Basel 2014 ATP 500

[DarthFed]

Showing mental toughness and having a great run against the rest of the tour doesn't mean he will bring any kind of toughness vs. Rafa. That's beyond obvious. Rafa is way too far in his head and their matchups these days often look like hitting practices (their last 2 AO matches are good examples). Until we see any kind of fight vs. Rafa I won't hold my breath.

AO is not a good surface for Roger anymore, it always was his 2nd worst by far to begin with. it will be tough even if he comes in on a big roll, the surface is way different than fast hards/indoors.

 

[DarthFed]

One of the worst service games of all time hands Ivo the set. God it must be frustrating to play against this

 

[Federberg]

Not impressed with the Swiss crowd. Cheering Karlo service errors. I never approve of that

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Not impressed with the Swiss crowd. Cheering Karlo service errors. I never approve of that

Dude, come with me to a couple of soccer games...and then those cheers will feel like a mother's kiss before bed...

I know, joking aside, it is very poor taste. The Swiss are supposed to be neutral to begin with.

 

[Federberg]

^haha! I know what you mean about football, but that's different, it's team sport. I recall getting very upset with the Spanish crowd years ago in the Madrid Masters when Berdman shushed them afterwards. I never like a situation where you're almost trying to disrupt the player. But that's just me!

 

[Front242]

^haha! I know what you mean about football, but that's different, it's team sport. I recall getting very upset with the Spanish crowd years ago in the Madrid Masters when Berdman shushed them afterwards. I never like a situation where you're almost trying to disrupt the player. But that's just me!

That was funny. Nadal was acting like a total prick at the handshake. "That was very bad. Very bad".

 

[Kieran]

Come on... :dodgy:

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

So it is back to the future for Roger...

 

[Front242]

So it is back to the future for Roger...

Yeah, Marty McFly versus Doc Brown.

 

[Federberg]

^haha! I know what you mean about football, but that's different, it's team sport. I recall getting very upset with the Spanish crowd years ago in the Madrid Masters when Berdman shushed them afterwards. I never like a situation where you're almost trying to disrupt the player. But that's just me!

That was funny. Nadal was acting like a total prick at the handshake. "That was very bad. Very bad".

Lol! Yes he was a bit sanctimonious. But he was right. You don't antagonise the crowd when you still have the final to play. He doesn't have the stones of an Azarenka to ignore the crowd and execute. Still I did feel a bit sorry for him in the final. The Spanish crowd were appalling on the Sunday

 

[brokenshoelace]

Showing mental toughness and having a great run against the rest of the tour doesn't mean he will bring any kind of toughness vs. Rafa. That's beyond obvious. Rafa is way too far in his head and their matchups these days often look like hitting practices (their last 2 AO matches are good examples). Until we see any kind of fight vs. Rafa I won't hold my breath.

AO is not a good surface for Roger anymore, it always was his 2nd worst by far to begin with. it will be tough even if he comes in on a big roll, the surface is way different than fast hards/indoors.

It's not just Nadal being in his head. That's too simplistic. It goes back to what Federberg stated. In the past, while the match-up was difficult for Roger, Nadal at least had to stay away from the forehand. These days, he actually dominates the cross court exchanges on both wings, and often finds it easy to stretch Roger on his forehand side. As a result, Roger often rushes his shots (especially the forehand) and misses some pretty make-able shots and then the unforced errors start pouring. Now Roger seems to be moving better these days than he has been for a while, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough.

It's not just Nadal being in his head. He's been in his head since at least 2008, and yet Roger was still managing to sneak in some wins. These days it's one way traffic.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

So it is back to the future for Roger...

they say Federer glides across the court, maybe he has a version of 'back to the future 2' hovverboards..hovverfeet.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

^^I saw the match so I don't know if those highlights of 1st set show how mental ivo's serves were..

seemed to be ace after ace either side of Federer with fed just trapped in the middle..a novel idea would have been for Federer to stand inside the baseline and try to block/slap/fluke the ball back over the net before ivo's serve hit the ground. it could hardly have been less ineffective than his normal receive serve position..

he might have got a couple in, and just the process of stepping inside the box to receive ivo's nuclear weapon serve might have got in ivo's head and made him df..but fed won his way so thats that.

 

[DarthFed]

Showing mental toughness and having a great run against the rest of the tour doesn't mean he will bring any kind of toughness vs. Rafa. That's beyond obvious. Rafa is way too far in his head and their matchups these days often look like hitting practices (their last 2 AO matches are good examples). Until we see any kind of fight vs. Rafa I won't hold my breath.

AO is not a good surface for Roger anymore, it always was his 2nd worst by far to begin with. it will be tough even if he comes in on a big roll, the surface is way different than fast hards/indoors.

It's not just Nadal being in his head. That's too simplistic. It goes back to what Federberg stated. In the past, while the match-up was difficult for Roger, Nadal at least had to stay away from the forehand. These days, he actually dominates the cross court exchanges on both wings, and often finds it easy to stretch Roger on his forehand side. As a result, Roger often rushes his shots (especially the forehand) and misses some pretty make-able shots and then the unforced errors start pouring. Now Roger seems to be moving better these days than he has been for a while, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough.

It's not just Nadal being in his head. He's been in his head since at least 2008, and yet Roger was still managing to sneak in some wins. These days it's one way traffic.

