Did Djokovic really play that poorly?

[Front242]

Uh, when did I disagree that Novak can beat him? My question is, who else? Novak playing well or not is irrelevant, because my question is not about him (I have no doubt he can do it), my question is about others. Who could have realistically done it. Please give me names. I know Front is still hanging on to a retired guy who did it five years ago before getting his ass handed to him the next year, but, realistically, who?

Nalbandian without seven surgeries, a first-serve percentage below 50, and 14 double faults.

Not asking too much I guess

 

[calitennis127]

The thing about Nishikori and Gulbis is they don't fear the top players and it's refreshing to see. The lack of respect Gulbis has for them makes him a tough guy to play. Deep down he probably genuinely thinks he's better than them but needs to concentrate more. He's a cocky sob but he's entitled to be so, he's lost in most matches to Nadal by a single break in the 3rd set and this year he's a helluva lot better than before. Hence why I said today he'd have proven a tough opponent.

Front - if Gulbis can't win a match in Rome in which he hit 59 winners to Nadal's 13, I doubt he could beat him at Roland Garros where the winners are much tougher to come by against Nadal than anywhere else.

Just being honest here.

 

[Front242]

Remember Gulbis destroyed Nadal 6-1 at Rome last year in the first set.

 

[Front242]

The thing about Nishikori and Gulbis is they don't fear the top players and it's refreshing to see. The lack of respect Gulbis has for them makes him a tough guy to play. Deep down he probably genuinely thinks he's better than them but needs to concentrate more. He's a cocky sob but he's entitled to be so, he's lost in most matches to Nadal by a single break in the 3rd set and this year he's a helluva lot better than before. Hence why I said today he'd have proven a tough opponent.

Front - if Gulbis can't win a match in Rome in which he hit 59 winners to Nadal's 13, I doubt he could beat him at Roland Garros where the winners are much tougher to come by against Nadal than anywhere else.

Just being honest here.

I never said he'd win, I said he'd have proven a tough opponent and likely tougher than Djokovic was today but Gulbis this year is even better than last. Look at Nadal's h2h against him. Sure, he's never lost to him but those look convincing to you? http://www.matchstat.com/Compare/677/6848/9819

And bear in mind he's way better this year than in the past. As we're talking RG here, look at the ones on clay first.

 

[calitennis127]

Front, I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Gulbis doesn't have the defensive game of Djokovic and the conditions at RG suit Nadal's game better than Rome.

You keep insisting that Djokovic played so awfully today, but the fact is, he wasn't so far from winning. He could have very easily won the second set had he not gotten tired and served as poorly at the end of the set, and he was not far from taking the fourth either. The only set he was just completely out of for the most part was the third.

The issue for Djokovic was, once again, coping with the Nadal last stand. He failed to handle it in New York in the 3rd set, and he failed to handle it in the second set of the RG final. Hence, he lost a match he was not far from winning in both cases.

 

[TsarMatt]

I didn't think he played that poorly. Yes, he could have been better - but could have, should have, would have's just hurt your brain and can make you go crazy.

At the end of the day, it's how you play on the day, and Nadal was the better player and deserved to win.

Tennis is a hard sport. You can play so well for two weeks and play so well for months before that, but if you're not 'on' come the final, then it's over just like that.

 

[Front242]

Front, I'm sorry, I just don't see it. Gulbis doesn't have the defensive game of Djokovic and the conditions at RG suit Nadal's game better than Rome.

You keep insisting that Djokovic played so awfully today, but the fact is, he wasn't so far from winning. He could have very easily won the second set had he not gotten tired and served as poorly at the end of the set, and he was not far from taking the fourth either. The only set he was just completely out of for the most part was the third.

The issue for Djokovic was, once again, coping with the Nadal last stand. He failed to handle it in New York in the 3rd set, and he failed to handle it in the second set of the RG final. Hence, he lost a match he was not far from winning in both cases.

Yeah and being that's what makes it so awful, cali, like so many of his poor slam final losses the last few years. It was there for the taking but when he needed to play well he didn't so I can only insist he played very subpar much of the match and, frankly, most people would agree as we've all seen what he's capable of when he's playing well. Sadly for him and his fans, his slam final performances are a mere shadow of the level he produces in lesser tournaments and masters finals, bar 2011 of course. I'm not holding my breath on when that changes at this stage either unfortunately. Its not just against Nadal. He's been poor against Murray at slams too. It's something he desperately needs to address before it's too late. I hope he does.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Remember Gulbis destroyed Nadal 6-1 at Rome last year in the first set.

