Donald Trump - Opinions?

Moxie

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Sure Donald Trump has a huge investment in the "scared." He stokes their fears. I do believe he doesn't care much about David Duke, but his problem was wobbling on disavowing him and the white supremacists that are backing Trump. Surely he did a poor job with that one. I know he doesn't pay much attention to it, but he knows it's out there, and can't go against it because it really is part of his base. He stokes the fires of fear of the "other." His message is at base racist, along with his own version of American Exceptionalism, which is mostly just "Trump is great!, so why not ride his coat tails?" Which on it's face is erroneous. People are pinning their hopes on a charlatan, a snake-oil salesman. He won't talk about his foreign policy agenda, or elaborate any clear plans for health care, the economy, etc. It's all just "I'll make it great" and "We will win!"

And no, I won't read that Ann Coulter piece. I have followed some of your links in the interest of fairness and debate, but Coulter is a bridge too far. I've read a fair amount from her already, and it's enough. She is neither an interesting pundit, nor fair-minded in any way. She's very like Trump, though: a blow-hard who's mostly interested in herself.
 

calitennis127

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Sure Donald Trump has a huge investment in the "scared." He stokes their fears. I do believe he doesn't care much about David Duke, but his problem was wobbling on disavowing him and the white supremacists that are backing Trump. Surely he did a poor job with that one. I know he doesn't pay much attention to it, but he knows it's out there, and can't go against it because it really is part of his base. He stokes the fires of fear of the "other." His message is at base racist, along with his own version of American Exceptionalism, which is mostly just "Trump is great!, so why not ride his coat tails?" Which on it's face is erroneous. People are pinning their hopes on a charlatan, a snake-oil salesman. He won't talk about his foreign policy agenda, or elaborate any clear plans for health care, the economy, etc. It's all just "I'll make it great" and "We will win!"

And no, I won't read that Ann Coulter piece. I have followed some of your links in the interest of fairness and debate, but Coulter is a bridge too far. I've read a fair amount from her already, and it's enough. She is neither an interesting pundit, nor fair-minded in any way. She's very like Trump, though: a blow-hard who's mostly interested in herself.

Thank you for having such an open mind to read people with whom you disagree - you really exemplify the values of tolerance and free exchange of ideas.

First of all - Trump DID disavow Duke multiple times before the wobbling. Tapper just kept asking so he could dig something up. Second, white supremacists in the David Duke sense account for maybe .01% of the US population. They are irrelevant and powerless. Who cares what they think? Nothing they say has any effect on anything, except in this case because that is how you and the likes of Tapper want to characterize Trump.

As for stoking "the fires of fear of the other". Trump's two main controversial positions are stopping illegal immigration and stopping Islamic immigration. Ending illegal immigration is not a radical position. Hundreds of countries throughout the world control their borders. There is nothing unique about what Trump is calling for.

Regarding Islamic immigrants, the behavior of numerous Muslims in America and throughout the world has made concerns over terrorism entirely sensible and legitimate. Islamic terrorists have shown the capacity to hit major cities (New York, London, Paris, Madrid, Istanbul, Jakarta) as well as to do lone wolf attacks. There are new terrorist attacks perpetrated in the name of Islam literally each week across the world. Being concerned about Islamic immigration is entirely rational and logical. It is a product of doing mathematics.

As for Trump's policy, I laugh at the idea that Trump lacks substance while other candidates have it. What is Obama's substance? "Islam is a peaceful religion, everyone should have healthcare, diplomacy always works". Oh wow, that is really profound. Trump has actually given some excellent explanations recently on the error of taking out Saddam in Iraq as well as Qaddafi in Libya. On the economy, he has done quite a good job of explaining the pitfalls of corporate inversions and how foreign governments manipulate their currencies to the detriment of America. The problem is not that Trump's positions lack substance but that his critics do not like his positions. Usually, however, Trump is much closer to being right than they are.
 
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calitennis127

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I actually wasted my time reading your nonsense then felt embarrassed when I read that Obama isn't articulate! No wonder you fancy yourself a Trump translator. What garbage. I'll leave you to it mate. But I'll add one more thing, you persistently site single examples in an attempt to bolster your argument, it makes your case lose force. It's clear you're not aware of this. I guess you missed the class on data mining and statistical significance. Anyway moving on..

