Del Potro: should he have done better than Murray?

[mrzz]

Hard to post when we have a full blown revolution taking place here.

Hey man, hope you and yours are safe, and that you keep safe.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I haven't read all of the previous posts to this thread so I apologized if this has been said ..Big Men 6"-5 and above are always prone to getting injured because they're bigger and the tennis courts really take a toll on their bodies..JMDP was a big guy with tree trunk sized legs which just haven't been durable on the ATP.. Murray is a much better athletic type of body, more athletic player which put his defense in the upper tier of the top players..JMDP was a better power player but overall Andy is a much better all around tennis player.

 

[Bonaca]

I haven't read all of the previous posts to this thread so I apologized if this has been said ..Big Men 6"-5 and above are always prone to getting injured because they're bigger and the tennis courts really take a toll on their bodies..JMDP was a big guy with tree trunk sized legs which just haven't been durable on the ATP.. Murray is a much better athletic type of body, more athletic player which put his defense in the upper tier of the top players..JMDP was a better power player but overall Andy is a much better all around tennis player.

Well spoken Mr. Pusher. His bad luck is he is not only tall but also heavy, the weight is his biggest problem.
Daniil for example is also tall or Giraffe, but they will not have such injury problems.

 

[Moxie]

I have prejudice against Murray.

Off course that a counter puncher can have a lot of variety, but all of them will always seem to have it more than the others, because they are constantly being forced to use shots that would not use if they were in control of the point. Ok, if they are good counter punchers, they need to be at least ok in most shots. But a lot of players are, it is just that being more in control of points (even if they end up making an UFE), you have the choice of using the shot you are more comfortable with. In the end the shot selection is dictated by (the power of) choice.

I am not saying that Wawrinka or del Potro have "great" variety, just that the difference to a guy like Murray is not that big. Hard hitters can have some variety, as they can hit big from both wings, from different directions and with different angles -- even with different spins. Of course a lot of them will mostly close their eyes and hit a monster cross court. But this is not the case with both guy mentioned here. Wawrinka can do a lot of different things with his back hand, while del Po's forehand when is on is not only about power. He sometimes hit it with some odd outside spin which is pretty interesting.

About Murray, ok, he has variety to some degree. He has an extremely good lob as I already mentioned. His drop shot just got better (so that's a new dimension). A good slice (but he uses mostly as a defensive weapon). That's an OK variety. Really not in another league in comparison to del Potro.

Well, I knew it was a risk to take you on, in terms of your tennis knowledge, and it's a useful explanation, though it does seem inflected with prejudice.

 

[the AntiPusher]

Well spoken Mr. Pusher. His bad luck is he is not only tall but also heavy, the weight is his biggest problem.
Daniil for example is also tall or Giraffe, but they will not have such injury problems.

I totally agree, Medvedev should not experience the same difficulties with his body.

 

[Moxie]

I totally agree, Medvedev should not experience the same difficulties with his body.

I don't think the formula is that simple. Isner weighs like 250 lbs., and he hasn't been especially hampered by injury. And it's not like del Potro's injuries were about being a big guy or carrying weight. Some say is it because he hits the ball so hard, or not...who knows. But I don't see how wrist injuries are about being big. It all gets a bit muddled in terms of what we, here, think are indicators for injury: playing style, body-type. What do we know, really? Monfils is lean, but he plays a hard style, and has been much injured. Ferrer played a punishing style, but was not often injured. Medvedev is lean, but he hangs back and plays long points. Who knows which way it will go for him?

 

[Bonaca]

I don't think the formula is that simple. Isner weighs like 250 lbs., and he hasn't been especially hampered by injury. And it's not like del Potro's injuries were about being a big guy or carrying weight. Some say is it because he hits the ball so hard, or not...who knows. But I don't see how wrist injuries are about being big. It all gets a bit muddled in terms of what we, here, think are indicators for injury: playing style, body-type. What do we know, really? Monfils is lean, but he plays a hard style, and has been much injured. Ferrer played a punishing style, but was not often injured. Medvedev is lean, but he hangs back and plays long points. Who knows which way it will go for him?

Surely there are more factors about that, and exceptions like Kei and the ones you mentioned. I think Thiem will also be in this category, seems too fragile for me. We will see.
But Juan has bad conditions looking at that.
Don’t know the stats about Isner, maybe he played less rallies or his play style helped him.

 

[Jelenafan]

Don’t know the stats about Isner, maybe he played less rallies or his play style helped him.

Well considering he won’t run more than a few feet to save his life In any single point might have something to do with how Isner has avoided more injuries in his career.

 

[Moxie]

Surely there are more factors about that, and exceptions like Kei and the ones you mentioned. I think Thiem will also be in this category, seems too fragile for me. We will see.
But Juan has bad conditions looking at that.
Don’t know the stats about Isner, maybe he played less rallies or his play style helped him.

