General Doping/PEDs Discussion

[MargaretMcAleer]

So it's your opinion too. This outcome is not transparent - and will haunt the game,

BTW this is not the first time that a settlement between a player and WADA using the code article 10.8.2 Teymuraz Gabashvilli in November 2021
I have stated the facts from WADA and their settlement, people can chose to agree or disagree,btw why are the members of Sinners team are not suspended? I am going to watch a tennis match with one of my rising young favorite players Fonseca

 

[Kieran]

Again that is your opinion,
BTW this is not the first time that a settlement between a player and WADA using the code article 10.8.2 Teymuraz Gabashvilli in November 2021
I have stated the facts from WADA and their settlement, people can chose to agree or disagree. I am going to watch a tennis match with one of my rising young favorite players Fonseca

Listen, it’s not just my opinion, it’s everybody’s opinion, including yours, that “in future is there has to be more Transparency full stop in any case.”

The issue now isn’t his guilt in having the substance in his body, or whether he cheated, it’s whether elite players get preferential treatment. I don’t, by the way, think that when others bring Halep into the discussion to argue this, that it’s apt: Halep is an elite player and her case was more complex because the dosage they were examining suggested she cheated, and not that she was a blameless victim of harmless contamination. But you know yourself, most people aren’t going to look for nuance - except when they themselves been done for beating up women…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

Listen, it’s not just my opinion, it’s everybody’s opinion, including yours, that “in future is there has to be more Transparency full stop in any case.”

The issue now isn’t his guilt in having the substance in his body, or whether he cheated, it’s whether elite players get preferential treatment. I don’t, by the way, think that when others bring Halep into the discussion to argue this, that it’s apt: Halep is an elite player and her case was more complex because the dosage they were examining suggested she cheated, and not that she was a blameless victim of harmless contamination. But you know yourself, most people aren’t going to look for nuance - except when they themselves been done for beating up women…

Well what do you think Sinner should have been ban for then?
It is not our fault that the powers that be havent been transparent? like they should
Sinner went through the correct channels in the 10 day period that all players have to state what happened? he was in a better position money wise to hire good lawyers, so I dismiss 'preferential treatment',
Halep had blood defecncies in her athletic passport as an added case? more complexed

 

[Kieran]

Well what do you think Sinner should have been ban for then?
It is not our fault that the powers that be havent been transparent? like they should
Sinner went through the correct channels in the 10 day period that all players have to state what happened? he was in a better position money wise to hire good lawyers, so I dismiss 'preferential treatment',
Halep had blood defecncies in her athletic passport as an added case? more complexed

He failed a dope test. It’s a ban. He’s ultimately responsible for what goes in his body. The fact that an illegal drug was found is why he’s being banned, not how it got there.

The preferential treatment allegation will come when we wonder if every player gets to negotiate the timing and length of the ban. There should never have been any sort of negotiation, and since there was, there should have been - as you say - transparency. I find it problematical that with this ban, it’s been agreed in advance that it shouldn’t upset his chances at the slams…

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

He failed a dope test. It’s a ban. He’s ultimately responsible for what goes in his body. The fact that an illegal drug was found is why he’s being banned, not how it got there.

The preferential treatment allegation will come when we wonder if every player gets to negotiate the timing and length of the ban. There should never have been any sort of negotiation, and since there was, there should have been - as you say - transparency. I find it problematical that with this ban, it’s been agreed in advance that it shouldn’t upset his chances at the slams…

WADA accepted that Sinner did not intend to cheat and that his exposure to clostebol did not provide any performance enchancing benefit and took place without his knowledge as the result of negligence of members of his entourage

 

[Moxie]

Its gonna be interesting to see if Sinner is gonna be categorized as a drug cheat like Pova and Halep or given a pass because it was an "honest" mistake.

I think around here, and in the tennis sphere generally, a lot of people seem to be giving the benefit of the doubt, that it's a small amount of drug, and a plausible story, and everyone likes Sinner. Some minority thinks that if you failed a drug test, you're doping, and you'll never win them back. However, what everyone seems to agree on is that the system is massively unfair. If you have the money to afford the best lawyers, things will go much better for you. Tennis cannot seem to handle its doping issues at all well.

 

[El Dude]

I think around here, and in the tennis sphere generally, a lot of people seem to be giving the benefit of the doubt, that it's a small amount of drug, and a plausible story, and everyone likes Sinner. Some minority thinks that if you failed a drug test, you're doping, and you'll never win them back. However, what everyone seems to agree on is that the system is massively unfair. If you have the money to afford the best lawyers, things will go much better for you. Tennis cannot seem to handle its doping issues at all well.

What irks me is that the implication among the punitive types seems to be that Sinner's punishment should be brought closer to Joe Schmo. Why not the other way?

And don't the specifics matter? Is any failed test equally bad? I don't get it...but then again, I'm not a punitive type!

 

[MargaretMcAleer]

I think around here, and in the tennis sphere generally, a lot of people seem to be giving the benefit of the doubt, that it's a small amount of drug, and a plausible story, and everyone likes Sinner. Some minority thinks that if you failed a drug test, you're doping, and you'll never win them back. However, what everyone seems to agree on is that the system is massively unfair. If you have the money to afford the best lawyers, things will go much better for you. Tennis cannot seem to handle its doping issues at all well.

Please look at what WADA has said? also this is not the first case where WADA has settled in its 10.8;2 provision
I suggest you read what WADA has said on this case, I can repost it if you need
Sinner has been cleared of Doping though he has to bear negligence for his team, which is fair enough, if they thought he was a Drug Cheat, he would be banned for a couple of years and rightly so. This case in question was about Sinner having to bear negligence which is fair enough.
That said maybe his team should also be under scrutiny for having a banned spray in their possession?

