Basel 2014 ATP 500

[tented]

Congrats to Coric. :clap


Rafa -- See you next year.

 

[brokenshoelace]

Anyway, I think we can all learn a valuable life lesson here: Whatever your illness, whatever your condition, no matter how serious it is/can get, it may affect your life and health, but never your tennis. A word to the wise.

Well he's hardly f*****g dying out there. If you really think his appendicitis is why he hit 19 errors in set 1, consider that Coric who has no appendicitis made 13 ufes. Both just played a crap first set.

Yes, the same standards apply to both given their equal pedigree. And of course, if both players play like crap, it automatically means that an injury couldn't have been why one of them did.

Since when has Nadal had any kind of pedigree on indoor hard courts? Unless you mean this 'cos he does often make a dog's dinner of indoor season!

This is one of the stupidest arguments you've yet to bring up in this thread.

A) Nadal has won a Masters indoor, made multiple indoor finals, and has made two WTF finals. Is it a pedigree compared to say, Federer? Surely not. But it's a pedigree compared to just about 95% of the tour, of which Coric takes part.

B) Making 19 unforced errors in a set for Nadal, on ANY surface is too much. The surface may not suit his spin but in case you haven't heard, the height of the net is the same, as is the length and width of the court, so blaming the surface on unforced errors is dumb, even by your level of argumentation's standard in this thread.

C) Are you done making a joke out of your posts?

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

:woohoos :speechless: :clap

 

[bobvance]

I missed the match. Was it mostly a matter of Rafa playing like garbage, or did the Kid show flashes?

 

[Fiero425]

I missed the match. Was it mostly a matter of Rafa playing like garbage, or did the Kid show flashes?

A little bit of both! The kid played well, only double faulted a couple times, wore out Nadal's backhand, but didn't forget to hit to the forehand putting him on the defensive! :clap :angel: Nadal miss-hit a lot of balls; many shots miss-timed altogether! It was ridiculous he even came to the event!

 

[Riotbeard]

Good job for Coric. Admittedly not rafa best, but it looks like Coric will move into the top 100 while still being just 17 (right?).

Now come on Grigor.

 

[Federberg]

Anyway, I think we can all learn a valuable life lesson here: Whatever your illness, whatever your condition, no matter how serious it is/can get, it may affect your life and health, but never your tennis. A word to the wise.

I just don't understand the purpose of bringing these ailments up. If he feels well enough to play, why have sympathy for him if he ends up losing.. Anyway.. it's just my opinion.

I have zero sympathy for a multi-millionaire doing what he loves for big money if his main problem is "I have this condition that's preventing me from showing levels of talent that most normal people could only dream of for a few tournaments."

I bring up the ailments when people act like nothing is wrong with him and him playing so badly is the norm for him on this surface (which is absolutely not true). That doesn't mean I sympathize. As far as I'm concerned, Nadal's season ended the moment he pulled out of the US Open, so I honestly have little emotional investment in any of his matches, and certainly not enough to sympathize.

I certainly didn't say that his level was the norm for this surface. But I do agree with Front that he seemed to perform ok in the previous matches. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, when the idea is put forward that the only reason he can play badly is his ailment. I mean... what are his team doing for their money? If he was at risk he wouldn't have been allowed to play. It seems to me entirely more plausible that his usual patchy form at this time of the season as well as his lack of playing time in recent months are sufficient reason to explain this performance. To bring up appendicitis because of this is precisely why non Rafa fans roll their eyes when every poor performance has to be explained away by injuries

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

I missed the match. Was it mostly a matter of Rafa playing like garbage, or did the Kid show flashes?

both..but credit to coric who carried on his good form of earlier rounds.. rafa was a bit sh!te tho.

 

[Front242]

I missed the match. Was it mostly a matter of Rafa playing like garbage, or did the Kid show flashes?

They were both crap in set 1. They both played better in set 2. Some good shots by both of them in set two but nothing spectacular and the guy who made less errors won. Coric is definitely improving though but Nadal played appalling in set 1. Like Federer in set 1 of Brisbane against Hewitt.

 

[Front242]

Well he's hardly f*****g dying out there. If you really think his appendicitis is why he hit 19 errors in set 1, consider that Coric who has no appendicitis made 13 ufes. Both just played a crap first set.

Yes, the same standards apply to both given their equal pedigree. And of course, if both players play like crap, it automatically means that an injury couldn't have been why one of them did.

Since when has Nadal had any kind of pedigree on indoor hard courts? Unless you mean this 'cos he does often make a dog's dinner of indoor season!

This is one of the stupidest arguments you've yet to bring up in this thread.

A) Nadal has won a Masters indoor, made multiple indoor finals, and has made two WTF finals. Is it a pedigree compared to say, Federer? Surely not. But it's a pedigree compared to just about 95% of the tour, of which Coric takes part.

B) Making 19 unforced errors in a set for Nadal, on ANY surface is too much. The surface may not suit his spin but in case you haven't heard, the height of the net is the same, as is the length and width of the court, so blaming the surface on unforced errors is dumb, even by your level of argumentation's standard in this thread.

C) Are you done making a joke out of your posts?

There's no joke here. Be honest and score Nadal's performance on indoor hard courts out of 10. Personally I'd make it a 5 compared to his play on the other surfaces. Is 5 out of 10 considered good? Not to me anyway.

