Donald Trump - Opinions?

[Moxie]

I disagree that the President doesn't have a strong influence over our country's foreign policy. (Oddly, Guantanamo Bay isn't foreign policy, as we still have sovereignty over that small bit of Cuba.) But to roll it back around to Trump, this is a reason I don't think he should be president. He has no governor over his potty mouth, he believes insult is socially and politically acceptable, and, if by any chance this country would have him, we might be able to live with his "reality TV" bombast, I don't think it would play on the diplomatic front. I give you Berlusconi as an example.

 

[britbox]

Of course he has an influence... but it's overstated. He's not a supreme leader. Congress, The Senate, The Pentagon, CIA and a billion lobby groups all have influence too.

 

[Moxie]

Of course he has an influence... but it's overstated. He's not a supreme leader. Congress, The Senate, The Pentagon, CIA and a billion lobby groups all have influence too.

That's a bit of a mash-up there. The Pentagon? Not really. The President is their Commander in Chief. The CIA? That's another story, but neither are autonomous, and are overseen, and their governing heads are placed by the President. Congress, which includes the Senate, has a say, sometimes, but they are often given only to comment on policies put forth by the President. We only went into Iraq because that was a Bush agenda. Hundreds of thousands of protesters in this country tried to stop it, but false testimony was put forth. Colin Powell, a great man, had his reputation ruined by it, and we went into Iraq, anyway. That was driven by Bush and the cabal that surrounded him. There are not a billion lobby groups, and they don't by-and-large influence foreign policy. You're thinking of a small number of billionaires, like the Koch brothers, and a few think-tanks. Which is creepy. Obama's decision to re-open relations with Cuba was his, as an example. The US President has far more influence on shaping foreign policy than domestic policy.

 

[britbox]

Oh, c'mon Moxie - don't be naive. Most of these politicos are owned to some extent. You don't think these defense companies have any impact on foreign policy for one? I used to work for one of the biggest and I know they do. There is a whirlwind of influential forces in Washington and deals will be made every day... If you insist that the president calls all the shots, then you are in fact burying Obama because he's carried out very little that he said he would do.

 

[Moxie]

I owned up to billionaires and think-tanks. And yes, I do think Obama has been extraordinarily ham-strung by an obstructionist Congress. But what we aim for in foreign policy is shaped by the President/office of the executive branch. Sure, there's cloak-and-dagger behind the scenes. But I do think the choice of President matters in terms of the direction we take vis-a-vis the rest of the world. Otherwise, why would the rest of you care? And you do seem to.

 

[britbox]

... and yet he can't even close down Guatanomo Bay - one of his original pledges. Explain?

 

[Moxie]

... and yet he can't even close down Guatanomo Bay - one of his original pledges. Explain?

That one I can't. Though, as I explained, it falls under domestic policy, technically. But I think it has been a failing of political will, and the bogeyman fear we have in this country of "terrorists," whipped up by politicians. People held for years without benefit of due process...it's appalling.

 

[Billie]

Far worse than what? Than if GW Bush hadn't sent us into Iraq, essentially upsetting the whole apple cart? For the record, I think Cali is right about the neocons and their evil and wildly misguided agenda. It started a lot of messes. It would be a mistake to blame all that on Obama, who has gotten us out of Iraq, and reduced our presence in Afghanistan. It has been done with some integrity, since we went in on false pretenses, in the first place, and not on Obama's watch. Once Bush had destabilized the region with the misguided invasion of Iraq, I'm not sure what you think Obama was to do but keep mopping up, especially with an obstructionist Congress. And the worsening relations with Russia are down to Putin. He's a megalomaniac.

Yeah what an idiot,, trying to protect his people's interest. He should have just given up on innocent Russian people in Ukraine and let them be treated like 2nd rate citizens, prosecuted, jailed, forbidden to use their language.

Heck, he should just give all the gas and other country's resources away for free, I mean it is so unfair that one country has all that richness in their possession. How dare he send his troops 5-6000 kms away from Russia under the pretense of protecting their interests. Oh he didn't do that, my bad. The troubles are at his borders, that's right.

Megalomaniac, please don't tell Cali next time that his argument and points are weak or don't have substance. You clearly don't know a lot about Putin, other than what the western media tries to portray him as. Why do you think Putin has such an overwhelming support in his country, some others too? Because he doctors the results of surveys, elections, etc? He is so smart, patient and reasonable that he is the only reason we are not in WW3 right now. But others push towards it...so who knows.

Crimea has always been Russian, the same way Kosovo has always been Serbian. People of Crimea had strong Russia to protect them, unfortunately Serbs didn't have anybody to turn to so we had to endure all the lies, shady dealings, bombs, fighting, deaths, expulsions from centuries old Serbian areas. And for what? American monetary interests?

Finally, you have to understand that other countries, other people matter in this world. Everybody has their interests. But protecting basic human rights is a lot different than protecting interests of oil and military industries, and more important, in my opinion.

