Covid vaccine - opinions?

[El Dude]

Guess I'll put this here. A classmate from high school posted this on our Reunion FB page yesterday:
View attachment 7231

There are a million different anecdotes about covid and what it was like. Different people have different experiences. We tend to pick out stuff that re-affirms what we already believe (aka "confirmation bias") so if you're fearful of covid and see someone saying how bad it is, it will click for you; and vice versa. But for every picture like that, I see plenty that say the opposite. I also don't see a clear pattern with vaxxed people getting less sick, or covid less frequently, than the unvaxxed, and the data varies, depending upon where you look and who you trust.

Most people have had covid. Not sure the exactly percentages, but it is high. I had it and it was a mild flu for a few days. The worst of it was about 12 hours of extreme fatigue, then just some tiredness and a very mild scratchy throat. I've had worse colds. Other people have different experiences.

 

[Kieran]

There are a million different anecdotes about covid and what it was like. Different people have different experiences. We tend to pick out stuff that re-affirms what we already believe (aka "confirmation bias") so if you're fearful of covid and see someone saying how bad it is, it will click for you; and vice versa. But for every picture like that, I see plenty that say the opposite. I also don't see a clear pattern with vaxxed people getting less sick, or covid less frequently, than the unvaxxed, and the data varies, depending upon where you look and who you trust.

Most people have had covid. Not sure the exactly percentages, but it is high. I had it and it was a mild flu for a few days. The worst of it was about 12 hours of extreme fatigue, then just some tiredness and a very mild scratchy throat. I've had worse colds. Other people have different experiences.

I think the truth about this virus - from a scientific angle - probably won’t be clear for years, and it’s been so politically weaponised, it may not be made public for decades. Likewise, the vaccines, clearly which aren’t doing what they promised to do, although I think they have had some positive effects. We can’t know yet if there are long term negative effects.

It’s obvious that the producers of the vaccines don’t know how they work, or didn’t know, when they first produced them. And so I hope the largest market for the vaccines, where I live as a member of the EU, has kept the receipt on the first batch, and isn’t continuously getting stiffed for all the subsequent batches. It’s the most unfortunate thing of being a member of the EU, however, is that you know that corruption holds more sway than its humble members.

How many jabs have people gotten now? And how many do they expect to get? A good friend of mine from Indianapolis is young, fit and healthy, and she got her flu jab last week, alongside her fourth covid jab, which was bad timing because it clobbered her. She’d previously told me that in America they give flu jabs to children as young as five? Her nieces have been jabbed at that age. This is a very unhealthy way of going about keeping people healthy, and a terrible abusive thing to inflict on an infant who is better off to face the flu and build their own resistance to it.

By the way, has Biden announced that the pandemic is over in the US? If so, is there any end in sight to their travel restrictions?

 

[El Dude]

I think the truth about this virus - from a scientific angle - probably won’t be clear for years, and it’s been so politically weaponised, it may not be made public for decades. Likewise, the vaccines, clearly which aren’t doing what they promised to do, although I think they have had some positive effects. We can’t know yet if there are long term negative effects.

It’s obvious that the producers of the vaccines don’t know how they work, or didn’t know, when they first produced them. And so I hope the largest market for the vaccines, where I live as a member of the EU, has kept the receipt on the first batch, and isn’t continuously getting stiffed for all the subsequent batches. It’s the most unfortunate thing of being a member of the EU, however, is that you know that corruption holds more sway than its humble members.

How many jabs have people gotten now? And how many do they expect to get? A good friend of mine from Indianapolis is young, fit and healthy, and she got her flu jab last week, alongside her fourth covid jab, which was bad timing because it clobbered her. She’d previously told me that in America they give flu jabs to children as young as five? Her nieces have been jabbed at that age. This is a very unhealthy way of going about keeping people healthy, and a terrible abusive thing to inflict on an infant who is better off to face the flu and build their own resistance to it.

By the way, has Biden announced that the pandemic is over in the US? If so, is there any end in sight to their travel restrictions?

Yeah, I agree. It is really quite frustrating how unclear the situation is. The mainstream American media is still not talking about excess mortality rates and such, or anything other than "get your vaccine." Still, little bits are starting to slip out, and staunch advocates of "vaccinate or die" are now saying things like "maybe you don't need to get a vaccine/booster if you're young and healthy." It is hard to ignore and/or censor the large number of young folks requiring heart medicine, among other things, not to mention that we didn't experience the Winter of Unvaxxed Death that Biden promised .

