China Open

[Iona16]

Hewitt d. Haas in straights in the Battle of the Veterans. Dimitrov is out already...lost to Bautista Agut.

The last Hewitt v Haas match was in 2004. Wow.

Glad Hewitt won.

 

[DarthFed]

While I do think Nadal and Murray are the closest thing to friends of the Big 4, but I don't think you can pretend to know that they don't feel what Djokovic described, to some extent. I don't think they actually "hangout."

No need to reply to this goof. It's been said many times that Murray and Djokovic basically grew up playing each other and are pretty good friends. Nadal and Murray playing video games in hotel rooms during tournaments isn't exactly "hanging out." No moreso than hitting sessions or going out to lunch when they are at the same tournament, which many players do.

Plus Andy is going to be Novak's best man right?

Evaluating these people current relationships is very difficult. Maybe Andy and Rafa can be friends and Novak and Andy can't, who knows. I do remember early on with lendl that he was telling Andy to stop palling around so much with his rivals.

I think the truth is none of these guys are truly "friends" for the time being, but they are all friendly. I think there is a bit more tension between Fed and Novak than between any of the others, but even they can make a good promo with each other in dubai.

Exactly. We all saw how Rafa became a bit colder and colder after every loss in 2011 to Novak, before that it was all hugs and smiles but as soon as Djokovic became a threat you could see Rafa looked at him differently. It is perfectly understandable and I'm not criticizing Rafa for it. You would see the same happen if Murray starts beating him in the big events on a consistent basis. Similarly, we all know how nice Rafa is to Roger and you'd be foolish to think part of it isn't due to the fact that he has been an incredibly easy matchup the last 5 years. It'd be a much different story if Roger were still a threat to him.

Novak is the one great player I can remember in any sport where losing truly doesn't seem to bother him much. And as much as I respect him for it, I can't help but think he'd be a much better player if he carried a more cutthroat attitude.

You're absolutely right that it seemed Rafa was getting colder and colder to Novak during that run of 7 losses to him. (I'm pretty sure that had never happened to him. There aren't many players who have even beaten him 7+ times total. Probably just Roger and Nole.) However, as you and RB say, I think they're all professionals and are fully prepared to do publicity and appearances together, etc. They're genial enough, as they're all nice guys, but in the end it's probably better to keep a bit of emotional distance.

I don't agree with you Darth that Djokovic isn't bothered by loss. While he gives a warm congratulatory hug at the net, you can see on his face what it means to him to lose. I like that he's very sportsman like at the net at the end of a match, unlike some, (for example, Kieran.:wave) but he might stop applauding other players' points during the match and stay more killer-focused. It's a nice gesture, and you see it on occasion from others, but no one does it as much as Djokovic. There's no reason to send too many hearts and flowers across the net during the match. Novak is an emotional player, as is often said, and is evident. He can get hard on himself, even before it's time, (which I thought he did in the USO final, for example.) No reason to be more generous to your opponent than you're willing to be towards yourself.

We will agree to disagree on Novak. He is emotional and loses the plot quickly but an underlying problem of his is that it doesn't seem the matches are life and death. You know with Rafa it is. It used to be with Federer too but he is older and has more reason to be content. To me that is Nole's biggest problem and why he might almost be seen as an underachiever when all is said and done (similar manner to Andre).

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

booooooooooooo

grigor lost already..what a dismal spud. :spacecadet:

 

[Moxie]

No need to reply to this goof. It's been said many times that Murray and Djokovic basically grew up playing each other and are pretty good friends. Nadal and Murray playing video games in hotel rooms during tournaments isn't exactly "hanging out." No moreso than hitting sessions or going out to lunch when they are at the same tournament, which many players do.

Plus Andy is going to be Novak's best man right?

Evaluating these people current relationships is very difficult. Maybe Andy and Rafa can be friends and Novak and Andy can't, who knows. I do remember early on with lendl that he was telling Andy to stop palling around so much with his rivals.