The word is "cite", not "site". I recommend that you learn how to speak English before you try communicating with it on a high level. You know nothing about Islam or any issue of significance. You are a total ignoramus. Sorry that I cited statistics you can't bear to face, or that I list Islamic terrorist attacks you wish had never happened. I just recommend that you read a couple hadiths so you aren't so ignorant of Islam. The dirty secret about people like yourself is that not only is your education completely superficial, but the main reason you take the positions you do is to provide yourself moral satisfaction. Nothing you suggest or believe in has ever helped a minority anywhere. You are just a standard, effeminate modern white leftist with a cheap "education" and boatloads of prejudice injected in your brain.
 

Federberg

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The word is "cite", not "site". I recommend that you learn how to speak English before you try communicating with it on a high level. You know nothing about Islam or any issue of significance. You are a total ignoramus. Sorry that I cited statistics you can't bear to face, or that I list Islamic terrorist attacks you wish had never happened. I just recommend that you read a couple hadiths so you aren't so ignorant of Islam. The dirty secret about people like yourself is that not only is your education completely superficial, but the main reason you take the positions you do is to provide yourself moral satisfaction. Nothing you suggest or believe in has ever helped a minority anywhere. You are just a standard, effeminate modern white leftist with a cheap "education" and boatloads of prejudice injected in your brain.

You're hilarious. I'll not even comment on your trying to make hay on a typo. I just noticed your new thread. You make me laugh. I like the fact that I'm bothering you enough for you to waste your time spamming like that. I'm encouraged and I'll try to keep up the good work! :drums:
 

calitennis127

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You're hilarious. I'll not even comment on your trying to make hay on a typo. I just noticed your new thread. You make me laugh. I like the fact that I'm bothering you enough for you to waste your time spamming like that. I'm encouraged and I'll try to keep up the good work! :drums:

Ignorance deserves to be treated harshly, Federberg. It is a very delicious irony that an Obama fan like yourself is citing an op-ed by a leading Washington architect of the Irag war like Robert Kagan.

But a quick question:

Do you know what the hadiths are? (In other words, did those superficial Islamic apologetics articles from the BBC you read even mention what they are?)
 

Federberg

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Ignorance deserves to be treated harshly, Federberg. It is a very delicious irony that an Obama fan like yourself is citing an op-ed by a leading Washington architect of the Irag war like Robert Kagan.

But a quick question:

Do you know what the hadiths are? (In other words, did those superficial Islamic apologetics articles from the BBC you read even mention what they are?)
Lol! Yes I do.

You don't take much notice of what people write do you? I am not an Obama fan. I'm just not swayed by the toxic narrative sweeping across the United States. It's a delicious irony to me that the very strategy that's been used to frustrate the last 2 Democrat Presidents, has resulted in the creation of the Donald for President band wagon. If it's not clear to you already I'll repeat this.. I'm for small government. I don't like the idea of the state interfering with either my financial or social life. I am hardly an Obama supporter. I am however independent minded enough to determine which parts of any parties policies I choose to support and which I don't. I used to be a banker at Goldman Sachs, and I left to trade at a hedge fund. Now I run my own business, quite successfully. I am hardly your typical Obama supporter. The idea of me supporting the Labour party in my country makes me shudder. So I find some of your comments very funny, but quite revealing about yourself (and it's not a good look mate).

The combination of the Christian right and fiscal conservatives was never something I particularly liked, but it was tolerable. But over the last 2 decades (and for me it got worse after Gingrich), the GOP has constructed a narrative that is based increasingly on personality and not policy. Just take the example at the recent GOP primaries. It is Obama's prerogative to select the new Supreme Court justice, but these candidates either don't understand the Constitution or are being so childish they refuse to respect it. These are the same people who (thank goodness they won't be) if elected to office would make a song and dance about dissenters being unpatriotic and other such nonsense. It's hard for me to respect politicians of that calibre. Even if some of the things they might want to do, might be closer to my preferences. The article I posted delves into some of the same issues. For some bizarre reason you don't want to focus on the substance of the guy's editorial, but rather talk about his Iraq record. Who cares??

Sadly none of us on this forum know if you agree that Republican strategies have led to Trump's run for the Presidency, an interesting topic in itself. All we get from you is invective, insults, and wild digressions from the discussions at hand. Sometimes it's entertaining, at other times it's just a big yawn mate.
 
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Moxie

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Thank you for having such an open mind to read people with whom you disagree - you really exemplify the values of tolerance and free exchange of ideas.