It seems that--at the very least--the "Great Barrington" folks (who Fauci censored early on) were right: that the approach should have been protecting the most at risk and more focus on treatment protocols, rather than hurried mass vaccination and lockdowns. I don't know how anyone can deny that their approach was more than just fear-based, but politically and economically motivated. But the level of denial is still rather shocking: I keep seeing comments like, "I'm quadruple vaxxed, have been masking and social distancing, and just got Covid for the umpteenth time. I'm so angry that some people aren't doing their part." LOL.

Yeah, Biden said in an interview that "the pandemic is over," which upset a lot of people, and I think his people walked it back a bit (as they often have to do). Not sure about travel restrictions, though.

 

[britbox]

Unpopular opinion, but the whole thing was a planned event... as will be the entire crash of the financial system.

 

[Kieran]

Yeah, I agree. It is really quite frustrating how unclear the situation is. The mainstream American media is still not talking about excess mortality rates and such, or anything other than "get your vaccine." Still, little bits are starting to slip out, and staunch advocates of "vaccinate or die" are now saying things like "maybe you don't need to get a vaccine/booster if you're young and healthy." It is hard to ignore and/or censor the large number of young folks requiring heart medicine, among other things, not to mention that we didn't experience the Winter of Unvaxxed Death that Biden promised .

It seems that--at the very least--the "Great Barrington" folks (who Fauci censored early on) were right: that the approach should have been protecting the most at risk and more focus on treatment protocols, rather than hurried mass vaccination and lockdowns. I don't know how anyone can deny that their approach was more than just fear-based, but politically and economically motivated. But the level of denial is still rather shocking: I keep seeing comments like, "I'm quadruple vaxxed, have been masking and social distancing, and just got Covid for the umpteenth time. I'm so angry that some people aren't doing their part." LOL.

That’s hilarious! We don’t hear that so much over here, or in Europe generally. We’re getting on with things and not arguing about covid any more. Putin has thrown a plague of a different sort on us, one that’s far more pressing and dangerous. But of course, if you’re quintuply jabbed, but still catching a bad dose, why are you bothered by what others are doing? Look at yourself and your jab provider.

There will come an issue with talking too many jabs, which is the same issue that will happen to people who are jabbing 5 year olds, and that is that your immune system will take the rest of your life off eventually, and you’ll be fecked. We should trust ourselves more, and certainly I’m glad that we’re not medication freaks in Ireland, as America seems to be. They overmedicate and overly rely on big pharma to cure their lives of what are generally just human stuff.

Yeah, Biden said in an interview that "the pandemic is over," which upset a lot of people, and I think his people walked it back a bit (as they often have to do). Not sure about travel restrictions, though.

Of course, if he thinks the pandemic is over, he should lift the travel restrictions, right? His people walking it back only suggests to us who’s really in control there, and it’s likely a good thing that he has them…

 

[El Dude]

Unpopular opinion, but the whole thing was a planned event... as will be the entire crash of the financial system.

I tend to agree with you, or at least veer in that direction. I think there are "layers" of this, and I'm not sure where I land....

1. It was so hard, everyone did the best they could, Fauci's a hero (and I'll always cherish my Fauci giftbox).
2. The whole thing was handled poorly, because the institutions and people involved are inept, but there was no significant malfeasance.
3. The whole thing was exploited (for money/power), because the institutions and people involved are corrupt, and decisions were made for economic and political reasons over public well-being.
4. The whole thing was orchestrated, as part of a transformation of society towards greater centralized control (e.g. Great Reset), regardless of the cost to normal people.
5. The whole thing was orchestrated, for even more nefarious and psychopathic agendas (de-population, mass sterilization, further reliance on Big Pharma, etc).
6. Lizard people!

I think the weight of society has moved from 1 to 2, with many veering towards 3, even if mainstream media is still on 1 (though with hints of 2). Depending upon the moment, I tend to range from 3 to 5, with occasional moments of 6. But I'd say 1 is patently absurd, and 2 rather naive. 3 would be my baseline for "at the very least."

 

[El Dude]

That’s hilarious! We don’t hear that so much over here, or in Europe generally. We’re getting on with things and not arguing about covid any more. Putin has thrown a plague of a different sort on us, one that’s far more pressing and dangerous. But of course, if you’re quintuply jabbed, but still catching a bad dose, why are you bothered by what others are doing? Look at yourself and your jab provider.

I won't get into Putin and Ukraine, as I tend towards feeling that NATO/the US has a huge share of the responsibility in this (meaning, I tend to agree with your PMs, Clare Daly and Mick Wallace). But I agree that the situation is far more pressing and dangerous. But that's a topic for another thread.