 

[teddytennisfan]

No, I am calling it like it is, and in case you didn't see it, I justified my assessment by explaining what his educational influences are. I think the American education system does a very poor job of teaching history, which is essential for any public leader to know. It has been very clear with both Bush and Obama. Each has demonstrated a starry-eyed view of the Middle East that no one with any serious knowledge of history would ever have. They each have meddled in clumsy ways. The result is the rise of ISIS, the mayhem in Syria and Libya, and the mass displacement of millions of people. Yes, I stand by my position that both Bush and Obama are woefully ignorant and that they have done immense harm to the Middle East that another generation will have to pay for.

 

[teddytennisfan]

hello ALL..BRITBOX!!

haven't been around for some time -- but never forgot the tennis goings-on! and this wonderful site by Britbox!!

i can't believe everyone here -- in this particular room -- are having such an engaged discussion!! wowowow!

BUT since i've been so ''behind" on the tennis -- how about MY congrats to the great NOLE!! as usual -- always very dignified in both his performance as well as his trophy speech and commiseration with his fellow finalist.

he's well-positioned again to try for his first french and perhaps - if he can keep his very high level -- even the rest of the majors to cap another wonderful year!

 

[britbox]

Welcome back @teddytennisfan - always a pleasure to have you here!

 

[teddytennisfan]

I don't know what kind of clean up Obama did, but the world will have looked far more worse off when his time in the office is up. Now we have whole Middle East in dire straits, Africa has become terrorist hunting ground as well, and not to mention worsening of the relations with Russia.

that is a correct assessment of obama in my opinion.

there is no defense for what he has done really -- people may still excuse his ''adminsitration' with many kinds of justifications:

"he just inherited from bush"
''he could be assassinated if he did differently"
but whatever a presidency IS -- the person that inherits it -- creates HIS own stamp on it -- whether or not under duress, or influence of others (that IS what advisers are for) - or the circumstances that he inherited and it is his JOB to shape it .

however THAT shapes up -- and what he DOES with what he inherited -- is HIS responsibility. no excuses can be made for such a owerful poistion for which he campaigned.

the middle east -- and north africa have -- under obama's watch INCREASED in chaos - ISIL appeared out of the various factions of what was supposed to be a ''on the run" al qaeda -- and THAT congealed under OBAMA'S time...particularly by attacking LIBYA - DISPLAYING america's leadership ''watching on live tv" -- what amounted to BARBARISM showing their GLEE that some ''dictator" was murdered in front of the world ..while the USA MORALIZES about being 'civilized ;
AND its aftermath -- this destruction of what was once the MOST ADVANCED and prosperous country in north africa -- that was in fact the ONLY one that kept the lid on terrorism (as hussein in IRAQ had) -- from growing to the proportion we see today in syria -- and its consequences of MILLIONS left homeless and countryless now migrating and causing chaos in europe itself.

THAT is to be laid at the feet and desk of obama , his advisers, hillary clinton, the pentagon, etc...

and NOW what is he reduced to for the monumental mistakes caused by the USA ?

WHY -- BLAME PUTIN OF COURSE!

that kind of ''leader" - obama and adminsitration do NOT deserve any ''understanding" -- except to understand the truth about them:

THEY ARE WARMONGERS -- imperialists - who are obsessed with the USA as ''world ruler" - who will resort to the most bestial pollicies -- and THEN pretend that they had NOTHING to do with it while blaming others such as they do to russia over ukraine, over the eastern europeans , over syria

while ''leading from behind" to encircle russia on FALSE PRETEXTS of 'russian aggression"

this is the same obama who just months ago gleefully cackled about "the russian economy is now in tatters" -- AS IF it was something to be proud of to impose ILLEGAL , CRIMINAL sanctions in order to destroy russia's economy as punishment for russia's coming to the DEFENSE of RUSSIANS in crimea - which was NEVER ukrainian to begin with -- but whose DEEP WATER PORT THE USA wanted! right at russia's doorstep!

this is the same obama who -- demeaningly took any opportunity to belittle russian efforts in syria -- to bring stabilization back AT THE REQUEST OF THE LEGITIMATE government and following EVERY international law (while the USA crosses borders without regard) -

ONLY to watch as the USA'S TERRORIST mercenaries of ISIL that it helped to nurture and unleash for ''regime change" (just admitted yesterday BY obama himself) -

are being routed by a REAL GENUINE effort against terrorists by russia and assad --

and STILL complain that russia is ''killing moderate rebels"

who DON'T EXIST!

I MEAN -- there is really not a sufficient description of the extent of obama's and companies' MENDACITY and lowering themselves to the GUTTER - in acomplete morass of DECEIT and hypocrisy.

and THEN right now -- he is sabre rattling against CHINA? WHAT THE Phu ck?

 

[teddytennisfan]

Welcome back @teddytennisfan - always a pleasure to have you here!

heeeyyyy...!!