First of all - Trump DID disavow Duke multiple times before the wobbling. Tapper just kept asking so he could dig something up. Second, white supremacists in the David Duke sense account for maybe .01% of the US population. They are irrelevant and powerless. Who cares what they think? Nothing they say has any effect on anything, except in this case because that is how you and the likes of Tapper want to characterize Trump.

As for stoking "the fires of fear of the other". Trump's two main controversial positions are stopping illegal immigration and stopping Islamic immigration. Ending illegal immigration is not a radical position. Hundreds of countries throughout the world control their borders. There is nothing unique about what Trump is calling for.

Regarding Islamic immigrants, the behavior of numerous Muslims in America and throughout the world has made concerns over terrorism entirely sensible and legitimate. Islamic terrorists have shown the capacity to hit major cities (New York, London, Paris, Madrid, Istanbul, Jakarta) as well as to do lone wolf attacks. There are new terrorist attacks perpetrated in the name of Islam literally each week across the world. Being concerned about Islamic immigration is entirely rational and logical. It is a product of doing mathematics.

As for Trump's policy, I laugh at the idea that Trump lacks substance while other candidates have it. What is Obama's substance? "Islam is a peaceful religion, everyone should have healthcare, diplomacy always works". Oh wow, that is really profound. Trump has actually given some excellent explanations recently on the error of taking out Saddam in Iraq as well as Qaddafi in Libya. On the economy, he has done quite a good job of explaining the pitfalls of corporate inversions and how foreign governments manipulate their currencies to the detriment of America. The problem is not that Trump's positions lack substance but that his critics do not like his positions. Usually, however, Trump is much closer to being right than they are.
Cali, I respond to you because I am responding to the thread. Neither you nor I think we're going to change each others' opinions. Britbox has asked for opinions on Trump. Our opinions conflict. If he wants to read what Ann Coulter has to say, well, you've put it up there. For my money, she's too biased by far to be worth reading any more.

You want to compare Obama and Trump on substance? When asked by Stephanopolous if he would disavow white supremacists, Trump said this:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...y_thats_done_more_for_equality_as_i_have.html

Compare this to Barack Obama on race:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...=e2c95a34c851e05c97d62299b676340c&action=view

Trump's claim to substance on race questions is that he created a great club in Palm Beach, and it's "open to everyone." Yeah, if you have $100,000. It's a very weird response, but I wouldn't say it was "substantial," especially compared to Obama, who has been poignant on the issue in speeches, in his book, and in his policy comments.
 
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calitennis127

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Lol! Yes I do.

You clearly do not know much about the hadiths or else you would have a better understanding of Islam. You are simply believing the standard Islamophile, anti-Christian version of history and theology that is analogous to a cheap meal at McDonald's. No substance.

It's a delicious irony to me that the very strategy that's been used to frustrate the last 2 Democrat Presidents, has resulted in the creation of the Donald for President band wagon.

The exact opposite is true, Federberg. The reason the Republican electorate has given up on establishment candidates and gone with Trump is that they feel that the Republicans have caved in to Obama. Trump is not an extension of Republican behavior but a departure from it. To take one of numerous examples, I know numerous small business owners (accounting firms, medical practices, etc.) who have seen their employees' insurance costs skyrocket since Obamacare passed. They are getting killed by Obamacare and they are furious that the Republicans allowed Obama to pass it. It is this kind of sentiment which explains the support for Trump. They feel that the Republicans repeatedly sell out. Let me just quote this surprisingly good CNN article to straighten you out:

"The American people voted Republicans back into the majority of both houses of Congress specifically to stand up to President Obama's big-government, progressive agenda. Many voters were concerned about trillions in additional debt, the burdensome Obamacare mandates, executive overreach on immigration and an anemic economic recovery on Obama's watch.

Where has the pushback been? Republicans may have regained Congress, but Republican voters feel betrayed. They perceive a lack of action to stop the President's agenda, GOP leaders wheeling and dealing with Obama on budget compromises like the "cromnibus," and their tendency to roll over anytime they are challenged by the President."


If it's not clear to you already I'll repeat this.. I'm for small government. I don't like the idea of the state interfering with either my financial or social life. I am hardly an Obama supporter. I am however independent minded enough to determine which parts of any parties policies I choose to support and which I don't. I used to be a banker at Goldman Sachs, and I left to trade at a hedge fund. Now I run my own business, quite successfully. I am hardly your typical Obama supporter. The idea of me supporting the Labour party in my country makes me shudder. So I find some of your comments very funny, but quite revealing about yourself (and it's not a good look mate).