I see people run around in circles looking to re-affirm their trust in Big Science (aka Big Pharma) and justify their stance. I think the current logic is that the vax is more good than bad, and that--at the least--it (and masking) slows the spread. I think it is a bit ludicrous at this point, but I think that's what they're thinking.

There will come an issue with talking too many jabs, which is the same issue that will happen to people who are jabbing 5 year olds, and that is that your immune system will take the rest of your life off eventually, and you’ll be fecked. We should trust ourselves more, and certainly I’m glad that we’re not medication freaks in Ireland, as America seems to be. They overmedicate and overly rely on big pharma to cure their lives of what are generally just human stuff.

Of course, if he thinks the pandemic is over, he should lift the travel restrictions, right? His people walking it back only suggests to us who’s really in control there, and it’s likely a good thing that he has them…

Some people think we're already there. Given the shitstorm that is the datasphere, who knows, but I've heard the view--and seen people back it up with studies and numbers--that the vax is already damaging immune systems, and the more shots you get, the more likely you are to get repeat cases and/or recover more slowly and/or get "long covid." Again, who the fuck knows.

But I 100% agree that we should trust ourselves more. One silver lining in all of this is that it has made more people question Big Pharma and the whole institution of modern (profit-based) medicine. I can't tell you how many people I've seen say something to the effect, "I was pro-vax before this, but now I'm questioning everything." Regardless of the efficacy of vaccines in general, I think this attitude of questioning everything--especially received knowledge, and most especially received medical knowledge--is very healthy.

 

[Kieran]

I won't get into Putin and Ukraine…

And then you agree with two professional contrarian halfwits.

I see people run around in circles looking to re-affirm their trust in Big Science (aka Big Pharma) and justify their stance. I think the current logic is that the vax is more good than bad, and that--at the least--it (and masking) slows the spread. I think it is a bit ludicrous at this point, but I think that's what they're thinking.


Some people think we're already there. Given the shitstorm that is the datasphere, who knows, but I've heard the view--and seen people back it up with studies and numbers--that the vax is already damaging immune systems, and the more shots you get, the more likely you are to get repeat cases and/or recover more slowly and/or get "long covid." Again, who the fuck knows.

I think the problem has been exacerbated by people like Fauci, and the power they gained during covid. “I am science,” indeed. There’s also the strange marriage of the far left and huge pharmaceutical corporations, who are parasitic in nature. Also, all the social media platforms who banned alternate takes supported the establishment in all their mistakes, and this was the huge difficulty, in even trying to have a discussion. False ideas of compassion. Wear a mask or you’re killing granny. We got that over here too, this absurd idea that granny was in the crosshairs every time a young child sneezed, when in fact the statistics show that people in their 80’s have a solid chance of surviving the bug.

A certain form of totalitarianism took over, but I think now people are shaking it off. I got vaccinated and don’t regret it, but I know there m long term risks with the vaccines that we won’t know about until we wake up dead, or with a shrunken head, or something, further down the line. Most of the people I know who were also the most terrified of the bug and the most virulent defenders of the vaccines have since toned it down a few notches.

But I 100% agree that we should trust ourselves more. One silver lining in all of this is that it has made more people question Big Pharma and the whole institution of modern (profit-based) medicine. I can't tell you how many people I've seen say something to the effect, "I was pro-vax before this, but now I'm questioning everything." Regardless of the efficacy of vaccines in general, I think this attitude of questioning everything--especially received knowledge, and most especially received medical knowledge--is very healthy.

I tend to admire people who think for themselves, and especially when it comes to looking after their health. The vaccine was the first non-natural “medicine” I took in twenty years. I remember getting ibuprofen in the pharmacy about twenty years ago for a shoulder injury that had me in agony. The pain was awful, but I took only one tablet and worked hard to get the shoulder to loosen up. I think overmedication is a form of control and abuse, and it’s terrifying how complicit people are in it. It’s as if they’re allergic to life itself and need to be medicated against every nonexistent threat to their comfort.

Giving flu and covid jabs to five year olds is unscientific medical abuse…

 

[Kieran]

I tend to agree with you, or at least veer in that direction. I think there are "layers" of this, and I'm not sure where I land....

1. It was so hard, everyone did the best they could, Fauci's a hero (and I'll always cherish my Fauci giftbox).
2. The whole thing was handled poorly, because the institutions and people involved are inept, but there was no significant malfeasance.
3. The whole thing was exploited (for money/power), because the institutions and people involved are corrupt, and decisions were made for economic and political reasons over public well-being.
4. The whole thing was orchestrated, as part of a transformation of society towards greater centralized control (e.g. Great Reset), regardless of the cost to normal people.
5. The whole thing was orchestrated, for even more nefarious and psychopathic agendas (de-population, mass sterilization, further reliance on Big Pharma, etc).
6. Lizard people!