 

[teddytennisfan]

to ME the funniest (considering how tragic the american meddling for imperial command is) --

or one of in the past many months is:

the UN general assembly speeches. everyone OUGHT to go to the archives of that and watch as OBAMA IN A 45 minute ''over-time" speech bragged and bragged about american exceptionalism -- and about how RUSSIA is ''equal to ISIL AND EBOLA" as a ''threat" (really? to whom? if not american empire) -

to be followed by XI JINPING in a pointed but understated speech with REAL substance about constructive relations...to be followed by a BOMBSHELL of a speech by putin -- no more than 20 minutes really...

that left the assembly gaping as all eyes turned to the USA ...

when after putin methodically and calmly gave the WORLD A CHRONOLOGICAL - ACCURATE history of american ABUSE of power since world war 2 -- climaxing in the destruction of ENTIRE COUNTRIES for the SIN of not bowing to america...

and said "a certain sole power -- declaring itself as above all countries exported its so-called freedom and democracy -- and the result has been millions dead, starving, hatreds encouraged, terrorism, homelessness and hopelessness -- and this they call the civilized way..."
\
and then after a few seconds pause - looked out to the spot where the americans sat smugly --

asking to the world:

:"DO YOU not at least realize now what you have DONE?"

THAT MOMENT shifted the tectonic plates in world relationships

because PUTIN -- spoke TRUTH in a way that the USA could NOT SPIN AWAY in front of the world....

2 days later -- the russian commander who had arrived to an office just 2 blocks from the AMERICAN commander in BAGHDAD - shocked the americans with a telephone call:

?"I am coming to hand deliver a letter from teh russian state duma -- please make yourself presentable in one hour" ....

strode to the CLUELESS american = never realizing how the RUSSIAN got there under america's GREAT NSA and surveillance...

received the letter stating:

"we are starting to bomb the terrorists in syria that you only pretend to bomb...in an hour -- do not FLY your planes".

 

[teddytennisfan]

I can't believe you really want to defend Putin. He looks after Russian interests...with an iron/ham-fist. Condemnation of Russia's attempted annexation of the Crimea is not singular to US. Billie brought it up as a bullet-points argument to say it was a failing of Obama that the relations were poor, and I treated it as such, so I don't think it's "flimsy" to put it down to Putin's megalomania, but rather a short-hand, so as not to redirect the whole argument. It would be naive to think that the West ignores Russia. And as relations have soured, yes, I put it more squarely on Putin, who has all the trappings of a tyrant, (if you want to call that a "mandate") than on Obama or any other western leader.

well -- i will DEFEND putin. and CONDEMN OBAMA and the empire of chaos he leads.

teh trouble with some americans is -- they actually believe their own myth of exceptionalism -- not least by obama himself.

PUTIN looks to the interests of his country which -- UNLIKE the USA -- has had a long sad history of FOREIGN invasions -- whether it was mongols, or lithuanians, poles, swedes, galicians, attempts by the austro-hungarians (when russian included KIEV where RUSSIA WAS born) - the germans or napoleon

and even including the british from the pacific far east end in CONNIVANCE with the americans (i bet few americans know THAT?) -

AND RUSSIA'S position - to the great generalityof it -- as opposed to that of its western neighbors has been one of PURE DEFENSE of its sovereignty.

"live and let live'

and it is one of the most dastardly WESTERN/AMERICAN MYTHS that it is the russians that ''want to engulf europe"

inorder to justify western/anglo/american designs TO CONQUER russia under the pretext of ''defense against russian aggression"

THAT pretext has its present counterpart in the SAME falsehoods today


about ""the new hitler saddam hussein" with his Non-existent WMD'S.
ABOUT "IRAN'S NUKE capability soon to be turned against europe" -
FINALLY EXPOSED AS A COMPLETE PACK OF LIES by russia - once the americans were forced -- for lack of REAL EVIDENCE and substance of many decades of lying -- to come to table and lift sanctions against iran...

and EXPOSING further that the REAL reason the ''us missile defense" just meters away from the russian border in eastern europe

were NEVER intended to defend 'europe from iran" thousandsof miles away

which is a justification the USA used to station missiles near russia -- that is NOW COMPLETELY SHOT OUT OF THE WATER...

AND REVEALED TO BE AIMED -- ALL ALONG AT RUSSIA...

SO -= the fact is -- - as putin also methodically enumerated all the crhonological history of the LIES OF THE USA -- - FROM THE promises NOT to ''move an inch towards russia with NATO" - IF RUSSIA dissolved the USSR -- which they DID -


TO THE NOW EXPOSED FACT that the USA is the ONE that was PROTECTING ISIL in syria in order to remove a government they didn't like ...

what IS there to defend obama or the usa leadership of deceitful two-tonqued hypocrites?

PUTIN was CLEAR from the very beginning of his leadership more than a decade ago>

"russian sovereignty is paramount " and proceeded to KICK OUT the likes of EXXON, CHEVRON for PILLAGING and plundering the russian industries and resources -- with their conniving russian oligarchs

and THAT'S why heis painted as the ''tyrant" ...

