Early Grass Talk - 2019

[Federberg]

mate.I NEVER have ever wavered from anyone or anything..Did I say that Roger was one of the greatest servers EVER. If so where do you get his defense is the primary and only reason he won so many titles. You can get GSM to assist you.

Okay.. explain how Roger's has 20 titles and be able to defeat the other big for atleast for half of the titles..are you saying Roger's beautiful smooth playing style has given him the edge of Nadal , Murray and Djokervic.. Acourse it's his defense..

 

[Front242]

The men used to have that, too. However, given the kerfuffle this year, I don't think they'd be playing so fast and loose with the rankings, even if they didn't have a formula. Attention is being paid now. Just wait until they change it next year. They will. Like the dumb roof rule. As soon as it matters, they can see how problematic it is.

I did mention that Djokovic said he thought it was surprising. He said that he gets the rules, and of course Roger has won it 8 times, but, as he said, "but the #2 seed was Rafa."

Djokovic saying it's surprising just points to him not understanding the seeding formula which is a bit ignorant on his part tbh. Maybe since he rarely ever plays a grass tune up event it escapes his mind how things work.

Bottom line though is the current formula gives you a chance to help your ranking if you're good on grass and, once again, the whiny one only needed to reach the 1/4 final at Queens to keep his beloved number 2 seed and we wouldn't even be discussing this. Hopefully he'll get the memo next year into his thick skull.

Finally just to add, the Nadal camp must surely have realized that Federer had a very high probability of winning Halle and that the number 2 seed spot was therefore in jeopardy and yet they didn't do anything about it by choosing to play Queens. That's not a champion's mindset to just hope that things work out for you but not proactively doing anything to cement your seeding position when all that was needed was to play a mere few matches which is all he needed to do.

 

[Moxie]

Djokovic saying it's surprising just points to him not understanding the seeding formula which is a bit ignorant on his part tbh. Maybe since he rarely ever plays a grass tune up event it escapes his mind how things work.

Bottom line though is the current formula gives you a chance to help your ranking if you're good on grass and, once again, the whiny one only needed to reach the 1/4 final at Queens to keep his beloved number 2 seed and we wouldn't even be discussing this. Hopefully he'll get the memo next year into his thick skull.

Speaking of thick skulls: Djokovic knows how the seeding works at Wimbledon. He was asked his opinion. Same way Nadal was. They opined. They're neither "whiny" nor stupid. But they have opinions, and they know more about tennis than you do. BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to weigh in on Anderson getting the #4.

 

[Front242]

Speaking of thick skulls: Djokovic knows how the seeding works at Wimbledon. He was asked his opinion. Same way Nadal was. They opined. They're neither "whiny" nor stupid. But they have opinions, and they know more about tennis than you do. BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to weigh in on Anderson getting the #4.

Do they really? We're talking about the seeding system and not tennis. Obviously they know more about tennis than me and no one is debating that (except you) but clearly neither of them know fuck all about the Wimbledon seeding system which reeks of ignorance on their behalf to be frank.

 

[Moxie]

Do they really? We're talking about the seeding system and not tennis. Obviously they know more about tennis than me and no one is debating that (except you) but clearly neither of them know fuck all about the Wimbledon seeding system which reeks of ignorance on their behalf to be frank.

No, they both said they know how it works. Point is, they're not clear that it makes good sense.

 

[Front242]

No, they both said they know how it works. Point is, they're not clear that it makes good sense.

As I said yesterday, this has only become an issue now that all the big 3 are nearing the end of their careers and there is so much at stake. Those 2 didn't give a shit about this 15 years ago. And btw Djokovic said it's "surprising". How is it a surprise if he supposedly knows how it works? Clearly he doesn't.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Indeed KA got a good advantage due to his performance in WImby last year. That is the point of the grass formula to reward players based on the grass performance.

If KA was moved from #8 to even say, #5, he would have got ZERO advantage as the seeds numbered 5 through 8 all of them have exactly the same draw advantage.