I think the weight of society has moved from 1 to 2, with many veering towards 3, even if mainstream media is still on 1 (though with hints of 2). Depending upon the moment, I tend to range from 3 to 5, with occasional moments of 6. But I'd say 1 is patently absurd, and 2 rather naive. 3 would be my baseline for "at the very least."

I’d go a mix of 2 and 3 here but when the film is eventually released, I also want number 6 included, and in a leading role…

 

[El Dude]

And then you agree with two professional contrarian halfwits.

We'll just have to agree to disagree - and that without even really getting into it. But I can hope that you'll eventually come around to how you've been propagandized, just like you did with covid .

I think the problem has been exacerbated by people like Fauci, and the power they gained during covid. “I am science,” indeed. There’s also the strange marriage of the far left and huge pharmaceutical corporations, who are parasitic in nature. Also, all the social media platforms who banned alternate takes supported the establishment in all their mistakes, and this was the huge difficulty, in even trying to have a discussion. False ideas of compassion. Wear a mask or you’re killing granny. We got that over here too, this absurd idea that granny was in the crosshairs every time a young child sneezed, when in fact the statistics show that people in their 80’s have a solid chance of surviving the bug.

As someone who has traditionally been on the left, even "far left," the whole thing has been quite baffling. One minute we were skeptical of Big Pharma, the next some were getting Pfizer and Moderna tattoos. We used to be for civil liberties (freedom of speech), then we wanted everyone censored. We used to be about tolerance, now anyone who doesn't agree is a nazi. Etc, etc.

I think a lot of it has to do with Trump - he seemed to fry the brains of not only his devotees, but the many who despite him. Further polarization, and everyone is either on this side or that; in the US, Team Blue or Team Red.

The horrible thing is this is exactly how ruling (and authoritarian) governments maintain power: divide the people, set them against each other, and reap the benefits.

As far as covid goes, there was immense propaganda, from fearmongering infographics (the death count on every cable news station), dubious images from China, etc, to catch-phrases like "Trust the Science" irregardless of the contrary and absurd nature of such a statement. "Trust the Science" really means Trust Certain Scientists, and really only those who work for Big Pharma.

The censorship is perhaps the most worrisome aspect of this, and it goes back to Fauci et al literally blocking the Great Barrington folks, as revealed by emails. But it was all-pervasive. There was a point in which someone couldn't even say on Youtube, "Taking vitamin C may help your immune system better handle covid" - or even more innocuous things than that.

What perhaps baffles me the most was when Pfizer tried to block the opening of their trials for 75 years. I mean, if you weren't skeptical before, that should have done it. But for many it didn't, because...Trust the Science!

A certain form of totalitarianism took over, but I think now people are shaking it off. I got vaccinated and don’t regret it, but I know there m long term risks with the vaccines that we won’t know about until we wake up dead, or with a shrunken head, or something, further down the line. Most of the people I know who were also the most terrified of the bug and the most virulent defenders of the vaccines have since toned it down a few notches.

A shrunken might do you a bit of good, my friend. Haha. But yeah, my girlfriend feels similar to you, although is less skeptical of the vax. But she doesn't regret it, but won't take more.

As far as the long-term is concerned, I think the view of those who think it is harmful is that "the less the better." But we shall see. I certainly hope that I and others who think it might be harmful long-term are wrong!

I tend to admire people who think for themselves, and especially when it comes to looking after their health. The vaccine was the first non-natural “medicine” I took in twenty years. I remember getting ibuprofen in the pharmacy about twenty years ago for a shoulder injury that had me in agony. The pain was awful, but I took only one tablet and worked hard to get the shoulder to loosen up. I think overmedication is a form of control and abuse, and it’s terrifying how complicit people are in it. It’s as if they’re allergic to life itself and need to be medicated against every nonexistent threat to their comfort.

Giving flu and covid jabs to five year olds is unscientific medical abuse…

Yep. And I'm similar, re: medicine.

 

[Kieran]

We'll just have to agree to disagree - and that without even really getting into it. But I can hope that you'll eventually come around to how you've been propagandized, just like you did with covid .

Hmm. Being warned against propaganda by somebody who believes Daly and Wallace.

But as you keep insisting, that’s not the topic for this thread. I agree.

By the way, I don’t regret getting jabbed, and I know statistically that it’s done some good, but I’m opposed to the way it’s gotten out of control, and the way that big pharma/the left have weaponised it against everyone.