AS IF the USA ITSELF isn't a world tyrant! raping and pillaging coungtry after country and calling it ''democracy"

with an election system bought and paid for by its rich and corporations who LEGALIZE CRIMINALITY and thievery over the american people!

so - damn right -- PUTIN deserves to be DEFENDED for doing what is good for RUSSIA -- unlike the kinds of leaders EUROPE has -- liek MERKEL who swallows and spouts what uncle sam tells her EVEN to the detriment of HER country's people and economy (which by the way -- a full 88 % of german industry and business are DEMANDING and end to the AMERICAN - instigated sanctions against russia because the germans are LOSING money) ...
damn right putin is to be defended for DEFENDING the chance for PEACE RATHER than teh CHAOS and bloodshed and misery that the USA -- INCLUDING UNDER obama -- foments everywhere across teh globe.

a former US cololent -- whose specialty was - in his own words to an interview in russia's SPUTNIK many months ago last year -- in ''surveillance and psychological warfare"

assigned to Russia as the USSR WAS dissolved , put it this way:

" i was in russia - tasked with helping to SABOTAGE RUSSIA -- because we did and have been trying to do just that...we knew there were people in the leadership that we could get to side with us for our intent to private russia's resources under our control and to control their political system ..

''naturally we watched everyone -- including putin as a younger official in their KGB -- we watched him closely even then because he was one of those that STOOD WITH HIS PEOPLE against foreign control..right through the yeltsin years and ever since...

"I am absolutely convinced that PUTIN is the best thing that ever happened to RUSSIA in the last 100 hundred years for a country that has been the grand trophy to control by the west">

"he is fluent in diplomacy, languages , history and cultures , ..whereas we can only show what passes for leaders like obama and bush -- who parade in front of the world about how exceptional we are -- but display nothing but arrogance and ignorance and show the world our american sense of entitlement that the world should bow before us...we can only look on in ENVY at the quality of russia's leaderships".

"in my opinion -- there is NO world leader today that has GREATER LOVE FOR HIS COUNTRY AND PEOPLE than VLADIMIR PUTIN..".

so the AMERICNA/WESTERN meme is that putin is some kind of ''stalin" or dictator or hitler or the personification of all evil>

REALLY?

which country and its LEADERS are responsible for destroying iraq that had NOTHING to do with 9/11 or al qaeda and infact was the MORTAL enemy of al qaeda? and which country VOTED to give the chairmanship of ''HUMAN RIGHTS" COUNCIL at the UN FOR brutal saudi arabia -- the FINANCIER OF TERRORISTS?

WHICH COUNTRY DESTROYED UKRAINE with an illegal criminal coup - where HALF of the population in the EAST ARE russians? -- BECAUSE UKRAINE previously refused to SIGN AWAY its resources to WESTERN control ?

which country has led to the near destruction of SYRIA? OR NOW YEMEN - or decades of chaos in afghanistan while PROTECTING THE OPIUM TRADE?

wow -- it must be TYRANT PUTIN! And his russia.!

I can't believe you really want to defend Putin. He looks after Russian interests...with an iron/ham-fist. Condemnation of Russia's attempted annexation of the Crimea is not singular to US. Billie brought it up as a bullet-points argument to say it was a failing of Obama that the relations were poor, and I treated it as such, so I don't think it's "flimsy" to put it down to Putin's megalomania, but rather a short-hand, so as not to redirect the whole argument. It would be naive to think that the West ignores Russia. And as relations have soured, yes, I put it more squarely on Putin, who has all the trappings of a tyrant, (if you want to call that a "mandate") than on Obama or any other western leader.

 

[teddytennisfan]

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015...-look-close-put-countries-military-bases.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/russia-wants-war.jpg

Putin probably is a megalomaniac - but he looks after Russian interests... largely ignored or sneered at by the western states.

The worsening relations with Russia were largely down to western interference in the Ukraine (imagine if the Russians started interfering on the American border states)... well they did that once with Cuba and it nearly caused a nuclear war... Furthermore, sanctions on Russia, an oil war to weaken their economy and military encirclement by the west may have a lot more to do with it that Putin's ego. He's also got a far bigger mandate with the Russian people than any western leader have with their own. To say, worsening relations with Russia are down to Putin is a very flimsy argument.

 

[teddytennisfan]

early in 2014 in califronia obama hosted by the chinese president XI JINPING...

u know the leader of the ''china threat" that just happenes to be america's banker?

in a demonstration of obama/usa's utter lack of grace - in their JOINT press appearance -- proceeded to BERATE CHINA for ''spying" on america to ''steal our industrail secrets"...

with just a smiling jinping..

the DAY AFTER was the revelation by EDWARD SNOWDEN of the global MASSIVE NSA SURVEILLANCE system of oh so liberty loving america...

INCLUDING the exposure that the NSA SPIES FOR AMERICAN CORPORATIONS in order to STEAL INDUSTRIAL SECRETS -- with the biggest targets being CHINA AND GERMANY.

uh -- shall we say hypocrisy?

in early 2015 = around february if i remember correctly

XI JINPING AGAIN visited the USA TO talk trade...etc..
and as befitting the leader of the world's BIGGEST popul;ation and largest market -- not to mention the BANKER of the BANKTRUPT USA -- OUGHT to have been given a full-bore STATE VISIT receptioln..but no

EMPEROR OBAMA is so high and mighty that he wouldn't DEIN to accord that -- and just a ''breakfast " meeting is enough...no problem ...since jinping had more important ''breakfast" to try in new york --

such as ORDERING 200 BOEING AIRLINERS -- if the USA ''behaves"...and can CHANGE it and buy RUSSIAN TUPOLEV airliners jets -- much better, cheaper, VERY ROOMY , MORE FUEL EFFICIENT and easier to maintain anyway (just ask the IRISH) ...