I think the truth is none of these guys are truly "friends" for the time being, but they are all friendly. I think there is a bit more tension between Fed and Novak than between any of the others, but even they can make a good promo with each other in dubai.

Exactly. We all saw how Rafa became a bit colder and colder after every loss in 2011 to Novak, before that it was all hugs and smiles but as soon as Djokovic became a threat you could see Rafa looked at him differently. It is perfectly understandable and I'm not criticizing Rafa for it. You would see the same happen if Murray starts beating him in the big events on a consistent basis. Similarly, we all know how nice Rafa is to Roger and you'd be foolish to think part of it isn't due to the fact that he has been an incredibly easy matchup the last 5 years. It'd be a much different story if Roger were still a threat to him.

Novak is the one great player I can remember in any sport where losing truly doesn't seem to bother him much. And as much as I respect him for it, I can't help but think he'd be a much better player if he carried a more cutthroat attitude.

You're absolutely right that it seemed Rafa was getting colder and colder to Novak during that run of 7 losses to him. (I'm pretty sure that had never happened to him. There aren't many players who have even beaten him 7+ times total. Probably just Roger and Nole.) However, as you and RB say, I think they're all professionals and are fully prepared to do publicity and appearances together, etc. They're genial enough, as they're all nice guys, but in the end it's probably better to keep a bit of emotional distance.

I don't agree with you Darth that Djokovic isn't bothered by loss. While he gives a warm congratulatory hug at the net, you can see on his face what it means to him to lose. I like that he's very sportsman like at the net at the end of a match, unlike some, (for example, Kieran.:wave) but he might stop applauding other players' points during the match and stay more killer-focused. It's a nice gesture, and you see it on occasion from others, but no one does it as much as Djokovic. There's no reason to send too many hearts and flowers across the net during the match. Novak is an emotional player, as is often said, and is evident. He can get hard on himself, even before it's time, (which I thought he did in the USO final, for example.) No reason to be more generous to your opponent than you're willing to be towards yourself.

We will agree to disagree on Novak. He is emotional and loses the plot quickly but an underlying problem of his is that it doesn't seem the matches are life and death. You know with Rafa it is. It used to be with Federer too but he is older and has more reason to be content. To me that is Nole's biggest problem and why he might almost be seen as an underachiever when all is said and done (similar manner to Andre).

 

[Moxie]

I'm not convinced we disagree on this, Darth. If you put it to who see the matches as "life and death," I'll agree that Rafa and Roger have been the best. I'll cite a fairly recent one from Roger: Olympics SF v. Del Potro. I thought Juan Martin played a fantastic match, and one could say that he "deserved" to win it. But Roger refused to lose that one. Simply refused, even though he was mostly being out-played. So I do agree with you that Novak doesn't seem to have the same win-or-die mentality, often enough, though he surely manufactures it sometimes.

 

[zalvar]

Novak, Rafa, Serena, and Venus all playing tonight. China Open decided I won't sleep tonight.

 

[kskate2]

Novak, Rafa, Serena, and Venus all playing tonight. China Open decided I won't sleep tonight.

Take a nap right now and you won't be so tired come tomorrow. :sleepy:

 

[Riotbeard]

I'm not convinced we disagree on this, Darth. If you put it to who see the matches as "life and death," I'll agree that Rafa and Roger have been the best. I'll cite a fairly recent one from Roger: Olympics SF v. Del Potro. I thought Juan Martin played a fantastic match, and one could say that he "deserved" to win it. But Roger refused to lose that one. Simply refused, even though he was mostly being out-played. So I do agree with you that Novak doesn't seem to have the same win-or-die mentality, often enough, though he surely manufactures it sometimes.

