Flushing Meadows Corona Park Cafe : 2013 U.S. Open

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

I think this open is historical in many ways. I believe that it is here that andy murray asserts himself as the best player in the game.

this open will make or break nole. andy is surging ahead now and nole finds himself under real pressure in a long time.

people are not really expecting much from nadal because of the knee issue and because of inactivity. he has not been doing enough.

people also don't expect much from roger.

lets see if they can find some magic at flushing meadows.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

I think this open is historical in many ways. I believe that it is here that andy murray asserts himself as the best player in the game.

this open will make or break nole. andy is surging ahead now and nole finds himself under real pressure in a long time.

people are not really expecting much from nadal because of the knee issue and because of inactivity. he has not been doing enough.

people also don't expect much from roger.

lets see if they can find some magic at flushing meadows.

I don't think it's the end of Nole if he loses at the USO. Not by a long shot actually when you consider the AO is far and away his best slam and he is getting closer at RG. But no doubt Murray could be considered the best player at the moment if he wins USO. Technically, you could say the same for Rafa if he wins USO. It is mostly about slams and if one of the top 3 wins (no not Ferrer) then they have 2 majors this season.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

the advantage that andy gains by snatching the open should have very serious spill over benefits for him at the Australian open.


I think his resolve and his motivation will go up and not down for the aussie slam. he has lost to roger there in the final and he has lost to nole there.

he is going to want to change that.


and I am not buying that nole is getting closer at RG. nadal was way the hell off this year and still managed to take it all on the red clay. he was coming back from a 7 month layoff.


he is running the tables on the red clay next year. that is all he can do at this point unless he shows me something different but that is a story for another day.

I don't think that the next meeting between nadal and nole at RG will be close. nadal was shaky.

he could easily have taken it in 4.

 

[tented]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

I don't think it's the end of Nole if he loses at the USO. Not by a long shot actually when you consider the AO is far and away his best slam and he is getting closer at RG. But no doubt Murray could be considered the best player at the moment if he wins USO. Technically, you could say the same for Rafa if he wins USO. It is mostly about slams and if one of the top 3 wins (no not Ferrer) then they have 2 majors this season.

And if Roger wins the USO, it will be one each, just like last year. After so many years of Roger and Rafa dominating the slams, it's a bit strange to have four different people win the Slams two years in a row.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

I just came across this article. looks like lendl feels the same way. he says andy has nole under pressure.

so we are faster than the rest. if you want the best take then you follow tennis frontier and the castle:



http://network.yardbarker.com/tennis/article_external/ivan_lendl_andy_murray_has_novak_djokovic_under_pressure/14035067?linksrc=foxrg_tennis

---

Andy Murray has quickly gone from being a player who couldn’t win the big one to being possibly the top player in the world. In many ways, his career is following LeBron James’, which is exactly who he compared himself to before he won the gold medal at the Olympics, the US Open, and Wimbledon. Murray is playing so well lately — he’s won two of the last four majors and the Olympics — that his coach believes he has world No. 1 player Novak Djokovic “under pressure.”

“If somebody has two majors and an Olympic gold medal, and everybody else has only one major each [in the last year], well, [people] can make their own opinion on that,” coach Ivan Lendl said after Murray beat Djokovic in straight sets, per the Guardian.

“Novak is a great player, don’t get me wrong,” Lendl said. “He has had not just a phenomenal 12 months, but basically since the start of 2011 and so the rankings look at all of that. But he is under pressure right now.”

 

[DarthFed]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

the advantage that andy gains by snatching the open should have very serious spill over benefits for him at the Australian open.


I think his resolve and his motivation will go up and not down for the aussie slam. he has lost to roger there in the final and he has lost to nole there.

he is going to want to change that.


and I am not buying that nole is getting closer at RG. nadal was way the hell off this year and still managed to take it all on the red clay. he was coming back from a 7 month layoff.


he is running the tables on the red clay next year. that is all he can do at this point unless he shows me something different but that is a story for another day.

I don't think that the next meeting between nadal and nole at RG will be close. nadal was shaky.

he could easily have taken it in 4.

It could spill over but it's a big difference beating Djokovic at AO compared to the USO. I still wouldn't like Murray's chances next year. You don't have to buy he is getting closer but please knock off the layoff excuse. Nadal had about 30+ matches on clay and aside from the 1st tournament he lost only 1 (Monte Carlo final vs. a red hot Djokovic). Djokovic was much more up and down during this RG match than Rafa was and an extra year on Rafa's legs figures to be worse than the next year on Djokovic's. RG is a walk in the park for Rafa the next 2-3 years...unless Djokovic is on the other side of the net. There won't be any easy victories, certainly it won't come as easy as the 2012 final.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

ok he did not take off for 7 months. that was just an illusion.

and he was not shaky on clay. he never lost to nole at monte carlo of all the places.


his matches on clay in south America don't count and he even lost a final there to somebody.

and who did he beat in Barcelona?


the bottom line is this: he was shaky as hell all year long and you saw exactly how shaky at Wimbledon. the man could not even manage to win a single set.

how many finals has he been to at Wimbledon again?