soon after JINPING LEFT -- obama couldn't HELP but make a big speech in california to the 'TECH INDUSTRY" --

intoning:

"america is a pacific nation -- therefore we are also an ASIAN nation -- and we INTEND to be THE ASIAN LEADER".

at which -- the chinese took note of that PRESUMPTION and editorialized in their state media:

"we have noticed that the american president obama recently made statements about their pivot to asia...we DISAGREE:

"AMERICA may be a Pacific Nation...

but that does NOT MEAN it is also an ASIAN nation..

and has NO BUSINESS thinking it is THE asian LEADER".

and in the

 

[teddytennisfan]

Yeah what an idiot,, trying to protect his people's interest. He should have just given up on innocent Russian people in Ukraine and let them be treated like 2nd rate citizens, prosecuted, jailed, forbidden to use their language.

Heck, he should just give all the gas and other country's resources away for free, I mean it is so unfair that one country has all that richness in their possession. How dare he send his troops 5-6000 kms away from Russia under the pretense of protecting their interests. Oh he didn't do that, my bad. The troubles are at his borders, that's right.

Megalomaniac, please don't tell Cali next time that his argument and points are weak or don't have substance. You clearly don't know a lot about Putin, other than what the western media tries to portray him as. Why do you think Putin has such an overwhelming support in his country, some others too? Because he doctors the results of surveys, elections, etc? He is so smart, patient and reasonable that he is the only reason we are not in WW3 right now. But others push towards it...so who knows.

Crimea has always been Russian, the same way Kosovo has always been Serbian. People of Crimea had strong Russia to protect them, unfortunately Serbs didn't have anybody to turn to so we had to endure all the lies, shady dealings, bombs, fighting, deaths, expulsions from centuries old Serbian areas. And for what? American monetary interests?

Finally, you have to understand that other countries, other people matter in this world. Everybody has their interests. But protecting basic human rights is a lot different than protecting interests of oil and military industries, and more important, in my opinion.

your last paragraph DEFINES the entire american CONCEIT in the sense that americans are INCAPABLE as a nation of lookiing at others as they ARE - AND THAT they are EQUAL to americans and not subject to american ''lectures" or ''civilizing" even if americans THINK and believe they should BE .

THE TROUBLE with americans - in general of course (do understand when I generalize it is BECAUSE that is what america has EARNED -- to be generalized regardless of what individually more conscientious americans might think otherwise) --

is said by some american poet or something:

"the trouble with US americans is we are unable to see

ourselves as OTHERS see us".

this includes the COMMON very characteristic american notion tht what makes others who they are are somehow ''less worthy" as that of being american...that -- for example -- as was promoted in the bombing and destruction of yugoslavia and serbia --

"oh the serbs!!!! oh my god those SERBS -- they are genocidal!!!! oh my god -- those EASTERN -- those slavs!!! "

IT applies -- like a PATTERN repeating itself everywhere the way an old one-trick pony or grandma weaves the same pattern over and over and over again to make a blanket...

"it's those CHINESE!!! OH MY GOD they are threatening asians!!"
''it's thos RUSSIANS -- putin -- oh my god -- run -- run -- stalin is back!!!"
''it's those SOCIALISTS -- oh my god -- they are going to destroy our way of life"!!
\
''it's the GHOST OF CHAVEZ -- oh my god those chavistas don't know how to WORK"!!
\''OH MY GOD terraaaaaaarrrisssstssss come to get us" !!

they have to be CIVILIZED by our almighty DOLLAR -- OUR COURAGEOUS MARINES AND SPECIAL OPS!! Kerry and ablright and nuland all tried to REASON with them but they won't be REASONABLE!!!

americans -- through leaders, policies -- actions -- AND the attitudes of their opulation -- not least the ABILITY to DEFEND the indefensible about their USA'S BRUTALITIES (''we're defending freedom and security"!!)

then portray themselves to the rest of the world as the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they CLAIM to be about high and mighty righteous ''good guys".

WHOSE - ACTUAL first choices,k second choices, last choices are VIOLENCE in all their forms -- whether by INTIMIDATING countries that can not stand up to the MARINES! and helicopters that fly over foreign skies COMPLETELY in defiance of treaties and international norms and then calling it ''proper" --

or twisting arms of countries to give up their sovereignties -- that's what's EUROPE is about today -- or economic warfare such as against russia, iran.etc..taht commit the 'sin" of actually thinking and behaving like they ARE THEIR OWN sovereign countries -- the majority of them FAR OLDER than the Upstart american ''nation".

what was it the LATE LAKOTA CHIEF -- RUSSELL MEANS -- that died in 2013 said in his last ingterview to RUSSIA TODAY (yes that TINY BUDGET by comparison russian state-supported BUT jounralistically VERY independent site the USA AND BRITISH MEDIA ARE SO frightened of!) --
before he died of luekemia?