As someone who has traditionally been on the left, even "far left," the whole thing has been quite baffling. One minute we were skeptical of Big Pharma, the next some were getting Pfizer and Moderna tattoos. We used to be for civil liberties (freedom of speech), then we wanted everyone censored. We used to be about tolerance, now anyone who doesn't agree is a nazi. Etc, etc.

I think a lot of it has to do with Trump - he seemed to fry the brains of not only his devotees, but the many who despite him. Further polarization, and everyone is either on this side or that; in the US, Team Blue or Team Red.

Okay, I wonder about this. I agree with you largely, and just how promiscuous the far left have been in hopping into bed with big greedy corporations, both pharmaceutical and media, has been a spectacle that isn’t really surprising, but it has been strange to witness the full embracing extent of it. As I say, it’s a form of totalitarianism and this will be one that’s difficult to shift. As you said above , when people disagree, they’re labelled as Nazis etc. I have a cousin who lives in Canada and she’s often like that. People who disagree with her worldview are routinely dismissed as bigots, Nazis, racists. She has no other way of thinking and unsurprisingly, she never questions her worldview. It would physically pain her to do so.

This much is common, but I’m wondering to what extent we can blame Trump. We can definitely blame him for a lot of things, I’m no admirer, but haven’t the left been intolerant of differing views in this way since a long time before Trump? I remember some scary stuff in Ireland during the same-sex marriage referendum, told to me by a law professor friend of mine. He said an email had whizzed about the offices saying that they “must do something” about a law journalist from a popular broadsheet who had questioned whether the Gaelic translation of the proposed act said exactly the same thing as the English version. Because he questioned this, bizarrely he was labelled a homophobe. This was more than a year before Trump and my professor pal said back then that the universities were rife with this stuff.

The horrible thing is this is exactly how ruling (and authoritarian) governments maintain power: divide the people, set them against each other, and reap the benefits.


As far as covid goes, there was immense propaganda, from fearmongering infographics (the death count on every cable news station), dubious images from China, etc, to catch-phrases like "Trust the Science" irregardless of the contrary and absurd nature of such a statement. "Trust the Science" really means Trust Certain Scientists, and really only those who work for Big Pharma.

The one thing the bad players in all big issues are good with is language, unfortunately. They come up with labels real quick. Catchy phrases that slip through unchecked: “trust the science” is only one, but we’ve been bombarded by propagandist nonsense regarding all the divisive issues for years now, all arriving tucked up neatly in some pithy nonsensical phrase. Trust the science - but the science is excluding itself from scrutiny for 75 years? But…doesn’t it trust itself?

The censorship is perhaps the most worrisome aspect of this, and it goes back to Fauci et al literally blocking the Great Barrington folks, as revealed by emails. But it was all-pervasive. There was a point in which someone couldn't even say on Youtube, "Taking vitamin C may help your immune system better handle covid" - or even more innocuous things than that.

Yeah, the censorship and the fact that social media corporations rules and regulations are basically political manifesto handbooks. They’re slanted in favour of one side, so that five years ago anything that was obviously true (“a woman is an adult biological female”) is prohibited now. Just one small example. Covid released a whole bunch of these troll-like rules. Trigger warnings on Joe Rogan episodes? Because he’s talking to someone? Really Orwellian.

A shrunken might do you a bit of good, my friend.

The missus wakes up every morning with a measuring tape, hoping it’s happened.

She’s a medical herbalist and she didn’t get vaccinated. She’s not against people getting the jab but she’s very solid when it comes to diet, supplements, exercise, taking control of your own health, putting as little unnatural medicines as possible into your body.

But yeah, my girlfriend feels similar to you, although is less skeptical of the vax. But she doesn't regret it, but won't take more.

Exactly. It’s kinda getting ridiculous now because I got my second jab in June 2021 but there are people now on their fourth. It wasn’t a rhetorical question I asked, when I asked how many jabs will people accept. I’m curious about it.

As far as the long-term is concerned, I think the view of those who think it is harmful is that "the less the better." But we shall see. I certainly hope that I and others who think it might be harmful long-term are wrong!

Except for my head size, eh? If I wake up some morning with a pimple on top of my neck, and a squeaky voice, I’ll know not to tell anyone here…

 

[El Dude]

Okay, I wonder about this. I agree with you largely, and just how promiscuous the far left have been in hopping into bed with big greedy corporations, both pharmaceutical and media, has been a spectacle that isn’t really surprising, but it has been strange to witness the full embracing extent of it. As I say, it’s a form of totalitarianism and this will be one that’s difficult to shift. As you said above , when people disagree, they’re labelled as Nazis etc. I have a cousin who lives in Canada and she’s often like that. People who disagree with her worldview are routinely dismissed as bigots, Nazis, racists. She has no other way of thinking and unsurprisingly, she never questions her worldview. It would physically pain her to do so.

