Basel 2014 ATP 500

[brokenshoelace]

Anyway, I think we can all learn a valuable life lesson here: Whatever your illness, whatever your condition, no matter how serious it is/can get, it may affect your life and health, but never your tennis. A word to the wise.

I just don't understand the purpose of bringing these ailments up. If he feels well enough to play, why have sympathy for him if he ends up losing.. Anyway.. it's just my opinion.

I have zero sympathy for a multi-millionaire doing what he loves for big money if his main problem is "I have this condition that's preventing me from showing levels of talent that most normal people could only dream of for a few tournaments."

I bring up the ailments when people act like nothing is wrong with him and him playing so badly is the norm for him on this surface (which is absolutely not true). That doesn't mean I sympathize. As far as I'm concerned, Nadal's season ended the moment he pulled out of the US Open, so I honestly have little emotional investment in any of his matches, and certainly not enough to sympathize.

I certainly didn't say that his level was the norm for this surface. But I do agree with Front that he seemed to perform ok in the previous matches. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, when the idea is put forward that the only reason he can play badly is his ailment. I mean... what are his team doing for their money? If he was at risk he wouldn't have been allowed to play. It seems to me entirely more plausible that his usual patchy form at this time of the season as well as his lack of playing time in recent months are sufficient reason to explain this performance. To bring up appendicitis because of this is precisely why non Rafa fans roll their eyes when every poor performance has to be explained away by injuries

Equally, I roll my eyes at Rafa fans who act like his appendicitis didn't affect his performance when Nadal is basically done for the rest of the season and will probably have surgery. Again, you tell me which one is an argument you'd put more stock in.

Rafa trashed two no-name players? You don't think a player of his ability could probably overcome his ailment enough to do that, and that the moment someone was going to play remotely good tennis, he was done? I mean, was I the only one actually paying attention to his level in the last few weeks? This isn't an isolated loss.

Like seriously, do you guys believe that tennis players ARE NEVER affected by injury? Because based on this, you really don't seem like you do. But in case you do, what bigger proof do you need than a guy playing badly, losing to players he has no business losing to, pulling out for the rest of the season and being scheduled for surgery (keep in mind both of these things were announced before he actually lost. Unless you think it's nothing but BS and preemptive excuse making)? I'm seriously asking. Like what would make you believe a player's performance was affected by injury?

Or maybe I'm too harsh. Maybe if a player starts out fine, gets injured mid match, and his movement and/or serving are hampered, then you would buy into the injury.... Oh wait.

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

told you lot coric was going places and a future top player. :shy:

borna coric at least in the 90s rank (180pts -35pts dropoff futures2013 ?)

 

[Front242]

Was Tokyo indoors?

Nope. Outdoor.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Was Tokyo indoors?

No. We just refer to this whole fall season as "the indoor season" kinda out of habit.

 

[Front242]

I just don't understand the purpose of bringing these ailments up. If he feels well enough to play, why have sympathy for him if he ends up losing.. Anyway.. it's just my opinion.

I have zero sympathy for a multi-millionaire doing what he loves for big money if his main problem is "I have this condition that's preventing me from showing levels of talent that most normal people could only dream of for a few tournaments."

I bring up the ailments when people act like nothing is wrong with him and him playing so badly is the norm for him on this surface (which is absolutely not true). That doesn't mean I sympathize. As far as I'm concerned, Nadal's season ended the moment he pulled out of the US Open, so I honestly have little emotional investment in any of his matches, and certainly not enough to sympathize.

I certainly didn't say that his level was the norm for this surface. But I do agree with Front that he seemed to perform ok in the previous matches. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, when the idea is put forward that the only reason he can play badly is his ailment. I mean... what are his team doing for their money? If he was at risk he wouldn't have been allowed to play. It seems to me entirely more plausible that his usual patchy form at this time of the season as well as his lack of playing time in recent months are sufficient reason to explain this performance. To bring up appendicitis because of this is precisely why non Rafa fans roll their eyes when every poor performance has to be explained away by injuries

Equally, I roll my eyes at Rafa fans who act like his appendicitis didn't affect his performance when Nadal is basically done for the rest of the season and will probably have surgery. Again, you tell me which one is an argument you'd put more stock on.

Rafa trashed two no-name players? You don't think a player of his ability could probably overcome his ailment enough to do that, and that the moment someone was going to play remotely good tennis, he was done? I mean, was I the only one actually paying attention to his level in the last few weeks? This isn't an isolated loss.

Like seriously, do you guys believe that tennis players ARE NEVER affected by injury? Because based on this, you really don't seem like you do. But in case you do, what bigger proof do you need than a guy playing badly, losing to players he has no business losing to, pulling out for the rest of the season and being scheduled for surgery (keep in mind both of these things were announced before he actually lost. Unless you think it's nothing but BS and preemptive excuse making)? I'm seriously asking. Like what would make you believe a player's performance was affected by injury?