"teh USA is really an ARTIFICIAL NATION -- once cobbled together for no better reason than for the god of profit..but it PRETENDS that it is a country".

and the same goes with jus tabout EVERYTHYING that was ever built on what is actually anyway STOLEN land -- from people whose lives and cultures were stolen from them -- THERE IN -- THE FIRST GREAT SIN

that americans like to BURY with their high sounding self-regard that justifies EXPANSION of the SAME ARTIFICIAL impositions upon others elsewhere --

is the explanation of EVERYTYHING that comes from the mouths of american '\\policy" AND their justifications by ORDINARY americans.

but -- the bottom line is

AMERICA IS THE last ''COUNTRY" OR PEOPLE on earth who have ANY business MORALIZING and judging others!

EXAMPLES of such judging:

|"putin is an authoritarian"
"the serbs committed genocide"
'\'the chinese communist party is repressive".
"the yanukovic government before the maidan protests was so corrupt"..
''the arabs are terrorists".
''the muslims are terrorists"
"'the russians don't appreciate freedom"
''the foreigners come to america to take advntage of our social secuirity".
''the world hates us because of our freedom and way of life"...

"ITS ALL PUTIN'S FAULT"!

oh really?

the fact is -- in WORLD OPINION ACROSS cultures --

putin IS considered the ADULT when surrounded by the whining, hypocritical, brats that call themselves ''leaders of the west" and masters of the universe!

who haven't seen a DISASTER they can author that they'd BLAME on others!

and CHIEF AMONG THEM is the CURRENT occupant of the IMPERIAL throne

whose pronouncements increasingly display a bad, bad case of SCHIZOPHRENIC delusions -- TALKING one way off ONE SIDE -- AND THEN ANOTHER the next day....which since it goes all across the board with the res tof them -- kerry mewling in discussions with LAVROV TRYING to coerce russia to capituate to america DEMANDS -- WITH BIG FAT NYET from lavrov --

and before the microphones are dead tells his american audience "russia is at fault"

for exactly what? he doesn't SAY...

just that RUSSIA won't STOP BOMBING TERRORISTS FOR REAL that the USA IS ePxosed by russia to have been PROTECTING and AIDING in their BLACK MARKET OIL SMUGGLING OPERATION

stolen from iraq and north syria !! to turkey for PROFITEERING . !

and what does EMPEROR OBAMA say about THAT?

HE DEMANDS that russia STOP BOMBING TERRORISTS That the USA PUHSED INTO SYRIA! WITH THEIR CIA AND ''SPEC OPS" '''trainers"

(all exosed by russia mind you -- but you wont' hear THAT in us media)

BECAUSE IT ''bothers our ally TURKEY"

THAT HAS bgeen teh RECIPIENT of the SMUGGLING OPERATION profits and the host of the TERRORISTS! AND has been invading northern syrian territory!

now --

will someone who still ''DEFENDS" OBAMA and their ilk please stand up and EXPLAIN

THE OBVIOUS?

WHY IS THE USA practically IN ALLIANCE WITH ITS TERORRIST MERCENARIES like ISIL AND AL QAEDA while FRIGHTENING everyhone into compliance to ''fight terrorists?"

oh wait -- THAT'S BECAUSE -- IT'S THE USA that created them to begin with !! as mercenary terror groups to REGIME CHANGE and destabilize countries

in order to justify american "'saviour and liberating"

to OCCUPY AND RULE countries!

thats what!

so if americans still LIKE to think PUTIN IS A BAD GUY?

oh my goodness -- HE or the russians AREN'T

amerifans just have to Look at the mirror IF THEY ARE LOOKING FOR THE BAD GUYS!

as POGO said "sir i found the enemy -=- he is US"!

that's right -- the gre3a tmajority of the rest of the world =-- despite what some of their leaders who are VASSALS of the CIA and USA and it scorporations --

have LONG SEEN THE USA for what it is:

"the number one THREAT to the world and peace".

americans -- you're NOT the saviours you like to think of yourselves -- you're THE problem!

and nothing defines many americans -- right up to their ''DEAR LEADER" OBAMA --

BETTER THAN THIS:

"AMERICAN -- IGNORANT AND PROUD OF IT!!"

Yeah what an idiot,, trying to protect his people's interest. He should have just given up on innocent Russian people in Ukraine and let them be treated like 2nd rate citizens, prosecuted, jailed, forbidden to use their language.

Heck, he should just give all the gas and other country's resources away for free, I mean it is so unfair that one country has all that richness in their possession. How dare he send his troops 5-6000 kms away from Russia under the pretense of protecting their interests. Oh he didn't do that, my bad. The troubles are at his borders, that's right.

Megalomaniac, please don't tell Cali next time that his argument and points are weak or don't have substance. You clearly don't know a lot about Putin, other than what the western media tries to portray him as. Why do you think Putin has such an overwhelming support in his country, some others too? Because he doctors the results of surveys, elections, etc? He is so smart, patient and reasonable that he is the only reason we are not in WW3 right now. But others push towards it...so who knows.

Crimea has always been Russian, the same way Kosovo has always been Serbian. People of Crimea had strong Russia to protect them, unfortunately Serbs didn't have anybody to turn to so we had to endure all the lies, shady dealings, bombs, fighting, deaths, expulsions from centuries old Serbian areas. And for what? American monetary interests?