How players played during 2019 is far more relevant than how they performed 12 months ago, despite the difference in surfaces. You guys cannot cry about surface changes, homogenization, lack of diversity, etc... and then pretend grass is a different sport.

 

[Moxie]

As I said yesterday, this has only become an issue now that all the big 3 are nearing the end of their careers and there is so much at stake. Those 2 didn't give a shit about this 15 years ago.

As I said, just early up-thread, it's only an issue because it's #3 ranked player displacing #2, and because those players are Nadal and Federer. So, there's a kerfuffle over it. Normally, most people don't bother over the odd Wimbledon shuffle. Look, I'm going to be honest: I don't much care. Firstly, Rafa has to get out of the first week, (not always a given,) and secondly Roger has to make it past QFs for this to matter. Thirdly, Djokovic hasn't looked like so much since the AO, either, so the whole thing could become moot, if the seeds don't hold. Don't think anyone is trying to say that Federer is getting a leg up. At least I'm not. My only point was the Nadal isn't "whining" to make a point that it's not quite fair that one tournament has a system that no other does to rearrange the seedings. It is a reasonable point. I can only imagine the Fed fans around here if it were only RG that did it to favor clay players. (Yes, I know the grass season is short.) I'm only asking you to consider it for a moment without your Fed-goggles on. As Margaret said above, they don't change the seedings for the women in the same way. It is a bit odd, you have to admit.

 

[Front242]

As I said, just early up-thread, it's only an issue because it's #3 ranked player displacing #2, and because those players are Nadal and Federer. So, there's a kerfuffle over it. Normally, most people don't bother over the odd Wimbledon shuffle. Look, I'm going to be honest: I don't much care. Firstly, Rafa has to get out of the first week, (not always a given,) and secondly Roger has to make it past QFs for this to matter. Thirdly, Djokovic hasn't looked like so much since the AO, either, so the whole thing could become moot, if the seeds don't hold. Don't think anyone is trying to say that Federer is getting a leg up. At least I'm not. My only point was the Nadal isn't "whining" to make a point that it's not quite fair that one tournament has a system that no other does to rearrange the seedings. It is a reasonable point. I can only imagine the Fed fans around here if it were only RG that did it to favor clay players. (Yes, I know the grass season is short.) I'm only asking you to consider it for a moment without your Fed-goggles on. As Margaret said above, they don't change the seedings for the women in the same way. It is a bit odd, you have to admit.

Wrong yet again. Federer is the second best clay player of his generation and it therefore wouldn't be an issue if RG used the same formula.

 

[Federberg]

How players played during 2019 is far more relevant than how they performed 12 months ago, despite the difference in surfaces. You guys cannot cry about surface changes, homogenization, lack of diversity, etc... and then pretend grass is a different sport.

I actually don't necessarily disagree with this. It's worth noting that the purpose of the ranking was less about rewarding form on grass than discerning pedigree. Let's be honest, this is Wimbledon being Wimbledon, the process is an anachronism, but it is known. All players, particularly multiple time Wimbledon winners know it. For me the only issue is the self-serving nature of Rafa's comments, not the substance of the comment itself. It's the 2 yr rankings idea all over again

 

[Federberg]

As I said, just early up-thread, it's only an issue because it's #3 ranked player displacing #2, and because those players are Nadal and Federer. So, there's a kerfuffle over it. Normally, most people don't bother over the odd Wimbledon shuffle. Look, I'm going to be honest: I don't much care. Firstly, Rafa has to get out of the first week, (not always a given,) and secondly Roger has to make it past QFs for this to matter. Thirdly, Djokovic hasn't looked like so much since the AO, either, so the whole thing could become moot, if the seeds don't hold. Don't think anyone is trying to say that Federer is getting a leg up. At least I'm not. My only point was the Nadal isn't "whining" to make a point that it's not quite fair that one tournament has a system that no other does to rearrange the seedings. It is a reasonable point. I can only imagine the Fed fans around here if it were only RG that did it to favor clay players. (Yes, I know the grass season is short.) I'm only asking you to consider it for a moment without your Fed-goggles on. As Margaret said above, they don't change the seedings for the women in the same way. It is a bit odd, you have to admit.

