in 2011 vs. 2012-2014. Nole obviously wasn't playing as well those years and Rafa had beaten Nole a bunch of times to reverse the trend. Nole losing to Roger there was a matchup thing, it's not for sure he'd have beaten Nadal in the final but given how badly he had beaten him that year before and after that final...he probably would've gotten the job done. Nole had a marathon with Murray the day before the Rome final and that was a routine win, he would've been fine if the match with Roger went the next day. That win by Roger was both great and costly. I've always said that.

 

[Moxie]

Please, I think it's easy to see the difference in circumstances between the matchup in 2011 vs. 2012-2014. Nole obviously wasn't playing as well those years and Rafa had beaten Nole a bunch of times to reverse the trend. Nole losing to Roger there was a matchup thing, it's not for sure he'd have beaten Nadal in the final but given how badly he had beaten him that year before and after that final...he probably would've gotten the job done. Nole had a marathon with Murray the day before the Rome final and that was a routine win, he would've been fine if the match with Roger went the next day. That win by Roger was both great and costly. I've always said that.

Oh, I remember the cries from the likes of you and other Feddies at the time for Roger to tank that SF. It was really the first time that I realized how much you (all) hated Nadal. That you would see Roger out of a Major just to see Rafa lose. At the time, I was incredibly grateful to Roger, I won't lie. But, given subsequent performances, I'm less convinced that Novak would have beaten Rafa in that final. It's not correct to say that '12-'14 Novak was notably lesser. As I pointed out, Novak and Roger would have had to play a full set on the Sat. I don't think you can discount that and I don't care how Novak had performed in the Rome prior. Rafa had upped his level in the QF and SF, so I'm not convinced Novak would have overcome that trial. It's still a parallel universe. Do you want to be monfed? Personally, I wish they had played that final, now, because I think Rafa would have won, and he'd have gone on to beat Djokovic in the subsequent Wimbledon, and even possibly the USO, with Djokovic's injury issues.

See how that works?

 

[Moxie]

Imagine if somebody had taken out Nadull at Wim 08 before the final.... Yea that's exactly what happened to Nadull at RG 11 when Fed took out peakest of peak fakervic OUT OF NOWHERE. It is sickening beyond belief. I still to this day haven't fully come to terms with Frauderer's DUMBASS decision of taking out faker.

Now you're just whining and trying to rewrite the history of tennis for the last 10 years. Sports are played in real-time. Not on the Planet Monfed. Would you have preferred that Federer had tanked it?

 

[monfed]

Now you're just whining and trying to rewrite the history of tennis for the last 10 years. Sports are played in real-time. Not on the Planet Monfed.

yes you evil dull worshipper, we're all whiners and you're the great goddess of the nadal's golden temple of doom. Please have some paella -

 

[Moxie]

You always divert when you're losing the conversation. But thanks for the paella.

 

[DarthFed]

Oh, I remember the cries from the likes of you and other Feddies at the time for Roger to tank that SF. It was really the first time that I realized how much you (all) hated Nadal. That you would see Roger out of a Major just to see Rafa lose. At the time, I was incredibly grateful to Roger, I won't lie. But, given subsequent performances, I'm less convinced that Novak would have beaten Rafa in that final. It's not correct to say that '12-'14 Novak was notably lesser. As I pointed out, Novak and Roger would have had to play a full set on the Sat. I don't think you can discount that and I don't care how Novak had performed in the Rome prior. Rafa had upped his level in the QF and SF, so I'm not convinced Novak would have overcome that trial. It's still a parallel universe. Do you want to be monfed? Personally, I wish they had played that final, now, because I think Rafa would have won, and he'd have gone on to beat Djokovic in the subsequent Wimbledon.

See how that works?