Finally, you have to understand that other countries, other people matter in this world. Everybody has their interests. But protecting basic human rights is a lot different than protecting interests of oil and military industries, and more important, in my opinion.

your last paragraph DEFINES the entire american CONCEIT in the sense that americans are INCAPABLE as a nation of lookiing at others as they ARE - AND THAT they are EQUAL to americans and not subject to american ''lectures" or ''civilizing" even if americans THINK and believe they should BE .

THE TROUBLE with americans - in general of course (do understand when I generalize it is BECAUSE that is what america has EARNED -- to be generalized regardless of what individually more conscientious americans might think otherwise) --

is said by some american poet or something:

"the trouble with US americans is we are unable to see

ourselves as OTHERS see us".

this includes the COMMON very characteristic american notion tht what makes others who they are are somehow ''less worthy" as that of being american...that -- for example -- as was promoted in the bombing and destruction of yugoslavia and serbia --

"oh the serbs!!!! oh my god those SERBS -- they are genocidal!!!! oh my god -- those EASTERN -- those slavs!!! "

IT applies -- like a PATTERN repeating itself everywhere the way an old one-trick pony or grandma weaves the same pattern over and over and over again to make a blanket...

"it's those CHINESE!!! OH MY GOD they are threatening asians!!"
''it's thos RUSSIANS -- putin -- oh my god -- run -- run -- stalin is back!!!"
''it's those SOCIALISTS -- oh my god -- they are going to destroy our way of life"!!
\
''it's the GHOST OF CHAVEZ -- oh my god those chavistas don't know how to WORK"!!
\''OH MY GOD terraaaaaaarrrisssstssss come to get us" !!

they have to be CIVILIZED by our almighty DOLLAR -- OUR COURAGEOUS MARINES AND SPECIAL OPS!! Kerry and ablright and nuland all tried to REASON with them but they won't be REASONABLE!!!

americans -- through leaders, policies -- actions -- AND the attitudes of their opulation -- not least the ABILITY to DEFEND the indefensible about their USA'S BRUTALITIES (''we're defending freedom and security"!!)

then portray themselves to the rest of the world as the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they CLAIM to be about high and mighty righteous ''good guys".

WHOSE - ACTUAL first choices,k second choices, last choices are VIOLENCE in all their forms -- whether by INTIMIDATING countries that can not stand up to the MARINES! and helicopters that fly over foreign skies COMPLETELY in defiance of treaties and international norms and then calling it ''proper" --

or twisting arms of countries to give up their sovereignties -- that's what's EUROPE is about today -- or economic warfare such as against russia, iran.etc..taht commit the 'sin" of actually thinking and behaving like they ARE THEIR OWN sovereign countries -- the majority of them FAR OLDER than the Upstart american ''nation".

what was it the LATE LAKOTA CHIEF -- RUSSELL MEANS -- that died in 2013 said in his last ingterview to RUSSIA TODAY (yes that TINY BUDGET by comparison russian state-supported BUT jounralistically VERY independent site the USA AND BRITISH MEDIA ARE SO frightened of!) --
before he died of luekemia?

"teh USA is really an ARTIFICIAL NATION -- once cobbled together for no better reason than for the god of profit..but it PRETENDS that it is a country".

and the same goes with jus tabout EVERYTHYING that was ever built on what is actually anyway STOLEN land -- from people whose lives and cultures were stolen from them -- THERE IN -- THE FIRST GREAT SIN

that americans like to BURY with their high sounding self-regard that justifies EXPANSION of the SAME ARTIFICIAL impositions upon others elsewhere --

is the explanation of EVERYTYHING that comes from the mouths of american '\\policy" AND their justifications by ORDINARY americans.

but -- the bottom line is

AMERICA IS THE last ''COUNTRY" OR PEOPLE on earth who have ANY business MORALIZING and judging others!

EXAMPLES of such judging:

|"putin is an authoritarian"
"the serbs committed genocide"
'\'the chinese communist party is repressive".
"the yanukovic government before the maidan protests was so corrupt"..
''the arabs are terrorists".
''the muslims are terrorists"
"'the russians don't appreciate freedom"
''the foreigners come to america to take advntage of our social secuirity".
''the world hates us because of our freedom and way of life"...

"ITS ALL PUTIN'S FAULT"!

oh really?

the fact is -- in WORLD OPINION ACROSS cultures --

putin IS considered the ADULT when surrounded by the whining, hypocritical, brats that call themselves ''leaders of the west" and masters of the universe!

who haven't seen a DISASTER they can author that they'd BLAME on others!

and CHIEF AMONG THEM is the CURRENT occupant of the IMPERIAL throne

whose pronouncements increasingly display a bad, bad case of SCHIZOPHRENIC delusions -- TALKING one way off ONE SIDE -- AND THEN ANOTHER the next day....which since it goes all across the board with the res tof them -- kerry mewling in discussions with LAVROV TRYING to coerce russia to capituate to america DEMANDS -- WITH BIG FAT NYET from lavrov --

and before the microphones are dead tells his american audience "russia is at fault"

for exactly what? he doesn't SAY...

just that RUSSIA won't STOP BOMBING TERRORISTS FOR REAL that the USA IS ePxosed by russia to have been PROTECTING and AIDING in their BLACK MARKET OIL SMUGGLING OPERATION

stolen from iraq and north syria !! to turkey for PROFITEERING . !

and what does EMPEROR OBAMA say about THAT?