You may not support Obama when it comes to big government but you agree with him on his unscientific and ahistorical egalitarianism, his anti-Christian Islamophilia, and his cultural Marxism. That you may not like some big government economic policies in America or Europe is trivial by comparison. Economic issues are significant but they are not the most important matters.

The combination of the Christian right and fiscal conservatives was never something I particularly liked, but it was tolerable. But over the last 2 decades (and for me it got worse after Gingrich), the GOP has constructed a narrative that is based increasingly on personality and not policy.

I entirely disagree. The GOP-neocon platform is very clear to anyone who looks beneath the surface. The main concern of the GOP establishment is foreign policy in pursuit of "universal democracy" coupled with a vigorous assertion of the American-Israeli alliance in conjunction with trade and immigration policies that favor the rich Republican donors. Trump is hated by the GOP establishment because he dissents on their foreign policy approach and also says that he would like to realign trade deals and control the border. The Republican platform has been entirely clear. Just pay attention to what the likes of McCain or Graham or Rubio are saying. They want us to attack Iran, invade multiple countries, saber rattle against Russia, and maintain the economic status quo for the very wealthy.

It is Obama's prerogative to select the new Supreme Court justice, but these candidates either don't understand the Constitution or are being so childish they refuse to respect it.

The Democrats have no respect for the Constitution and have not for 50 years. Why would you be sanctimonious about something so trivial?

The article I posted delves into some of the same issues. For some bizarre reason you don't want to focus on the substance of the guy's editorial, but rather talk about his Iraq record. Who cares??

Because I consider being a leading neocon proponent of the Iraq war an inexcusable intellectual failing. It is a black mark. But I will write up a full response to the editorial in the coming days when I have time.

Sadly none of us on this forum know if you agree that Republican strategies have led to Trump's run for the Presidency, an interesting topic in itself.

Republican strategies of the last twenty years have nothing to do with Trump's rise except that what Trump is doing is a reaction against the Republican Party, which is why the Republican Party is so opposed to him. The GOP elites hate him. Trump is not an extension of the GOP but a reaction against it. Now - the main two issues that have given Trump popularity are his positions on illegal immigration and trade policy, both of which are issues that the Republicans have skirted in favor of calling for new wars on Iran and Russia.
 
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Moxie

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The word is "cite", not "site". I recommend that you learn how to speak English before you try communicating with it on a high level. You know nothing about Islam or any issue of significance. You are a total ignoramus. Sorry that I cited statistics you can't bear to face, or that I list Islamic terrorist attacks you wish had never happened. I just recommend that you read a couple hadiths so you aren't so ignorant of Islam. The dirty secret about people like yourself is that not only is your education completely superficial, but the main reason you take the positions you do is to provide yourself moral satisfaction. Nothing you suggest or believe in has ever helped a minority anywhere. You are just a standard, effeminate modern white leftist with a cheap "education" and boatloads of prejudice injected in your brain.
Ever the elegant and generous conversationalist.

No wonder you like Drumpf.
 
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calitennis127

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Ever the elegant and generous conversationalist.

No wonder you like Drumpf.

The difference being, I know much more than Trump and can intellectually justify my positions. If I was on stage, I would tear the neocon ideas to pieces and no one would have any doubts about whose ideas are more logical. Trump has to resort to slogans and repetitive promises. His controversial ideas are right but he usually doesn't present serious arguments or facts to justify them (and, alas, there are so many out there to choose from). I would have a field day with Rubio and especially Kasich. I detest Kasich and I would make him look like the biggest dolt you could imagine whenever he opens his mouth on foreign policy.

Also, I have made numerous substantive points on this thread which you have had no refutation for, because you do not know what to say. That is fine, but don't single out one moment of invective and talk like that's all I have been doing. That is inaccurate. Also, I was not the one who moved this conversation in that direction; it was Federberg. I was presenting arguments and then he injected a short insulting reply. I was only responding to it. Stop applying double standards, like your double standard of asking for Trump to disavow David Duke 95 times when David Duke is totally irrelevant and nonviolent, while it is okay for Democrats to kiss up to Al Sharpton after he has started anti-Semitic riots and caused harm to numerous lives.
 