Well you are the ultimate homer aside from Kieran. If we asked BS this question I think you'd get a totally different answer. And we are just saying if Roger had lost that match, even if it did go to the next day...I think Nole would've won and pretty easily. That Rome final was something like 15 hours after he got past Murray, I think you're really reaching if you think an extra set Saturday would've mattered. Rafa was spooked that year, he went 5 with Isner FFS and even Roger caused small problems at one of the low points of his career, especially against Nadal. And it is absolutely correct to say Novak was not at the same level in 2012-2014. It'd be like me saying Nadal was at the same level in 2014 as he was in 2013.

 

[monfed]

Now you're just whining and trying to rewrite the history of tennis for the last 10 years. Sports are played in real-time. Not on the Planet Monfed. Would you have preferred that Federer had tanked it?

Preferred? Preferred? PREFERRED? I would take a bullet for Fed to tank that match.

 

[Moxie]

Well you are the ultimate homer aside from Kieran. If we asked BS this question I think you'd get a totally different answer. And we are just saying if Roger had lost that match, even if it did go to the next day...I think Nole would've won and pretty easily. That Rome final was something like 15 hours after he got past Murray, I think you're really reaching if you think an extra set Saturday would've mattered. Rafa was spooked that year, he went 5 with Isner FFS and even Roger caused small problems at one of the low points of his career, especially against Nadal. And it is absolutely correct to say Novak was not at the same level in 2012-2014. It'd be like me saying Nadal was at the same level in 2014 as he was in 2013.

I don't mind that you have your opinion about how that match might have gone, but I've asked you to consider some of the variables. I've offered why I think it wasn't so sure that Novak would have won it. You've offered why you think he would have. From there, we're dead in the water, as it was a match that was never played.

 

[monfed]

Heck I'm so sure that RG 11 loss would've been so devastating for dull that he would've lost RG 13 and possibly 14. RG 12 his level was very high so I can't say for sure if faker would've beaten him there but the way I see it, Nadal would've not played at that high level in 2012 in the FIRST PLACE had he lost RG 11.

dull's career would've spiraled out of control imo had he lost RG 11 to fakervic. The entire tennis landscape would've been different. That is how IMPORTANT that match was. What an escape man. Oh that lucker angers me so much , can't even tell you.

Ok I'll stop now, sorry but damn just shoot me.

 

[DarthFed]

Preferred? Preferred? PREFERRED? I would take a bullet for Fed to tank that match.

LOL, well I wouldn't go that far. That win over Djoker is still legendary in my book even if it raised Nadal's chances in that final from 30% to 99%

 

[monfed]

LOL, well I wouldn't go that far. That win over Djoker is still legendary in my book even if it raised Nadal's chances in that final from 30% to 99%

I would because think about it. Had fakervic beaten Nadull at RG 11, he would've been firmly implanted in his psyche and he would've known HOW to beat Nadal at RG. He would've ALWAYS had that mental one upmanship over Nadal so he would've closed out RG 13 and may have beaten in him RG 14 too.

With RG 11 to Novak, Nadal ends with 6- 7, MAX 8 RGs. His slam chase is KAPUT, gone poof, all over for dull

 

[DarthFed]

I don't mind that you have your opinion about how that match might have gone, but I've asked you to consider some of the variables. I've offered why I think it wasn't so sure that Novak would have won it. You've offered why you think he would have. From there, we're dead in the water, as it was a match that was never played.

It's all good, and I have considered the variables. Sometimes players get lucky with upsets. It has happened to them all, 2011 RG for Rafa and 2009 RG with Roger. Note that I'm not comparing those but they are the most noteworthy "thank you card" type situations I can remember.

 

[DarthFed]

I would because think about it. Had fakervic beaten Nadull at RG 11, he would've been firmly implanted in his psyche and he would've known HOW to beat Nadal at RG. He would've ALWAYS had that mental one upmanship over Nadal so he would've closed out RG 13 and may have beaten in him RG 14 too.

With RG 11 to Novak, Nadal ends with 6- 7, MAX 8 RGs. His slam chase is KAPUT, gone poof, all over for dull

I think Rafa would have turned it around in the subsequent years regardless. I also feel that he took a special batch of wheaties in 2012 to help his cause.