I seriously doubt any Fed fan would care. The irony is that if anyone in particular is guilty of wearing fan tinted goggles it's you Moxie Obviously I'm excluding the fan-trolls, those folks (and we all know who they are) are irredeemable

 

[Moxie]

Wrong yet again. Federer is the second best clay player of his generation and it therefore wouldn't be an issue if RG used the same formula.

#pointmissed

 

[Moxie]

I actually don't necessarily disagree with this. It's worth noting that the purpose of the ranking was less about rewarding form on grass than discerning pedigree. Let's be honest, this is Wimbledon being Wimbledon, the process is an anachronism, but it is known. All players, particularly multiple time Wimbledon winners know it. For me the only issue is the self-serving nature of Rafa's comments, not the substance of the comment itself. It's the 2 yr rankings idea all over again

Are you serious with the bolded above? What absolute drivel. While I find it pathetic that Darth brings in the old saw of the 2-year ranking option, from, you it just makes me sad.

I seriously doubt any Fed fan would care. The irony is that if anyone in particular of wearing fan tinted goggles it's you Moxie Obviously I'm excluding the fan-trolls, those folks (and we all know who they are) are irredeemable

This I find unfair, and unworthy of you. You have not read anything I've written. I'm not defending Nadal out of fannish-ness. Neither is Broken. You went straight to the notion that his comments were nothing but self-serving, and you have ignored every nuance in the discussion since. Why don't you read back and then we can discuss if your notion of "pedigree" makes any sense at all.

EDIT: If you think Fed fans don't care, this is further proof you haven't read the thread.

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

The best solution for this would be to introduce 3 M1000s on grass so no seeds adjustment required.

Grass-courters are already disadvantaged with the current system.

 

[Moxie]

The best solution for this would be to introduce 3 M1000s on grass so no seeds adjustment required.

Grass-courters are already disadvantaged with the current system.

Which grass-courters are you thinking of?

 

[The_Grand_Slam]

Which grass-courters are you thinking of?

To name a few,
Federer
Anderson
Raonic
Cilic
Dimitrov
Lopez
Kohlschreiber
Tsonga
Berdych

 

[Federberg]

Are you serious with the bolded above? What absolute drivel. While I find it pathetic that Darth brings in the old saw of the 2-year ranking option, in you it just makes me sad.

Your opinion I well recall the hours of pre-final coverage on the Beeb over the decades. The number of times Wimbledon officials have come on to explain certain aspects of their organisation. They've talked about this many times. It's an artefact of a bygone era where there were clearly grass court specialists and clay court specialists. As I said it's an irrelevance in an era of homogeneity. Don't hate the messenger Moxie, hate the game if you want..

 

[Federberg]

You have not read anything I've written. I'm not defending Nadal out of fannish-ness

And yet it's always Rafa you defend

 

[Moxie]

Here's a question: what is the difference between the 2-year revolving ranking idea, (long thrown out,) and the Wimbledon system of preference for grass players? Am I over-simplifying to say that one was to give some protected ranking for injured players, and the other is to give a kind of protected ranking to grass players? (ATP only.)

 

[Moxie]

Your opinion I well recall the hours of pre-final coverage on the Beeb over the decades. The number of times Wimbledon officials have come on to explain certain aspects of their organisation. They've talked about this many times. It's an artefact of a bygone era where there were clearly grass court specialists and clay court specialists. As I said it's an irrelevance in an era of homogeneity. Don't hate the messenger Moxie, hate the game if you want..

Don't hide behind Wimbledon nostalgia. As I said above, (in this thread you have clearly not read,) I can't really find when Wimbledon instituted their very peculiar seeding system, but I have to believe it was recent, when grass became the rarity, not the norm. If not, than it is really weird. And don't be smug...try responding to actual questions.