This much is common, but I’m wondering to what extent we can blame Trump. We can definitely blame him for a lot of things, I’m no admirer, but haven’t the left been intolerant of differing views in this way since a long time before Trump? I remember some scary stuff in Ireland during the same-sex marriage referendum, told to me by a law professor friend of mine. He said an email had whizzed about the offices saying that they “must do something” about a law journalist from a popular broadsheet who had questioned whether the Gaelic translation of the proposed act said exactly the same thing as the English version. Because he questioned this, bizarrely he was labelled a homophobe. This was more than a year before Trump and my professor pal said back then that the universities were rife with this stuff.

Definitely agree. A lot of this has been brewing for years, decades really. I remember the PC era of the late 80s/90s, and these cultural/academic trends go back to at least postmodernism in the 60s (which has some value, but it was taken to an extreme).

I think Trump just broke people, and worked to get people on the left on board with stuff they might not normally get on board with. If you create an enemy that seems so awful, you join up with people who seem more appealing, in relative terms. This was exacerbated by terribly biased coverage of Trump on most of the MSM networks. And of course now we know that the Democrats actually financially support far right candidates so that they (hopefully, they think) have an easier opponent to vanquish. They did that with Trump (he was one of their preferred opponents for Hillary to go up against, so pushed the networks to cover him more and enable his nomination), but everyone seems to ignore or forget that.

And of course ruling classes have been playing "divide and conquer" for millennia - and with their own citizenry. I tend to hold the view that Dems and Reps are just two arms of the same ruling party, just with different flavors to appeal to different demographics (roughly urban rural, or progressive vs. traditional). The wedge issues circulate and re-circulate so the people can point the finger at "them," without seeing the larger picture - of a predatory ruling class that uses government and media to propagandize and control. Meanwhile, the rich get richer, and everyone else gets shafted (or poorer).

And as someone has said, maybe Chomsky, the real main reason for the existence of the Democratic Party is to prevent actual progressive candidates and legislation. So they take in people like Bernie Sanders and AOC and the rest of the "Squad" to talk a progressive game so it seems like they care about the working class, but they continue to support bloated military budgets and barely move the needle in terms of policy.

The one thing the bad players in all big issues are good with is language, unfortunately. They come up with labels real quick. Catchy phrases that slip through unchecked: “trust the science” is only one, but we’ve been bombarded by propagandist nonsense regarding all the divisive issues for years now, all arriving tucked up neatly in some pithy nonsensical phrase. Trust the science - but the science is excluding itself from scrutiny for 75 years? But…doesn’t it trust itself?

Yep. Clever, no? But as I'm sure we both agree, they are words spoken with a forked tongue (lizard people!).

Yeah, the censorship and the fact that social media corporations rules and regulations are basically political manifesto handbooks. They’re slanted in favour of one side, so that five years ago anything that was obviously true (“a woman is an adult biological female”) is prohibited now. Just one small example. Covid released a whole bunch of these troll-like rules. Trigger warnings on Joe Rogan episodes? Because he’s talking to someone? Really Orwellian.

Yeah, it is really quite crazy - like that Ottawa teacher. The irony is there's actually a good amount of sexism involved. Any woman who dressed like that would be told to be more professional, but because it is a trans person, the school board is supporting their "identity" and "journey."

The missus wakes up every morning with a measuring tape, hoping it’s happened.

Wait, what is she measuring exactly?

She’s a medical herbalist and she didn’t get vaccinated. She’s not against people getting the jab but she’s very solid when it comes to diet, supplements, exercise, taking control of your own health, putting as little unnatural medicines as possible into your body.

Sounds great. Hey, what's her number?

Exactly. It’s kinda getting ridiculous now because I got my second jab in June 2021 but there are people now on their fourth. It wasn’t a rhetorical question I asked, when I asked how many jabs will people accept. I’m curious about it.

Except for my head size, eh? If I wake up some morning with a pimple on top of my neck, and a squeaky voice, I’ll know not to tell anyone here…

Haha. Yeah, but seriously, I don't know where it stops. Interestingly, it seems the Israeli people have had enough. I read that only like 3% are considered "fully vaccinated." They were at like 95% at one point, I think after the first shot or two. And of course Denmark is now no longer offering it for people under 50 unless they have a serious condition. Little cracks here and there.

 

[Kieran]

Definitely agree. A lot of this has been brewing for years, decades really. I remember the PC era of the late 80s/90s, and these cultural/academic trends go back to at least postmodernism in the 60s (which has some value, but it was taken to an extreme).