I agree but this doesn't bother me. Don't get me wrong, I wish Novak was winning more, but I like Novak's sane approach to sport. I would rather him keep applauding opponents than not to be honest. It's part of why I like Novak. He doesn't have to win everything for me to be his fan (not trying to imply that Fed and Rafa fans only like them for their wins and cutthroat attitude).

 

[Moxie]

I'm not convinced we disagree on this, Darth. If you put it to who see the matches as "life and death," I'll agree that Rafa and Roger have been the best. I'll cite a fairly recent one from Roger: Olympics SF v. Del Potro. I thought Juan Martin played a fantastic match, and one could say that he "deserved" to win it. But Roger refused to lose that one. Simply refused, even though he was mostly being out-played. So I do agree with you that Novak doesn't seem to have the same win-or-die mentality, often enough, though he surely manufactures it sometimes.

I agree but this doesn't bother me. Don't get me wrong, I wish Novak was winning more, but I like Novak's sane approach to sport. I would rather him keep applauding opponents than not to be honest. It's part of why I like Novak. He doesn't have to win everything for me to be his fan (not trying to imply that Fed and Rafa fans only like them for their wins and cutthroat attitude).

It's surely an appealing feature of him, but I'm entertaining the notion that others have, which is that it may not serve him well. He can lose focus, and celebrating his opponent's may not be of any help.

Anyway, he appears to have breezed past Rosol, 0 and 3. Querrey beat Youzhny, and Wawrinka survived Seppi in 3.

Giraldo was trying to press Nadal early, but I think I may be able to go safely back to bed soon.

 

[Kieran]

The Buddhist of Monte Carlo is playing in his spiritual home, so I hope he's not too distracted by all those vegan menus, zoological temples and incense-fueled discourses about how life is all an illusion, etc. Good to see he smited Rosol. Things get personal, ya know?

 

[Moxie]

The Buddhist of Monte Carlo is playing in his spiritual home, so I hope he's not too distracted by all those vegan menus, zoological temples and incense-fueled discourses about how life is all an illusion, etc. Good to see he smited Rosol. Things get personal, ya know?

Oh, Kieran, you are terrible. I think I'll try out some the new smilies on you: :lolz::velo::spacecadet::sleepy:

The last one is "sleepy," which I am. I thought I was going to bed with Rafa serving for it, but he got broken.lease:

 

[Kieran]

I like the new smileys! : :clap

 

[Moxie]

Emphatic service game for the win.

 

[Kieran]

Emphatic service game for the win.

I haven't paid much attention to tennis lately, but it's a great field, isn't it? Kohlschreiber next for Rafa, the old fogeys Hewitt and Haas in a first round tussle, and a lot of big stars. Obviously, being Rafa-centric, I'm thinking he's entered too many events from now til the end of the season, and I hope he jettisons something, but this looks like an attractive one to play in...

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Another tough loss for Pospisil...final set TB against David. He is getting close though...I like his attitude.

 

[Moxie]

Emphatic service game for the win.

I haven't paid much attention to tennis lately, but it's a great field, isn't it? Kohlschreiber next for Rafa, the old fogeys Hewitt and Haas in a first round tussle, and a lot of big stars. Obviously, being Rafa-centric, I'm thinking he's entered too many events from now til the end of the season, and I hope he jettisons something, but this looks like an attractive one to play in...

It IS a very good field, Nadal's draw isn't too tough, and Dimitrov is already out of the way. BTW, I saw an interview with Rafa that a friend of ours sent in Catalan. He talks like his calendar for the rest of the year is 'theoretical,' and 'no one knows what will happen.' I don't think he's planning to play all of it.

 

[Kieran]

It IS a very good field, Nadal's draw isn't too tough, and Dimitrov is already out of the way. BTW, I saw an interview with Rafa that a friend of ours sent in Catalan. He talks like his calendar for the rest of the year is 'theoretical,' and 'no one knows what will happen.' I don't think he's planning to play all of it.