I know his game better than most. and his game is in shambles. part of that has to do with that 7 month layoff. and most of it has to do with the fact that he is lazy. he does not train like he used to.


I think he will either show up more prepared to do well on all surfaces or he will just have to do his thing on clay.

at least there will no 7 month layoff.

 

[DarthFed]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

His game is in shambles yet he has lost 3 matches all year and won tournaments like IW and Madrid which aren't slam dunks for him at all. Wimbledon first week he has always struggled and it is no coincidence. Super fast and low bouncing surface that eats up his spin. If the spin isn't wreaking havoc he becomes very beatable even for the journeymen of the tour. Certainly a warm up event would have helped as that made him even more vulnerable this year.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

he lost sets to players he would beat on just one leg at rg this year. he was 2 points from defeat against ferru at an earlier clay event.

he nearly lost to nole when he should have run right over him at rg.

and he did lose to him at monte carlo.


match wins don't always tell the story. there are trends in place. he lost early at Wimbledon last year as well.


there are exactly 2 reasons:

1. he is not young anymore. it takes a lot out of him to win damn near everything on clay.

2. he stopped improving after 2010.


indian wells title was pure luck. he ran into roger who had a very bad back. roger could not even stand straight, let alone play that day.


and del potro was totally spent in the final. del potro did nadal a favor by taking out nole.


so the deal is this: his results have not been very impressive on other surfaces lately. its because of reduced fitness, failure to improve, and a bad knee. he does not move like he used to.

we will just have to see how it goes at the open.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

strictly hypothetical:


who would win if we had a dunblane diamond vs clay warrior final?

 

[the AntiPusher]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

strictly hypothetical:


who would win if we had a dunblane diamond vs clay warrior final?

good question, I would like to see that final, something new

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

I just wonder if nadal is writing off the u.s. open.

it was way too risky to just count on montreal masters and cincy to get him somewhat prepared. what if he loses early at both events?


he should have taken in 2 clay events to tune up his ground game and grab a few match wins.

 

[Moxie]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

I just wonder if nadal is writing off the u.s. open.
it was way too risky to just count on montreal masters and cincy to get him somewhat prepared. what if he loses early at both events?
he should have taken in 2 clay events to tune up his ground game and grab a few match wins.

That's ridiculous to say at this stage, and slightly hysterical. 1) That Nadal is writing off the USO, and 2) that he should have added a few clay events. If he over-plays, he will risk shortening his career. He will work the tune-ups to get himself in HC shape, and he will play the USO to win it. If he does poorly in both Montreal and Cincy...well, I guess he's unlikely to win the USO, but I'm not buying that a turn in Colombia would have helped. You could argue for another HC tourney, like DC, but that's just more HC time on the knees, and I wouldn't do it. Nadal is strong enough to play well in a Slam. Either he will or he won't. The best tune-up is Canada and Cincy. That's it.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

I think he should have played hamburg. he has done it in the past.

there were many reasons to do it this time. he skipped the warmup grass event in halle and he lost in the very first round at wimby.


he will have nobody to blame but himself if he loses in the first 2 rounds at the open. there is a real opportunity at flushing meadows in case 1 or 2 of the top guns stumble.

now he wont be ready for it at the current rate.



most players practice very single day to stay sharp and to stay in the game. the game has changed.

and of all the players, a heavy topspin player needs the most practice and the most matches to stay sharp.

 

[Moxie]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

I think he should have played hamburg. he has done it in the past.

there were many reasons to do it this time. he skipped the warmup grass event in halle and he lost in the very first round at wimby.

he will have nobody to blame but himself if he loses in the first 2 rounds at the open. there is a real opportunity at flushing meadows in case 1 or 2 of the top guns stumble.
now he wont be ready for it at the current rate.

most players practice very single day to stay sharp and to stay in the game. the game has changed.

and of all the players, a heavy topspin player needs the most practice and the most matches to stay sharp.

Yes, he will have no one to blame but himself if he loses early in Flushing Meadows, but this would be the case for everyone.