 

[Moxie]

What irks me is that the implication among the punitive types seems to be that Sinner's punishment should be brought closer to Joe Schmo. Why not the other way?

And don't the specifics matter? Is any failed test equally bad? I don't get it...but then again, I'm not a punitive type!

Yeah, I know...what about that "Giovanni Schmo" in Italy who got done with the same stuff in the same circumstances, only he's a nobody and no one buys the story and he gets a 4 year ban?? (Which, at his ranking may as well be a lifetime ban.) Plus, are all PEDs equal?

 

[the AntiPusher]

Yeah, I know...what about that "Giovanni Schmo" in Italy who got done with the same stuff in the same circumstances, only he's a nobody and no one buys the story and he gets a 4 year ban?? (Which, at his ranking may as well be a lifetime ban.) Plus, are all PEDs equal?

what about Mikael Ymer the Swede tennis player " Tennis, a sport with such a clear hierarchy of haves and have-nots that it resembles a medieval feudal system, is once again under scrutiny for its approach to fear and favor."

 

[lomaha]

Please look at what WADA has said? also this is not the first case where WADA has settled in its 10.8;2 provision
I suggest you read what WADA has said on this case, I can repost it if you need
Sinner has been cleared of Doping though he has to bear negligence for his team, which is fair enough, if they thought he was a Drug Cheat, he would be banned for a couple of years and rightly so. This case in question was about Sinner having to bear negligence which is fair enough.
That said maybe his team should also be under scrutiny for having a banned spray in their possession?

Honestly no one looks at what WADA said because we all agree that it's WADA who has lost all credibility

 

[Kieran]

Honestly no one looks at what WADA said because we all agree that it's WADA who has lost all credibility

Absolutely. We saw that clearly during the Olympics..

 

[Kieran]

Novak weighing in:



He’s basically saying what we’re all saying about transparency, though he loses steam a little when firstly he claims the system is weighed in favour of richer players, but then he says that it’s weighed against the super-rich Halep because she’s less famous, and then later when he fumbles around a little regarding the rule for when a player ought to have provided evidence in their favour regarding where they got contaminated.

He’s not clear, in other words, on what his issue is, beyond what we’re all saying about transparency, nor does he make an allowance for the fact that Halep’s case was much different to Sinner’s, but he says that players he’s spoken to are thinking similarly to him…

 

[kskate2]

That is your opinion. Sinner was cleared of doping, the case was about 'negligence' which he has to be held in account, fair enough and WADA under their provision 10.8.2 they said in this case 3 months was a fair outcome.
We can all argue different scenarios in this case,
What I want in future is there has to be more Transparency full stop in any case., if not there will always be "eye brows' raised? like in this case, which I can understand until the facts are disclosed and the correct rules are applied, which some people do not understand

MM, WADA isn't doing him any favors w/ this convenient ban that he agreed to serve. They and the ATP are in fact creating more inuendo and drama with their decision. What I think happened is the governing bodies took a lot of heat after it was originally reported back in the summer that he failed 2 tests to begin with and then served a silent ban while his team argued the merits of his case. To save face, they come out and say they can still appeal so he's not out of the wood yet.... The more Yannik won, the more they felt compelled to do something about it. Since he went on to win the USO, ATP finals, DC and the AO again. They arranged this agreement with him to show there's no favoritism, but that's impossible because the whole thing has been bathed in it from the very beginning.

 

[Jelenafan]

Zverev actually makes sense this time:

Jannik Sinner doping ban: Alexander Zverev issues brutally honest 'strange' verdict

Alexander Zverev has weighed in on Jannik Sinner's doping case as he labelled the situation "strange."

www.tennis365.com

“So for me, you have to decide whether it was his fault or not. If it’s not his fault, then he shouldn’t get a three-month suspension, but if it is his fault, then this is strange in a way.

But if you are guilty, then I think that for taking steroids, three months is not a suspension.

 

[Jelenafan]

Sorry but getting a ban conveniently between Slams after what appears to be negotiation is IMO

PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT

If it walks, talks and looks like a duck…

Pathetic and so bad for the optics of integrity of the sport, minute amounts does not preclude it was in his body twice.

EtA:
Waiting for Cahill to compare TPTBS to Joan of Arc.

 

[Kieran]

WADA spokesman to the BBC:

WADA say Sinner's case "a million miles away from doping"

"The scientific feedback that we received was that this could not be a case of intentional doping, including micro-dosing."

This is what makes this whole narrative more interesting. I tend to believe this, while at the same time I’m angry at Sinner and his team for what happened.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Novak weighing in:



He’s basically saying what we’re all saying about transparency, though he loses steam a little when firstly he claims the system is weighed in favour of richer players, but then he says that it’s weighed against the super-rich Halep because she’s less famous, and then later when he fumbles around a little regarding the rule for when a player ought to have provided evidence in their favour regarding where they got contaminated.

He’s not clear, in other words, on what his issue is, beyond what we’re all saying about transparency, nor does he make an allowance for the fact that Halep’s case was much different to Sinner’s, but he says that players he’s spoken to are thinking similarly to him…

Probably the last person on Earth who is currently on the ATP tour who needs to voice his opinions. IMO

 

[the AntiPusher]

A well known asshole once stated " If you are not cheating , then you aren't trying hard enough".

 

[Kieran]

A well known asshole once stated " If you are not cheating , then you aren't trying hard enough".

Can I guess his name?