Or maybe I'm too harsh. Maybe if a player starts out fine, gets injured mid match, and his movement and/or serving are hampered, then you would buy into the injury.... Oh wait.

There are about 20 ranking places between Coric and the last guy Nadal played if even that.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Yes, the same standards apply to both given their equal pedigree. And of course, if both players play like crap, it automatically means that an injury couldn't have been why one of them did.

Since when has Nadal had any kind of pedigree on indoor hard courts? Unless you mean this 'cos he does often make a dog's dinner of indoor season!

This is one of the stupidest arguments you've yet to bring up in this thread.

A) Nadal has won a Masters indoor, made multiple indoor finals, and has made two WTF finals. Is it a pedigree compared to say, Federer? Surely not. But it's a pedigree compared to just about 95% of the tour, of which Coric takes part.

B) Making 19 unforced errors in a set for Nadal, on ANY surface is too much. The surface may not suit his spin but in case you haven't heard, the height of the net is the same, as is the length and width of the court, so blaming the surface on unforced errors is dumb, even by your level of argumentation's standard in this thread.

C) Are you done making a joke out of your posts?

There's no joke here. Be honest and score Nadal's performance on indoor hard courts out of 10. Personally I'd make it a 5 compared to his play on the other surfaces. Is 5 out of 10 considered good? Not to me anyway.

5, and that's being generous. But you're just making my point: His performances indoor are historically only poor compared to his performances elsewhere. This year, his performances are juts poor. Compared to any halfway decent player.

So yeah, you just made my point.

 

[brokenshoelace]

I have zero sympathy for a multi-millionaire doing what he loves for big money if his main problem is "I have this condition that's preventing me from showing levels of talent that most normal people could only dream of for a few tournaments."

I bring up the ailments when people act like nothing is wrong with him and him playing so badly is the norm for him on this surface (which is absolutely not true). That doesn't mean I sympathize. As far as I'm concerned, Nadal's season ended the moment he pulled out of the US Open, so I honestly have little emotional investment in any of his matches, and certainly not enough to sympathize.

I certainly didn't say that his level was the norm for this surface. But I do agree with Front that he seemed to perform ok in the previous matches. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, when the idea is put forward that the only reason he can play badly is his ailment. I mean... what are his team doing for their money? If he was at risk he wouldn't have been allowed to play. It seems to me entirely more plausible that his usual patchy form at this time of the season as well as his lack of playing time in recent months are sufficient reason to explain this performance. To bring up appendicitis because of this is precisely why non Rafa fans roll their eyes when every poor performance has to be explained away by injuries

Equally, I roll my eyes at Rafa fans who act like his appendicitis didn't affect his performance when Nadal is basically done for the rest of the season and will probably have surgery. Again, you tell me which one is an argument you'd put more stock on.

Rafa trashed two no-name players? You don't think a player of his ability could probably overcome his ailment enough to do that, and that the moment someone was going to play remotely good tennis, he was done? I mean, was I the only one actually paying attention to his level in the last few weeks? This isn't an isolated loss.

Like seriously, do you guys believe that tennis players ARE NEVER affected by injury? Because based on this, you really don't seem like you do. But in case you do, what bigger proof do you need than a guy playing badly, losing to players he has no business losing to, pulling out for the rest of the season and being scheduled for surgery (keep in mind both of these things were announced before he actually lost. Unless you think it's nothing but BS and preemptive excuse making)? I'm seriously asking. Like what would make you believe a player's performance was affected by injury?

Or maybe I'm too harsh. Maybe if a player starts out fine, gets injured mid match, and his movement and/or serving are hampered, then you would buy into the injury.... Oh wait.

There are about 20 ranking places between Coric and the last guy Nadal played if even that.

Ah, and as we all know, rankings mean everything, especially in the case of a young gun like Coric who's just coming into his own and playing good tennis.

I'll tell you what: I'll stop being a jerk if you stop making silly arguments. Seriously. You can't have it both ways: you can't hail this guy as a potential future top 10 player and then suddenly compare him to Nadal's previous opponents based on rankings.

 

[Front242]

In fact, Coric who just jumped 31 places in the live rankings to 93 was ranked 124 today whereas Pierre Hugues Herbert is ranked 109.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

What a nice start to this match . Both Roger and Grigor hitting well. I hope it stays that way.

 

[Front242]

I certainly didn't say that his level was the norm for this surface. But I do agree with Front that he seemed to perform ok in the previous matches. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, when the idea is put forward that the only reason he can play badly is his ailment. I mean... what are his team doing for their money? If he was at risk he wouldn't have been allowed to play. It seems to me entirely more plausible that his usual patchy form at this time of the season as well as his lack of playing time in recent months are sufficient reason to explain this performance. To bring up appendicitis because of this is precisely why non Rafa fans roll their eyes when every poor performance has to be explained away by injuries

Equally, I roll my eyes at Rafa fans who act like his appendicitis didn't affect his performance when Nadal is basically done for the rest of the season and will probably have surgery. Again, you tell me which one is an argument you'd put more stock on.