He's "snuck" in 4 wins, 2 indoors, 1 on Madrid clay at 27 and one at Indian wells (the true surprise). Now why is Rogers forehand so weak against rafa that he can't win exchanges against the completely neutral backhand? Why does he make crazy errors he doesn't usually make vs others and loses easily to rafa on a medium hard court every time. If you don't think the mental side of it is huge then there's nothing more to say. Not saying he "should" beat rafa on a court like AO but to not be competitive the last 2 times. That's a lot about baggage

 

[shawnbm]

So, tented (I think) had noted Roger and his tiebreak streak. After today, he's won 9 straight tiebreaks. That is a testament to how well he's playing when it counts it would seem.

 

[Federberg]

Showing mental toughness and having a great run against the rest of the tour doesn't mean he will bring any kind of toughness vs. Rafa. That's beyond obvious. Rafa is way too far in his head and their matchups these days often look like hitting practices (their last 2 AO matches are good examples). Until we see any kind of fight vs. Rafa I won't hold my breath.

AO is not a good surface for Roger anymore, it always was his 2nd worst by far to begin with. it will be tough even if he comes in on a big roll, the surface is way different than fast hards/indoors.

It's not just Nadal being in his head. That's too simplistic. It goes back to what Federberg stated. In the past, while the match-up was difficult for Roger, Nadal at least had to stay away from the forehand. These days, he actually dominates the cross court exchanges on both wings, and often finds it easy to stretch Roger on his forehand side. As a result, Roger often rushes his shots (especially the forehand) and misses some pretty make-able shots and then the unforced errors start pouring. Now Roger seems to be moving better these days than he has been for a while, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough.

It's not just Nadal being in his head. He's been in his head since at least 2008, and yet Roger was still managing to sneak in some wins. These days it's one way traffic.

He's "snuck" in 4 wins, 2 indoors, 1 on Madrid clay at 27 and one at Indian wells (the true surprise). Now why is Rogers forehand so weak against rafa that he can't win exchanges against the completely neutral backhand? Why does he make crazy errors he doesn't usually make vs others and loses easily to rafa on a medium hard court every time. If you don't think the mental side of it is huge then there's nothing more to say. Not saying he "should" beat rafa on a court like AO but to not be competitive the last 2 times. That's a lot about baggage

I think it's both.. The match up has always been difficult for Roger. Now he's not as powerful as he used to be, and his great strength is not what it used to be. That just makes the mental baggage worse

 

[DarthFed]

No question about that, these past few months not withstanding Roger's game is way less than it once was, But against Rafa he usually does have the ridiculously bad performances that can surprise even now.

 

[Front242]

No question about that, these past few months not withstanding Roger's game is way less than it once was, But against Rafa he usually does have the ridiculously bad performances that can surprise even now.

If it's any consolation, in his worst ever match he never had a ratio of just 1 winner to 19 ufes at least!

 

[brokenshoelace]

Showing mental toughness and having a great run against the rest of the tour doesn't mean he will bring any kind of toughness vs. Rafa. That's beyond obvious. Rafa is way too far in his head and their matchups these days often look like hitting practices (their last 2 AO matches are good examples). Until we see any kind of fight vs. Rafa I won't hold my breath.

AO is not a good surface for Roger anymore, it always was his 2nd worst by far to begin with. it will be tough even if he comes in on a big roll, the surface is way different than fast hards/indoors.

It's not just Nadal being in his head. That's too simplistic. It goes back to what Federberg stated. In the past, while the match-up was difficult for Roger, Nadal at least had to stay away from the forehand. These days, he actually dominates the cross court exchanges on both wings, and often finds it easy to stretch Roger on his forehand side. As a result, Roger often rushes his shots (especially the forehand) and misses some pretty make-able shots and then the unforced errors start pouring. Now Roger seems to be moving better these days than he has been for a while, but I'm not sure it's going to be enough.

It's not just Nadal being in his head. He's been in his head since at least 2008, and yet Roger was still managing to sneak in some wins. These days it's one way traffic.

He's "snuck" in 4 wins, 2 indoors, 1 on Madrid clay at 27 and one at Indian wells (the true surprise). Now why is Rogers forehand so weak against rafa that he can't win exchanges against the completely neutral backhand? Why does he make crazy errors he doesn't usually make vs others and loses easily to rafa on a medium hard court every time. If you don't think the mental side of it is huge then there's nothing more to say. Not saying he "should" beat rafa on a court like AO but to not be competitive the last 2 times. That's a lot about baggage

I don't think the mental factor plays that big of a part when Roger makes a bad error at 30-0 with Nadal serving at 2-3 in the first set.

The above is to highlight a point: There are way too many errors, way too many different struggles (on the return, poor approach shots, etc...), too many different elements that don't click to simply say it's mostly mental. The mental game plays a part when Roger blows leads to Nadal, when, no matter the scoreline, you always get the feeling there's only going to be one winner, when Roger plays bad tie-breaks, when he makes terrible errors on break points, etc... But key points are, in the grand scheme of things, very few (relatively), albeit very decisive. The mental game does not explain why other elements in the match-up that occur at "neutral" moments in the match. There's clearly much in Rafa's game that forces Federer to overthink at times, and I think that's actually the most under-discussed aspect of Fedal matches: They've played 33 times, and yet Federer is STILL unsure what's the best way to approach their matches, tactically.

 

[brokenshoelace]

No question about that, these past few months not withstanding Roger's game is way less than it once was, But against Rafa he usually does have the ridiculously bad performances that can surprise even now.

If it's any consolation, in his worst ever match he never had a ratio of just 1 winner to 19 ufes at least!

If that's consolation, then you guys have gone desperate