Gerry Weber Open (Halle) 9-15 June 2014

[DarthFed]

Was thinking about this yesterday and I think it makes a lot of sense. Federer has played on the faster grass of Halle for years more than Nadal so it's prepared him better for the first week of Wimbledon when the grass is fresher and a lot faster. Besides last year he's never bombed out in the first week. Nadal playing Queens most of his time on tour means he's really only been getting grass prep for the kind of grass in the 2nd week of Wimbledon and hence no real preparation for the bombs being hurled towards him in week 1.

Except that since he started playing Halle, Rafa has been rubbish at Wimbo.

I think he should pay the extra taxes and go back to playing Queens...

He never did well there either except for 1 year. Queens is similar to Halle I think, maybe a little slower but still very fast and slick conditions. Rafa's problem is and always was the surface, 1st week of Wimbledon he is naturally playing nobodies so he was able to survive the struggles most of the time.

 

[Front242]

Murray made the semis of RG, far and away his worst surface. He'll be fine at Wimbledon, especially with best of 5.

 

[Kieran]

I think going into the tournament, without draws, the favorites are:

1. Djokovic
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Federer
5. Berdych
6. Raonic
7. maybe Tsonga? Gulbis?

Or something like that. If all make the second week and ignoring match-ups, I think Rafa jumps to the favorite. If Andy is playing well he becomes #2.

I would hold fire on Rafa until he proves himself again. If he gets to the second week, he's a momentum kinda man, he may well sweep all before him. He's much more vulnerable against a nobody with nothing to lose, before he finds his game, than he is against a fellow great, in the second week.

But he's become an unknown quantity again, nobody can make a safe prediction that he's a favourite to win until he proves himself.

Murray is not quite on the pace, but could find it at Wimbledon, and Nole maybe distracted by marriage, and still in the doldrums after the FO. Roger will most likely do well, but for the 28th slam in a row, he's relying on injury or another player taking care of Nadal...

 

[Front242]

^ Well if he wins and Nadal loses, it's not his fault Nadal played like donkey c**k

 

[the AntiPusher]

^ Well if he wins and Nadal loses, it's not his fault Nadal played like donkey c**k

Would you, could you in a box with a Fox , could you try green eggs and Rafa , Front I am:lolz:

 

[DarthFed]

Just like Rafa relies on the grass to wear down and play drastically slower. Only reason Rafa has won Wimbledon...but I bet Rafa and his uncle won't thank the directors for changing it to suit his game. On the flip side I doubt Roger is stuck on 7 Wimbledons if the grass suited his game.

 

[Kieran]

Just like Rafa relies on the grass to wear down and play drastically slower. Only reason Rafa has won Wimbledon...but I bet Rafa and his uncle won't thank the directors for changing it to suit his game. On the flip side I doubt Roger is stuck on 7 Wimbledons if the grass suited his game.

Roger's not "stuck on 7 Wimbledons": 7 is the record, and he's done very well to get it. The grass obviously suits his game very well.

As for the grass wearing down to help Rafa, they used to say exactly the same thing about Borg...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Just like Rafa relies on the grass to wear down and play drastically slower. Only reason Rafa has won Wimbledon...but I bet Rafa and his uncle won't thank the directors for changing it to suit his game. On the flip side I doubt Roger is stuck on 7 Wimbledons if the grass suited his game.

The theory that Roger would have more Wimbledons on faster grass really isn't that sure fire, simply because he won most Wimbledons he participated in already (so it's not a knock on him). Some of the years in which he lost he was either playing A) To poorly to win it on any kind of surface (2010, 2013), B) Against an opponent that would have also benefited from faster grass (Tsonga), and C) against someone who owns him, and according to you, Roger lost to due to "mental issues."

 

[Front242]

Well he sure lost Wimbledon 2008 set 2 due to mental issues. Up 4-1. He's clearly got a mental block against Nadal and he's blown huge leads tons of times and not because of amazing play from Nadal either.

 

[Kieran]

Well he sure lost Wimbledon 2008 set 2 due to mental issues. Up 4-1. He's clearly got a mental block against Nadal and he's blown huge leads tons of times and not because of amazing play from Nadal either.

4-1 isn't a "huge lead" when it involves only one break of serve....

 

[DarthFed]

Rafa wouldn't have found it so easy to win Wimbledon 2008 on the old grass, that's if he would have even made the final.

 

[DarthFed]

Just like Rafa relies on the grass to wear down and play drastically slower. Only reason Rafa has won Wimbledon...but I bet Rafa and his uncle won't thank the directors for changing it to suit his game. On the flip side I doubt Roger is stuck on 7 Wimbledons if the grass suited his game.

Roger's not "stuck on 7 Wimbledons": 7 is the record, and he's done very well to get it. The grass obviously suits his game very well.