I think Trump just broke people, and worked to get people on the left on board with stuff they might not normally get on board with. If you create an enemy that seems so awful, you join up with people who seem more appealing, in relative terms. This was exacerbated by terribly biased coverage of Trump on most of the MSM networks. And of course now we know that the Democrats actually financially support far right candidates so that they (hopefully, they think) have an easier opponent to vanquish. They did that with Trump (he was one of their preferred opponents for Hillary to go up against, so pushed the networks to cover him more and enable his nomination), but everyone seems to ignore or forget that.

That’s interesting, I had forgotten that Trump was also a donor to the Democrats, was he? He certainly offended a lot of people, which is easy to understand. He’s a troll. But being so triggered by him has been counterproductive, and has contributed to the great divisions in politics.

In terms of PC culture and its evolution into derangement, the left has often been very sanctimonious, thinking itself the party of compassion, without realising that it’s compassion is often of the most false and dangerous sort. False compassion is doing a lot of harm now, while also not being very compassionate, funny enough. It then veers into virtue signalling, and at its worst it’s hideously intolerant of anyone who puts forward even a suggestion that maybe they could be wrong, while also being patronising and insulting to minorities.

I’ve faced that sort of intolerance here. The fact that I think Hillary and Biden are useless self-serving parasites obviously meant I was a Trumpist, which is an illogical conclusion to reach. A lot of the worst people of either wing of the political divide don’t even know what politics is, and don’t know why they believe what they

And of course ruling classes have been playing "divide and conquer" for millennia - and with their own citizenry. I tend to hold the view that Dems and Reps are just two arms of the same ruling party, just with different flavors to appeal to different demographics (roughly urban rural, or progressive vs. traditional). The wedge issues circulate and re-circulate so the people can point the finger at "them," without seeing the larger picture - of a predatory ruling class that uses government and media to propagandize and control. Meanwhile, the rich get richer, and everyone else gets shafted (or poorer).


And as someone has said, maybe Chomsky, the real main reason for the existence of the Democratic Party is to prevent actual progressive candidates and legislation. So they take in people like Bernie Sanders and AOC and the rest of the "Squad" to talk a progressive game so it seems like they care about the working class, but they continue to support bloated military budgets and barely move the needle in terms of policy.

Yep. Clever, no? But as I'm sure we both agree, they are words spoken with a forked tongue (lizard people!).

I’ve often said it here, that to me the Democrats and Republicans are identical. Like CNN and Fox are identical. They may spit out different arguments but that’s NOT because of principles or ideals, but because of tribalism. The party their mammy voted for. I’ve joked about it, that if the big explosive issue of tomoro was, should toilet roll hang in towards the wall, or away from the wall, the modern politics addict would state that “after following the science, and applying reason and common sense to the question, I’ve concluded that the Party my mammy voted for is ONCE AGAIN correct and that anyone who disagrees is a BIGOT!”

People think that covid caused divisions, but the divisions already existed and covid just fell into its slot. I could tell you a lot about a person by just asking them to give me a brief sentence on each of the following words: “Israel”, “Masks”, “Trans”, “Whiteness.”

You could choose other words, but you know what I mean. The idea of thinking of issues based on their own merits is becoming a lost art.

Yeah, it is really quite crazy - like that Ottawa teacher. The irony is there's actually a good amount of sexism involved. Any woman who dressed like that would be told to be more professional, but because it is a trans person, the school board is supporting their "identity" and "journey."

This is an example of the false compassion I mentioned. If a lunatic screams that the moon is a block of cheese, we don’t help them by forcing the whole world into agreeing with them. The Ottawa freakshow is an example of misogyny in the trans world, and yet, people are afraid to stand up and say it. And I’m sure you’re aware of how afraid people are to say what a woman is. So rather than stand up against misogyny and the most lethal attack on women in my lifetime, women are humming and hawing, afraid to disagree with that tribe - a tribe which has been hacked by lunatics and revolutionaries.

Wait, what is she measuring exactly?

Leave it!

Sounds great. Hey, what's her number?

Haha. Yeah, but seriously, I don't know where it stops. Interestingly, it seems the Israeli people have had enough. I read that only like 3% are considered "fully vaccinated." They were at like 95% at one point, I think after the first shot or two. And of course Denmark is now no longer offering it for people under 50 unless they have a serious condition. Little cracks here and there.

I think it shows that the worst tyrannical effects of this thing are not going to be permanent…

 

[tented]

That’s interesting, I had forgotten that Trump was also a donor to the Democrats, was he?

Not only Democrats, but key ones, including the Clintons (seriously, the Clintons!), Kamala Harris, and Chuck Schumer, among others — when he was still a Democrat, before switching to being a Republican in order to run for office without having to go against incumbent Democrats.