And yes there is the small chance that Nadal would've beaten Djoker and 2011 would've looked a lot different.

 

[Chris Koziarz]

if it's 36% chance, I won't argue. But the one person Roger won't have to play is his best self. Even if he's not A+, he can still take on the field, so it's down to how he's feeling it.

I think Federer screwed himself playing both Stuttgart and Halle. This could be another Montreal 2017 situation where Federer will lose a slam in the hunt to become #1. It's madness.

Hey monfed, what;s wrong with you? Compare your post to Moxie's post above I'm also quoting for your convenience: are you Roger's fan, or is she? From these quotes, it looks like latter... Cheer up and have a faith in your man! At the moment, Moxie has more faith than u have, which is strange, because "on paper" she should be wishing that your "fed screwed up" scenario comes true and "dull" surpasses screwed up fed in GS count...

 

[Moxie]

Heck I'm so sure that RG 11 loss would've been so devastating for dull that he would've lost RG 13 and possibly 14. RG 12 his level was very high so I can't say for sure if faker would've beaten him there but the way I see it, Nadal would've not played at that high level in 2012 in the FIRST PLACE had he lost RG 11.

dull's career would've spiraled out of control imo had he lost RG 11 to fakervic. The entire tennis landscape would've been different. That is how IMPORTANT that match was. What an escape man. Oh that lucker angers me so much , can't even tell you.

Ok I'll stop now, sorry but damn just shoot me.

I get it. You're angry. Your favorite player, the immensely talented but under-appreciated and luckless tennis genius has had such a rough time of it. If only the world, and other players, had understood, they'd have begged off beating him and just let him win, as he always should have. Never mind sports. You have a narrative to drive! And that evil Clay demon Nadal swept in to mess things up. The world is so unfair to you and Roger. Let me offer you a paper bag to hyperventilate into. I'd happily shoot you, if it would bring you to some semblance of reality. :hunting:

 

[monfed]

Hey monfed, what;s wrong with you? Compare your post to Moxie's post above I'm also quoting for your convenience: are you Roger's fan, or is she? From these quotes, it looks like latter... Cheer up and have a faith in your man! At the moment, Moxie has more faith than u have, which is strange, because "on paper" she should be wishing that your "fed screwed up" scenario comes true and "dull" surpasses screwed up fed in GS count...

*fingers crossed *

 

[Moxie]

Hey monfed, what;s wrong with you? Compare your post to Moxie's post above I'm also quoting for your convenience: are you Roger's fan, or is she? From these quotes, it looks like latter... Cheer up and have a faith in your man! At the moment, Moxie has more faith than u have, which is strange, because "on paper" she should be wishing that your "fed screwed up" scenario comes true and "dull" surpasses screwed up fed in GS count...

LOL, Chris. It's funny that it's me trying to talk all the Fed fans off the ledge. Exactly: have faith in your man. I never doubt Rafa. In fact, I think he's got a great shot at Wimbledon this year.

 

[DarthFed]

I have faith in Fed, he just has to play a lot better than Halle. Next 8 months are the most important of his career. Embrace destiny or be destroyed by it, simple as that. 20 may end up being nothing.

 

[Moxie]

It's all good, and I have considered the variables. Sometimes players get lucky with upsets. It has happened to them all, 2011 RG for Rafa and 2009 RG with Roger. Note that I'm not comparing those but they are the most noteworthy "thank you card" type situations I can remember.

No, I think that's fair. We can't pretend they didn't escape a potential bullet there, each. That's the way it shook out. Monfed has a propensity that reminds me of Cali for reinventing the world. "If it had gone this way or that way....blah, blah." Well, it didn't. We're always going to argue over certain matches and various things, but we can't spend a lot of time remaking the draws and massaging over "what-ifs." That way madness lies.

 

[Moxie]

LOL, well I wouldn't go that far. That win over Djoker is still legendary in my book even if it raised Nadal's chances in that final from 30% to 99%

He stopped a long winning streak by Djokovic.