Remember that's not enough to win you a slam final.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Front, I wonder, if Gulbis couldn't beat an average Djokovic in hot conditions on Friday, how he was possibly going to be a significantly tough challenge for Nadal in even worse conditions...

 

[Front242]

^ To be honest, Broken I think he matches up better against Nadal. Sure, he's only beaten Novak once but compare this:

http://tennis.matchstat.com/Compare/6848/5992/10832 H2H with Novak

With this versus Rafa: http://www.matchstat.com/Compare/677/6848/9819

...and I think it's pretty obvious and fair to say he matches up a hell of a lot better against Nadal.

 

[Front242]

Remember Gulbis destroyed Nadal 6-1 at Rome last year in the first set.

Remember that's not enough to win you a slam final.

Well aware of that but I did only say he'd prove a tough opponent with the potential to win not outright claiming he'd definitely have beaten him today.

 

[markus1]

Djokovic played poorly because of his mindset (Roland Garros final - too much pressure) and he definitely did not feel good. However, he played first set pretty well, but then he was awful.

 

[Kieran]

Welcome, Markus!

I think people are being a bit harsh on Nole, I don't think he played "awful." He was clearly not well at a certain point, but up until then, he handled the tension better than Rafa did in the first. I thought he'd jack it up a bit in the second - Nole has a horrible habit of breaking Rafa at the start of sets since the US Open, a sure sign of confidence and dominance, but he didn't settle as much after winning the first as I'd expected. He didn't loosen up and swing freer. In fact, it was Rafa who began to pound his game and constrict Nole even more.

In the fourth, Novak did well to get back to 4-4, but Rafa played a humongous game on serve, digging deep and pulling out some extraordinarly aggressive tennis, even though he was visibly wilting.

From 30-0 at 4-5, Nole cramped a bit with pressure, and Rafa knew where and how to exert even more pressure. It was a brutal and tough and strange match. neither men's finest, but these finals are all about the "W", and in chasing that, Nole fell short of his best play, but to say he was "awful" is maybe a bit harsh....

 

[brokenshoelace]

All right, so to conclude:

Nadal is lucky he didn't play a reincarnated 2009 Soderling, a reincarnated 2009 Del Potro, a reincarnated May 2014 Nishikori, a hooker-free Gulbis, and a Karlovic/Nalbandian hybrid.

 

[Ricardo]

all these technically obsessed fans, just ridiculous. What does it matter Novak didn't play his best? that Nadal's win is not validated? all these player A at his best vs player B at his best nonsense is just stupid. Someone didn't play his best in a slam final? go and cry to your mama, it's normal.... gosh, useless fans.....sigh

 

[Ricardo]

Front, I wonder, if Gulbis couldn't beat an average Djokovic in hot conditions on Friday, how he was possibly going to be a significantly tough challenge for Nadal in even worse conditions...

Gulbis is obviously not as good as Novak, usually, but he can power through more than Novak. Ernie sort of under-performed on Friday, IMO... normal for his first semi, i think.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Front, I wonder, if Gulbis couldn't beat an average Djokovic in hot conditions on Friday, how he was possibly going to be a significantly tough challenge for Nadal in even worse conditions...

Gulbis is obviously not as good as Novak, usually, but he can power through more than Novak. Ernie sort of under-performed on Friday, IMO... normal for his first semi, i think.

He can, but he's also likely to produce way more unforced errors, will not turn rallies around if he gets on the backfoot, and his forehand, at some point, over the course of a potential 5 setter, will break down. Not to mention, he's not as fit as Novak. His aggression can also be his undoing, whereas Novak is more capable of playing within himself and dictating just the same.

Gulbis would have taken a set, probably. I'd honestly have been shocked if he'd done more. Again, people are really underestimating the conditions, and how much they suited Nadal's game and physicality (yeah, he was tired, but whatever opponent in front of him was always going to get more tired).

 

[Kieran]

I've a feeling Gulbis is about to become the new JJ, Kei, Dolgo, combined...

 

[brokenshoelace]

I just find it amazing how for about 3 years now, everyone's rightly talked about how Djokovic is the only man capable of beating Nadal at Roland Garros, and yet, when he hasn't done it, we get a laundry list of names who would have stood a better chance...two of which have never beaten Nadal in a combined 10+ meetings, on all surfaces.

 

[calitennis127]

No one said anything about Nalbandian mixing his game with another player.