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Moxie

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The difference being, I know much more than Trump and can intellectually justify my positions. If I was on stage, I would tear the neocon ideas to pieces and no one would have any doubts about whose ideas are more logical. Trump has to resort to slogans and repetitive promises. His controversial ideas are right but he usually doesn't present serious arguments or facts to justify them (and, alas, there are so many out there to choose from). I would have a field day with Rubio and especially Kasich. I detest Kasich and I would make him look like the biggest dolt you could imagine whenever he opens his mouth on foreign policy.

Also, I have made numerous substantive points on this thread which you have had no refutation for, because you do not know what to say. That is fine, but don't single out one moment of invective and talk like that's all I have been doing. That is inaccurate. Also, I was not the one who moved this conversation in that direction; it was Federberg. I was presenting arguments and then he injected a short insulting reply. I was only responding to it. Stop applying double standards, like your double standard of asking for Trump to disavow David Duke 95 times when David Duke is totally irrelevant and nonviolent, while it is okay for Democrats to kiss up to Al Sharpton after he has started anti-Semitic riots and caused harm to numerous lives.

Wow, you ARE Donald Trump. Drumpf. Harrumph.

I have no interest in engaging you on your self-described 'substantive points.' And it's rather rich of you to take pique at Federberg for injecting a "short insulting reply." LOL. I'd have to dig back far to find a post of yours that didn't include a snide insult. Or 5. You're as thin-skinned as The Donald. And as much of a bully. I've given up on ever having an interesting conversation with you. You're not fair, you're not generous, you don't acknowledge a single point that any one else makes, and you're insulting. It seems to me that, like Trump, you're deeply insecure about your position, and the only option is to push, insult and be a brute. If you were actually confident, you wouldn't have to be such a blowhard.
 
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Federberg

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Lol! Yes I do.

You clearly do not know much about the hadiths or else you would have a better understanding of Islam. You are simply believing the standard Islamophile, anti-Christian version of history and theology that is analogous to a cheap meal at McDonald's. No substance.

Cali, surely you must realise how poorly you come across? I don't know whether it's just immaturity, insecurity or something else. Dude you have some interesting things to say, it would be great for us to have a discussion, not a slanging match...
 

britbox

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Personally I find the US presidential race quite fascinating... I like your link on the basis that people are so sick and tired of vanilla politicians that Trump is attractive to a lot people.
 

Federberg

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Yes agree @britbox. I actually watched Trump's speech just after Romney's attempted takedown yesterday. It's strange, it was so self serving, but at the same time I found myself hugely entertained. He definitely has something. I sat there thinking I can see why people are attracted to him, even though I personally wouldn't fall for all the nonsense.
 

Moxie

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There is much to be fascinated by in this race. It is certainly good theatre. I'm not sure that people are tired of "vanilla" politicians, unless you're talking about the Republicans, which I guess we are here. On the right, there is a war against "political correctness," which is Trump's gambit, appealing to the disaffected whites and conservatives in this country, who feel they've lost some control and status, as social mores and the ethnic make-up in this country changes. (Not to mention the racist back-lash against an African-American President.) On the left, Bernie Sanders has gained much more traction than anyone anticipated because of a similar feeling that politics is "broken," and they see Hillary as part of the political machine. Trump and Sanders are the Janus Face of the general disgust with the roadblocks in government over the last 7 years.
 

Moxie

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Yes agree @britbox. I actually watched Trump's speech just after Romney's attempted takedown yesterday. It's strange, it was so self serving, but at the same time I found myself hugely entertained. He definitely has something. I sat there thinking I can see why people are attracted to him, even though I personally wouldn't fall for all the nonsense.
John Oliver addresses your fascination/disgust:

 

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I am shocked that anybody takes this clown (Trump) seriously. Is this the nomination for the worst president in american history.
 

Federberg

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I read an interesting article in the FT yesterday, where someone pointed out that some of Reagan's comments before his nomination led some to be fearful about what his presidency would be like. But even then.. those comments were put forth in a charming Reaganesque way. Not with the bluster and nastiness we see from the Donald. They also pointed out that Trump's negotiation strategy as a business man has been to map out a very unreasonable obnoxious stance to begin with but to end up compromising with a pragmatic solution. It's possible that Trump might not mean a lot of what he says, but this sets a disturbing president for future elections. Appealing to the worst of America will only damage the US abroad. This really feels like 'end of empire' times...