 

[Kieran]

Not only Democrats, but key ones, including the Clintons (seriously, the Clintons!), Kamala Harris, and Chuck Schumer, among others — when he was still a Democrat, before switching to being a Republican in order to run for office without having to go against incumbent Democrats.

He obviously was a totally different, much more virtuous and sane man when he was helping democrats

 

[El Dude]

100% agree with your above reply, @Kieran - and share the same observations and some of the same experiences.

The left has become taken over by a kind of religion, what we could call Wokism, that is formulaic and has automatic responses, and generally causes more harm than good - even the opposite of what it supposedly intends. Reminds me of Malcolm X saying, "Beware the white liberal." Now of course the people in charge - that is, the people the government works for - don't really care about wokism or any of the issues it is interested in, but use it as part of their repertoire. Corporations become woke to sell product, and politicians talk a woke game to sound like they are progressive, but end up supporting, or at least going along with the political establishment.

But yeah, it is the two tribes, or what we could call Team Blue and Team Red, and groupthink thrives like a disease: people just plug into what their team's view is on any given issue, and say that. Very few seem to think through the issues themselves, or explore any nuanced or alternate perspectives that don't follow along whatever Red or Blue is advocating for.

But as we seem to agree, they're just two hands of the same monster. Or as George Carlin said, "It's a big club and you ain't in it."

 

[Kieran]

100% agree with your above reply, @Kieran - and share the same observations and some of the same experiences.

The left has become taken over by a kind of religion, what we could call Wokism, that is formulaic and has automatic responses, and generally causes more harm than good - even the opposite of what it supposedly intends. Reminds me of Malcolm X saying, "Beware the white liberal." Now of course the people in charge - that is, the people the government works for - don't really care about wokism or any of the issues it is interested in, but use it as part of their repertoire. Corporations become woke to sell product, and politicians talk a woke game to sound like they are progressive, but end up supporting, or at least going along with the political establishment.

But yeah, it is the two tribes, or what we could call Team Blue and Team Red, and groupthink thrives like a disease: people just plug into what their team's view is on any given issue, and say that. Very few seem to think through the issues themselves, or explore any nuanced or alternate perspectives that don't follow along whatever Red or Blue is advocating for.

But as we seem to agree, they're just two hands of the same monster. Or as George Carlin said, "It's a big club and you ain't in it."

Exactly. “Beware the white liberal”, indeed. My favourite historian to read is Tom Holland, he writes largely about ancient history, but he was interviewed on the Triggernometry podcast and he speaks about wokeism as just a modern secular extension of the Christian west, with its dogmas, heretics, book burnings, sacred cows, excommunications, etc. It’s interesting stuff, and of course there is the most extreme religious mindset at work there, frenzied, ecstatic and unwilling to compromise…

 

[El Dude]

Exactly. “Beware the white liberal”, indeed. My favourite historian to read is Tom Holland, he writes largely about ancient history, but he was interviewed on the Triggernometry podcast and he speaks about wokeism as just a modern secular extension of the Christian west, with its dogmas, heretics, book burnings, sacred cows, excommunications, etc. It’s interesting stuff, and of course there is the most extreme religious mindset at work there, frenzied, ecstatic and unwilling to compromise…

I clicked on the link and it looks like I had started that video, but not gotten very far. Sounds interesting - I'll check it out.

 

[britbox]

100% agree with your above reply, @Kieran - and share the same observations and some of the same experiences.

The left has become taken over by a kind of religion, what we could call Wokism, that is formulaic and has automatic responses, and generally causes more harm than good - even the opposite of what it supposedly intends. Reminds me of Malcolm X saying, "Beware the white liberal." Now of course the people in charge - that is, the people the government works for - don't really care about wokism or any of the issues it is interested in, but use it as part of their repertoire. Corporations become woke to sell product, and politicians talk a woke game to sound like they are progressive, but end up supporting, or at least going along with the political establishment.

But yeah, it is the two tribes, or what we could call Team Blue and Team Red, and groupthink thrives like a disease: people just plug into what their team's view is on any given issue, and say that. Very few seem to think through the issues themselves, or explore any nuanced or alternate perspectives that don't follow along whatever Red or Blue is advocating for.

But as we seem to agree, they're just two hands of the same monster. Or as George Carlin said, "It's a big club and you ain't in it."

Reminds me of the Men In Black segment:



A person isn't stupid, but the collective "people" are.

 

[britbox]

Cue the roll-call where millions of people go and get their "booster" that's been tested on 8 mice.

The Sausage machine rolls on.