As for the grass wearing down to help Rafa, they used to say exactly the same thing about Borg...

7 is the record, and whose to say he couldn't/shouldn't have won more?

 

[Kieran]

Rafa wouldn't have found it so easy to win Wimbledon 2008 on the old grass, that's if he would have even made the final.

He didn't play it on the old grass, but bear in mind: Borg won Wimbo five times on the old grass...

 

[brokenshoelace]

Just like Rafa relies on the grass to wear down and play drastically slower. Only reason Rafa has won Wimbledon...but I bet Rafa and his uncle won't thank the directors for changing it to suit his game. On the flip side I doubt Roger is stuck on 7 Wimbledons if the grass suited his game.

Roger's not "stuck on 7 Wimbledons": 7 is the record, and he's done very well to get it. The grass obviously suits his game very well.

As for the grass wearing down to help Rafa, they used to say exactly the same thing about Borg...

7 is the record, and whose to say he couldn't/shouldn't have won more?

He couldn't have won more because he didn't win more. He shouldn't have won more because the one year he got close to winning but lost, he was vastly outplayed and was lucky to make it to 5. Hell, you could argue he could have had LESS if Nadal hadn't blown it the previous year. This cuts both ways.

Also, please, just because slower grass suited Roger's main rival and he was able to take away from him ONE Wimbledon trophy, doesn't mean it didn't suit Roger a lot because in his prime, he was by far the best baseliner int he world and his game worked PERFECTLY on slower grass. The blend of movement, point construction, forehand, attacking the net and efficient serving worked perfectly on slower grass. Roger would probably not have played that way on faster grass (as evidenced by 2003 in which he won Wimbledon by pure serve and volley), and there is no way in hell you can claim with any degree of certainty that faster grass would have won him more than 7 titles. Even if he didn't play pure serve and volley.

You're better than this nonsense.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Well he sure lost Wimbledon 2008 set 2 due to mental issues. Up 4-1. He's clearly got a mental block against Nadal and he's blown huge leads tons of times and not because of amazing play from Nadal either.

They played 3 times at Wimbledon. Here's how it went:

2006: Nadal serves for the second set to tie it, chokes, loses the set in a tie-break. Loses the match in 4.

2007: Nadal is up by a double break in the 4th with all the momentum after generally outplaying Roger from behind the baseline for much of the match. Nadal injures his knee, calls a medical timeout up 4-0 in the 4th. Blows 4 break point opportunities in two different games in the 5th set. Loses. Federer's reaction: "I got lucky." You can call it good sportsmanship by Roger, but there was an element of truth in his statement.

2008: Nadal is up two sets, 3-3 in the third, and has 0-40 on Federer's serve. Blows 3 break points. Loses the set. In the 4th set, he has two match points in the tie-break, one on his own serve. Doesn't convert. Wins the match anyway.

So please, a little objectivity, fact checking, and remind yourself that Roger has beaten Rafa more than Rafa has beaten him at Wimbledon, when it could have easily been the other way around.

 

[Front242]

Well done, Roger. H2H looks better now. Should be a good final against Falla.

 

[DarthFed]

Well that's a first, a player didn't realize he won the match, and it happens to be Roger!!

 

[brokenshoelace]

Also, this is very important: Wimbledon grass got slowed down in 2002. That was, 14 years ago. Get the hell over it already.

 

[Front242]

Well he sure lost Wimbledon 2008 set 2 due to mental issues. Up 4-1. He's clearly got a mental block against Nadal and he's blown huge leads tons of times and not because of amazing play from Nadal either.

They played 3 times at Wimbledon. Here's how it went:

2006: Nadal serves for the second set to tie it, chokes, loses the set in a tie-break. Loses the match in 4.
2007: Nadal is up by a double break in the 4th with all the momentum after generally outplaying Roger from behind the baseline for much of the set. Nadal injures his knee, calls a medical timeout up 4-0 in the 4th. Blows 4 break point opportunities in two different game in the 5th set. Loses. Federer's reaction: "I got lucky." You can call it good sportsmanship by Roger, but there was an element of truth in his statement.
2008: Nadal is up two sets, 3-3 in the third, and has 0-40 on Federer's serve. Blows 3 break points. Loses the set. In the 4th set, he has two match points in the tie-break, one on his own serve. Doesn't convert. Wins the match anyway.

So please, a little objectivity, fact checking, and remind yourself that Roger has beaten Rafa more than Rafa has beaten him at Wimbledon, when it could have easily been the other way around.

Who said I was talking mental block and blowing leads on grass? He's done it on every surface and not 'cos of great play from Nadal either. I was actually watching this shambles there.

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUqMndV8YLc&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

 

[Kieran]

Why has he got a mental block against Rafa, Front?