Yes, there are a lot of factors. That's the point. And we don't understand them all. But why is Kei an exception, then, is the question? And you can think that Thiem might be fragile, but there's not really anything to support it now. Do you see my point? We all love to say that playing style or body type have to do with injuries, but it doesn't seem to prove out that way, if you really look at it.

 

[Bonaca]

Yes, there are a lot of factors. That's the point. And we don't understand them all. But why is Kei an exception, then, is the question? And you can think that Thiem might be fragile, but there's not really anything to support it now. Do you see my point? We all love to say that playing style or body type have to do with injuries, but it doesn't seem to prove out that way, if you really look at it.

You are right. Not overall, too many factors too different individuals.
We picked a few players, nothing there to generalize.

 

[the AntiPusher]

I don't think the formula is that simple. Isner weighs like 250 lbs., and he hasn't been especially hampered by injury. And it's not like del Potro's injuries were about being a big guy or carrying weight. Some say is it because he hits the ball so hard, or not...who knows. But I don't see how wrist injuries are about being big. It all gets a bit muddled in terms of what we, here, think are indicators for injury: playing style, body-type. What do we know, really? Monfils is lean, but he plays a hard style, and has been much injured. Ferrer played a punishing style, but was not often injured. Medvedev is lean, but he hangs back and plays long points. Who knows which way it will go for him?

I don't think Gael is not training as hard as Murray, Djokervic, Ferrer and Nadal. I think Monfils trains harder than Kyrigios but that's like saying because Trump is so called billionaire that he is intelligence which he isn't.. Monfils gets by because he is tremendously athletic when he was younger..As he gets older he will have to take care of his body or he will fade away like TByrd.

 

[Moxie]

I don't think Gael is not training as hard as Murray, Djokervic, Ferrer and Nadal. I think Monfils trains harder than Kyrigios but that's like saying because Trump is so called billionaire that he is intelligence which he isn't.. Monfils gets by because he is tremendously athletic when he was younger..As he gets older he will have to take care of his body or he will fade away like TByrd.

This is nothing about training. The larger question is: can we make sweeping statements about how much players' get injured or stay healthy based on playing style/body type. I'm saying no.

 

[Front242]

Monfils used to do a lot of really high spectacular albeit really stupid crazy dives earlier in his career often landing really awkwardly which have likely done his body no good imo, plus his cardio has always been really, really bad and when you're fatigued your body is more susceptible to injury.

 

[the AntiPusher]

This is nothing about training. The larger question is: can we make sweeping statements about how much players' get injured or stay healthy based on playing style/body type. I'm saying no.

If we look at Roger's body type I think it's fair to say if you have lean elongated muscles and you take care of yourself, you may and can laat. Roger however is the unicorn. That's all from me..Front is better on this subject than I..I defer to him
.

 

[Jelenafan]

Maybe I’m imagining this but didn’t some players get back issues due to their serving motion, in particular using the twist serve a lot?

 

[Fiero425]

Maybe I’m imagining this but didn’t some players get back issues due to their serving motion, in particular using the twist serve a lot?

Edberg serving comes to mind! My back ached just watching that motion over and over again! The idea behind Stefan's twist serve was to make sure he had a high 1st serve percentage and was foregoing as many free points thru aces! I'll take the aces and other free points on serve any time rather than force a great S/V combo! :whistle:

 

[mrzz]

Maybe I’m imagining this but didn’t some players get back issues due to their serving motion, in particular using the twist serve a lot?

I guess anything that requires a toss that leans to the left (for a right hander) will stress the back to some extent.

 

[mrzz]

though it does seem inflected with prejudice.

Here is a question I have thought about for a while: what do you think it is easier, to compensate against the negative bias you have against a player you dislike, or the positive you have in favor of one you like?

 

[Moxie]

Here is a question I have thought about for a while: what do you think it is easier, to compensate against the negative bias you have against a player you dislike, or the positive you have in favor of one you like?

Interesting question. Personally, I'd say it's easier to compensate for negative bias, as I am more dispassionate. What would you say? I will also say that I think there are people with such a strong negative bias, and such entrenched opinions, that they don't manage bias well in either direction.

 

[mrzz]

Interesting question. Personally, I'd say it's easier to compensate for negative bias, as I am more dispassionate. What would you say? I will also say that I think there are people with such a strong negative bias, and such entrenched opinions, that they don't manage bias well in either direction.

I agree it varies from person to person. After thinking about it, in my personal case I find it easier to compensate for negative bias. I just need to say to myself something like "c/mon, just look at the what the guy is doing" and I believe I can have a reasonably objective assessment of, for example, Zverev's backhand (extremely good, btw).

The big problem with positive bias is not eliminating or compensating it, but rather identifying it in the first place. Those shots from your favorite player, they seem so perfect - they are rather ordinary, but they are perfect to your eyes. We can see things which simply are not there... I personally find it harder to deal with (but I believe I finally got the grips of it).

This happens in everyday life. Your pals from the club, they all play so well. That son of a bitch you hate? Can't even hold the racquet properly.