Hopefully not, just simply because it's unnecessary. Given a choice, I'd like to see him play 3 instead of five events, and prepare more for Oz. I'm sure that once he has the #1 sewn up, he might take off for the beach with the Rafaelesque Xisca - and who could blame him! :blush:

 

[GameSetAndMath]

Hewitt d. Haas in straights in the Battle of the Veterans. Dimitrov is out already...lost to Bautista Agut.

The last Hewitt v Haas match was in 2004. Wow.

Glad Hewitt won.

This puts a huge damper on Haas's attempt to qualify for the WTF. He is
already big 400 points below other contenders and now with this loss, his
deficit would go up further and almost takes him out of contention.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

I like the new smileys! : :clap

we got some more coming in hopefully, britbox is on the case..

did you see the wishlist page ??..tented put a link up to a page of them. its up to bb though.

 

[NADAL2005RG]

I agree but this doesn't bother me. Don't get me wrong, I wish Novak was winning more, but I like Novak's sane approach to sport. I would rather him keep applauding opponents than not to be honest. It's part of why I like Novak. He doesn't have to win everything for me to be his fan (not trying to imply that Fed and Rafa fans only like them for their wins and cutthroat attitude).

I've seen all of the big 4 applaud shots by opponents. And generally speaking I think Djokovic is more cutthroat than the rest of the big 4. Djokovic actually refuses to hangout with the rest of the big 4 (so does Federer too, but he hasn't exactly declared it as a rule). I mean, Djokovic said-
http://zeenews.india.com/sports/tennis/us-open-2012/djokovic-says-he-cant-be-friends-with-murray-nadal-or-federer_748572.html

“I can’t be friends with Andy, though. I really like the guy — but how can you go and be best friends with a guy who you know you are going to be doing battle with? It is true for myself, Roger, Rafa and now Andy. We like each other and there is mutual respect but common sense tells you we can’t be best friends and hang out,” he said.

Djokovic added: “When we are all retired the four of us will go to a bar, drink too much beer and look back on all the great matches we’ve had. But, for now, we must keep a professional distance.”

“I see us being very good friends in the future but the reason I can’t be friends with him now is a compliment. It means I now see him as a very real threat for this Grand Slam and many to come,” he concluded.

Compare that to Nadal-Murray-
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/07/rafael-nadal-and-andy-murray-are-bitter-rivals-on-playstation/

A bit of background — apparently when Andy Murray and Rafael Nadal are staying in the same hotel during tournaments, they often invite each other over to play FIFA or Pro Evo on their PlayStation 3s. Recently they had a match to settle the score once and for all, but there’s controversy over who was the winner in the end!

“Normally we play PlayStation outside the court when we are in the same hotels in the tournament,” said Nadal, in a post-match press conference.

Maybe it would serve Djokovic well to be more social and actually be friends with the elite away from the court. It may help him mentally, instead of him tensing up so much in these big matches. He takes things maybe too seriously on the court, for example at Montreal when Nadal hit the ball at Djokovic (the logical and accepted tactic, and was not even hit at high-speed), Djokovic paused and stared at Nadal angrily.
Gulbis lends some insight-
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/09/gulbis-doesnt-how-djokovic-has-changed/49191/#.UkxB0FNFYbA

“I've known him since I was 12 years old,” Gulbis said. “We trained and lived together in the same room in Munich. I remember he was a normal, cool guy. But when he achieved his first big success then the look in his eyes just changed. You could just feel it. It's not like we argued or anything, I just feel like he has changed and I don't like that in people. I like strong characters who don't change when first success or money appear—that's the most important quality for me and it's also important for myself not to change.”

Janowicz adds-
http://news.tennistonic.com/tennis-news?nid=1799

Janowicz: "Djokovic is fake, he shows off and acts. Federer is a guy who wants to be above everything. In this context there might be something unnatural of him, hard to feel he is one of us".
Janowicz likes Nadal "Because there is no fake, he behaves like in life".