You want him to play more tennis, but there are plenty of others, who are fans, who think he should protect the knees. Nadal himself has said that he may be able to play well without as much match practice as he used to think. I'll go with that. I think protecting the knees is more critical.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

agreed. health and fitness before anything but he cant seem to get off the hard courts.


you see he was even practicing on his indoor hard court in Mallorca before Wimbledon. that is where he is now.


what I am suggesting is more practice and match play on clay. clay to hard court is the smoothest and the easiest adjustment for a top player.


clay will protect his knees and bring his ground game around.

what he has been doing is not working: he is dropped to #5 and he had to take 7 months off. he lost in the very first round at wimby and he lost in the 2nd round there last year.

his way is not working and his knee is getting worse.


he will out of the sport again and soon unless he gets off the hard courts.

 

[Moxie]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

agreed. health and fitness before anything but he cant seem to get off the hard courts.
you see he was even practicing on his indoor hard court in Mallorca before Wimbledon. that is where he is now.
what I am suggesting is more practice and match play on clay. clay to hard court is the smoothest and the easiest adjustment for a top player.
clay will protect his knees and bring his ground game around.
what he has been doing is not working: he is dropped to #5 and he had to take 7 months off. he lost in the very first round at wimby and he lost in the 2nd round there last year.
his way is not working and his knee is getting worse.
he will out of the sport again and soon unless he gets off the hard courts.

At this point I have to agree with Darth. When you say what he has been doing has not been working, you ARE ignoring that he's only lost 3 matches this year, and has won a Major. The fact that he dropped to #5 was purely a function of the lay-off. (He is currently at #4, and Federer is #5.) It feels like you're being over-dramatic about the situation, and, as I bolded above in your comment, how do you know that his knee is getting worse? And how's he going to win the USO if he gets off the HCs? I believe that Rafa is making an attempt to adapt to the knee, and his current reality. It seems to me that asking him to play more, rather than protect the knee, is appealing to "old Rafa," not "new Rafa."

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

he cant win the u.s. open again princess moxie. that is not going to happen. at least I don't see it happening. we will celebrate if he can make magic at flushing meadows.

so now the trick is to stay healthy and arrive at 2014 with a mindset to do better than in 2013. and that means dominating the clay circuit and making a deep run at Wimbledon.


his remaining wins at slams will have to come from natural surfaces or none at all. he is good for 2 more RG crowns and maybe a Wimby crown and that is only if he plays his cards right.


both he and tony have been crying about how hard courts have killed his knee and his movement. this dude was limping even in a laid back practice session with Monaco at Wimbledon.


what will it take for him to minimize match play and practice on hard courts? another 7-8 month layoff will put him far behind his competition.

it is what is now: he has a painful knee. he does not move as well as he used to.

he said not too long ago that his knee is day to day.

this is not a new revelation folks. his game is off and his movement and his fitness is diminished. I am worried about it.

 

[Moxie]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

he cant win the u.s. open again princess moxie. that is not going to happen. at least I don't see it happening. we will celebrate if he can make magic at flushing meadows.

so now the trick is to stay healthy and arrive at 2014 with a mindset to do better than in 2013. and that means dominating the clay circuit and making a deep run at Wimbledon.


his remaining wins at slams will have to come from natural surfaces or none at all. he is good for 2 more RG crowns and maybe a Wimby crown and that is only if he plays his cards right.


both he and tony have been crying about how hard courts have killed his knee and his movement. this dude was limping even in a laid back practice session with Monaco at Wimbledon.


what will it take for him to minimize match play and practice on hard courts? another 7-8 month layoff will put him far behind his competition.

it is what is now: he has a painful knee. he does not move as well as he used to.

he said not too long ago that his knee is day to day.

this is not a new revelation folks. his game is off and his movement and his fitness is diminished. I am worried about it.

Yo...aren't you the guy that just asked on another thread who would win if Nadal met Murray in the final at the USO? Obviously, for you the answer is Murray. And you want him to prep by playing more clay, when you think he has no chance on HC's and you want him to save the knee? I'm not sure where you're going with that. Personally, I think Rafa has chances on the big stages on all surfaces, but he does have to save the knee...and he's not going to do that by playing more minor tournaments on clay.

 

[ClayDeath]

RE: 2013 U.S. Open Sidewalk Cafe Chats

I said that was strictly a hypothetical question. I was wondering what people`s take would be in such a final. who would they favor?

both roger and nadal are going to need some magic at the open. murray and nole will be tough.


somebody else has to work them over. maybe del potro can get his hands on nole and keep him out there for 5 hours.


similarly andy has to get caught up/hung up in a couple of 5 setters. ideally they would both need to be upset in order for nadal and roger`s chances to improve there.

right now I can only see 2 players being able to beat nole at the open: del potro and andy murray.


nadal and roger are vulnerable but lets see how others see it for now.