HE DEMANDS that russia STOP BOMBING TERRORISTS That the USA PUHSED INTO SYRIA! WITH THEIR CIA AND ''SPEC OPS" '''trainers"

(all exosed by russia mind you -- but you wont' hear THAT in us media)

BECAUSE IT ''bothers our ally TURKEY"

THAT HAS bgeen teh RECIPIENT of the SMUGGLING OPERATION profits and the host of the TERRORISTS! AND has been invading northern syrian territory!

now --

will someone who still ''DEFENDS" OBAMA and their ilk please stand up and EXPLAIN

THE OBVIOUS?

WHY IS THE USA practically IN ALLIANCE WITH ITS TERORRIST MERCENARIES like ISIL AND AL QAEDA while FRIGHTENING everyhone into compliance to ''fight terrorists?"

oh wait -- THAT'S BECAUSE -- IT'S THE USA that created them to begin with !! as mercenary terror groups to REGIME CHANGE and destabilize countries

in order to justify american "'saviour and liberating"

to OCCUPY AND RULE countries!

thats what!

so if americans still LIKE to think PUTIN IS A BAD GUY?

oh my goodness -- HE or the russians AREN'T

amerifans just have to Look at the mirror IF THEY ARE LOOKING FOR THE BAD GUYS!

as POGO said "sir i found the enemy -=- he is US"!

that's right -- the gre3a tmajority of the rest of the world =-- despite what some of their leaders who are VASSALS of the CIA and USA and it scorporations --

have LONG SEEN THE USA for what it is:

"the number one THREAT to the world and peace".

americans -- you're NOT the saviours you like to think of yourselves -- you're THE problem!

and nothing defines many americans -- right up to their ''DEAR LEADER" OBAMA --

BETTER THAN THIS:

"AMERICAN -- IGNORANT AND PROUD OF IT!!"

Oh, c'mon Moxie - don't be naive. Most of these politicos are owned to some extent. You don't think these defense companies have any impact on foreign policy for one? I used to work for one of the biggest and I know they do. There is a whirlwind of influential forces in Washington and deals will be made every day... If you insist that the president calls all the shots, then you are in fact burying Obama because he's carried out very little that he said he would do.

Yeah what an idiot,, trying to protect his people's interest. He should have just given up on innocent Russian people in Ukraine and let them be treated like 2nd rate citizens, prosecuted, jailed, forbidden to use their language.

Heck, he should just give all the gas and other country's resources away for free, I mean it is so unfair that one country has all that richness in their possession. How dare he send his troops 5-6000 kms away from Russia under the pretense of protecting their interests. Oh he didn't do that, my bad. The troubles are at his borders, that's right.

Megalomaniac, please don't tell Cali next time that his argument and points are weak or don't have substance. You clearly don't know a lot about Putin, other than what the western media tries to portray him as. Why do you think Putin has such an overwhelming support in his country, some others too? Because he doctors the results of surveys, elections, etc? He is so smart, patient and reasonable that he is the only reason we are not in WW3 right now. But others push towards it...so who knows.

Crimea has always been Russian, the same way Kosovo has always been Serbian. People of Crimea had strong Russia to protect them, unfortunately Serbs didn't have anybody to turn to so we had to endure all the lies, shady dealings, bombs, fighting, deaths, expulsions from centuries old Serbian areas. And for what? American monetary interests?

Finally, you have to understand that other countries, other people matter in this world. Everybody has their interests. But protecting basic human rights is a lot different than protecting interests of oil and military industries, and more important, in my opinion.

Yeah what an idiot,, trying to protect his people's interest. He should have just given up on innocent Russian people in Ukraine and let them be treated like 2nd rate citizens, prosecuted, jailed, forbidden to use their language.

Heck, he should just give all the gas and other country's resources away for free, I mean it is so unfair that one country has all that richness in their possession. How dare he send his troops 5-6000 kms away from Russia under the pretense of protecting their interests. Oh he didn't do that, my bad. The troubles are at his borders, that's right.

Megalomaniac, please don't tell Cali next time that his argument and points are weak or don't have substance. You clearly don't know a lot about Putin, other than what the western media tries to portray him as. Why do you think Putin has such an overwhelming support in his country, some others too? Because he doctors the results of surveys, elections, etc? He is so smart, patient and reasonable that he is the only reason we are not in WW3 right now. But others push towards it...so who knows.

Crimea has always been Russian, the same way Kosovo has always been Serbian. People of Crimea had strong Russia to protect them, unfortunately Serbs didn't have anybody to turn to so we had to endure all the lies, shady dealings, bombs, fighting, deaths, expulsions from centuries old Serbian areas. And for what? American monetary interests?

Finally, you have to understand that other countries, other people matter in this world. Everybody has their interests. But protecting basic human rights is a lot different than protecting interests of oil and military industries, and more important, in my opinion.

 

[britbox]

Interesting alternative spin to western media status quo reporting teddy. What are your thoughts on the foreign policy statements by the leading US presidential candidates?

 

[Glenys]

My thoughts on Trump would mean I would need to mod myself!