Rafa trashed two no-name players? You don't think a player of his ability could probably overcome his ailment enough to do that, and that the moment someone was going to play remotely good tennis, he was done? I mean, was I the only one actually paying attention to his level in the last few weeks? This isn't an isolated loss.

Like seriously, do you guys believe that tennis players ARE NEVER affected by injury? Because based on this, you really don't seem like you do. But in case you do, what bigger proof do you need than a guy playing badly, losing to players he has no business losing to, pulling out for the rest of the season and being scheduled for surgery (keep in mind both of these things were announced before he actually lost. Unless you think it's nothing but BS and preemptive excuse making)? I'm seriously asking. Like what would make you believe a player's performance was affected by injury?

Or maybe I'm too harsh. Maybe if a player starts out fine, gets injured mid match, and his movement and/or serving are hampered, then you would buy into the injury.... Oh wait.

There are about 20 ranking places between Coric and the last guy Nadal played if even that.

Ah, and as we all know, rankings mean everything, especially in the case of a young gun like Coric who's just coming into his own and playing good tennis.

I'll tell you what: I'll stop being a jerk if you stop making silly arguments. Seriously. You can't have it both ways: you can't hail this guy as a potential future top 10 player and then suddenly compare him to Nadal's previous opponents based on rankings.

Consistency gets you ranking points. The last player he beat wins more often as his ranking was higher prior to today so actually his last opponent should therefore have been tougher but Nadal won 6-1 6-1. I never hailed Coric as a future top 10 player but I hope he will be. Equally I said both of them were crap in set 1 and the guy with less ufes in the match won in the end.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Grigor chips and charges ! He is trying to take away what Roger is trying to do...will it work?

 

[Federberg]

I certainly didn't say that his level was the norm for this surface. But I do agree with Front that he seemed to perform ok in the previous matches. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, when the idea is put forward that the only reason he can play badly is his ailment. I mean... what are his team doing for their money? If he was at risk he wouldn't have been allowed to play. It seems to me entirely more plausible that his usual patchy form at this time of the season as well as his lack of playing time in recent months are sufficient reason to explain this performance. To bring up appendicitis because of this is precisely why non Rafa fans roll their eyes when every poor performance has to be explained away by injuries

Equally, I roll my eyes at Rafa fans who act like his appendicitis didn't affect his performance when Nadal is basically done for the rest of the season and will probably have surgery. Again, you tell me which one is an argument you'd put more stock on.

Rafa trashed two no-name players? You don't think a player of his ability could probably overcome his ailment enough to do that, and that the moment someone was going to play remotely good tennis, he was done? I mean, was I the only one actually paying attention to his level in the last few weeks? This isn't an isolated loss.

Like seriously, do you guys believe that tennis players ARE NEVER affected by injury? Because based on this, you really don't seem like you do. But in case you do, what bigger proof do you need than a guy playing badly, losing to players he has no business losing to, pulling out for the rest of the season and being scheduled for surgery (keep in mind both of these things were announced before he actually lost. Unless you think it's nothing but BS and preemptive excuse making)? I'm seriously asking. Like what would make you believe a player's performance was affected by injury?

Or maybe I'm too harsh. Maybe if a player starts out fine, gets injured mid match, and his movement and/or serving are hampered, then you would buy into the injury.... Oh wait.

There are about 20 ranking places between Coric and the last guy Nadal played if even that.

Ah, and as we all know, rankings mean everything, especially in the case of a young gun like Coric who's just coming into his own and playing good tennis.

I'll tell you what: I'll stop being a jerk if you stop making silly arguments. Seriously. You can't have it both ways: you can't hail this guy as a potential future top 10 player and then suddenly compare him to Nadal's previous opponents based on rankings.

I don't think you're being a jerk. Passionate yes. I disagree with you on the reason for Rafa's loss for sure. But I do agree it's far too early to judge Coric. But I admire his ability to close out that match with minimum fuss

 

[the AntiPusher]

Congrats to the kid, he won but Rafa played like crap.. Hey.. Darth.. I will grant you this one time only.. You can be a Rafa fan for the day.. Can you comment about how lousy Rafa was in your opinion..:laydownlaughing

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

I think Rafa is allowed to be affected by injuries. He is also allowed to suck with or without injuries every now and then. Fair?

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Amazing DTL backhand pass from Roger !

 

[Fiero425]

I think Rafa is allowed to be affected by injuries. He is also allowed to suck with or without injuries every now and then. Fair?

uzzled Nope; that is not the case! His team wouldn't have the need to "get it" out there that he's hurt or injured if he was allowed to be actually human and have a bad day! Nyah, not in this lifetime! He's a GAWD! lol! :angel: :lolz: :snigger:laydownlaughing

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Roger gets the first BP of the match at 5-5.

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Great get from Grigor there...

 

[Fiero425]

That was a hard FALL!

 

[Murat Baslamisli]

Nasty tumble from Grigor. Hopefully he is alright.