 

[Riotbeard]

Anyway, I think we can all learn a valuable life lesson here: Whatever your illness, whatever your condition, no matter how serious it is/can get, it may affect your life and health, but never your tennis. A word to the wise.

I just don't understand the purpose of bringing these ailments up. If he feels well enough to play, why have sympathy for him if he ends up losing.. Anyway.. it's just my opinion.

I have zero sympathy for a multi-millionaire doing what he loves for big money if his main problem is "I have this condition that's preventing me from showing levels of talent that most normal people could only dream of for a few tournaments."

I bring up the ailments when people act like nothing is wrong with him and him playing so badly is the norm for him on this surface (which is absolutely not true). That doesn't mean I sympathize. As far as I'm concerned, Nadal's season ended the moment he pulled out of the US Open, so I honestly have little emotional investment in any of his matches, and certainly not enough to sympathize.

I certainly didn't say that his level was the norm for this surface. But I do agree with Front that he seemed to perform ok in the previous matches. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth, when the idea is put forward that the only reason he can play badly is his ailment. I mean... what are his team doing for their money? If he was at risk he wouldn't have been allowed to play. It seems to me entirely more plausible that his usual patchy form at this time of the season as well as his lack of playing time in recent months are sufficient reason to explain this performance. To bring up appendicitis because of this is precisely why non Rafa fans roll their eyes when every poor performance has to be explained away by injuries

Well said. I think you hit the nail on the head. I think novak fans know novak is far too capable of playing garbage, injury free.

:woohoos:blowup Just wanted to use these fancy new emoticons

 

[Fiero425]

Yes, the same standards apply to both given their equal pedigree. And of course, if both players play like crap, it automatically means that an injury couldn't have been why one of them did.

Since when has Nadal had any kind of pedigree on indoor hard courts? Unless you mean this 'cos he does often make a dog's dinner of indoor season!

This is one of the stupidest arguments you've yet to bring up in this thread.

A) Nadal has won a Masters indoor, made multiple indoor finals, and has made two WTF finals. Is it a pedigree compared to say, Federer? Surely not. But it's a pedigree compared to just about 95% of the tour, of which Coric takes part.

B) Making 19 unforced errors in a set for Nadal, on ANY surface is too much. The surface may not suit his spin but in case you haven't heard, the height of the net is the same, as is the length and width of the court, so blaming the surface on unforced errors is dumb, even by your level of argumentation's standard in this thread.

C) Are you done making a joke out of your posts?

There's no joke here. Be honest and score Nadal's performance on indoor hard courts out of 10. Personally I'd make it a 5 compared to his play on the other surfaces. Is 5 out of 10 considered good? Not to me anyway.

That's some pedigree to disappear for the most part indoors; supposedly with THE GOAT label hanging on him! :angel: :dodgy: :cover Grass and Indoor results are really failing him as time goes on; vs qualifyers, wild-cards, and no names! So sad!

 

[DarthFed]

Since when has Nadal had any kind of pedigree on indoor hard courts? Unless you mean this 'cos he does often make a dog's dinner of indoor season!

This is one of the stupidest arguments you've yet to bring up in this thread.

A) Nadal has won a Masters indoor, made multiple indoor finals, and has made two WTF finals. Is it a pedigree compared to say, Federer? Surely not. But it's a pedigree compared to just about 95% of the tour, of which Coric takes part.

B) Making 19 unforced errors in a set for Nadal, on ANY surface is too much. The surface may not suit his spin but in case you haven't heard, the height of the net is the same, as is the length and width of the court, so blaming the surface on unforced errors is dumb, even by your level of argumentation's standard in this thread.

C) Are you done making a joke out of your posts?

There's no joke here. Be honest and score Nadal's performance on indoor hard courts out of 10. Personally I'd make it a 5 compared to his play on the other surfaces. Is 5 out of 10 considered good? Not to me anyway.

That's some pedigree to disappear for the most part indoors; supposedly with THE GOAT label hanging on him! :angel: :dodgy: :cover Grass and Indoor results are really failing him as time goes on; vs qualifyers, wild-cards, and no names! So sad!

I imagine you're about as sad about it as I am!

 

[brokenshoelace]

Rafa being garbage indoors is nothing new BS. This year is just worse than normal.

Dude, you guys are utterly predictable. I specifically brought up this argument way before anyone mentioned it because I expected it, and I challenged all of you to mention the last time Nadal suffered 3 consecutive losses in the QF or BEFORE (two of which happened before) at this time of the year, and we're barely midway through the fall season.

Let's look at Nadal's "garbage" results at this time of the season since 2005:

2005: Won Beijing and Madrid before being forced out of Paris and YEC due to an injury (yeah, he had actually won the two tournaments he entered).
2006: Lost to Berdych in the QF of Madrid, skipped Paris, and lost in the semis of the YEC to Federer.
2007: Lost to Nalbandian (who was beating literally everyone) early in Madrid, reached the final in Paris (once again losing to Nalbandian, who again was red hot), and lost to Federer in the semis of the YEC.
2008: Lost to Simon in the semis of Madrid, retired against Davydenko in Paris after having lost the first set and didn't play in the YEC due to injury.
2009: Reached the finals of Shanghai (lost to Davydenko). Reached the semis of Paris (lost to Djokovic). Got admittedly trashed at the WTF (except it's a tournament consisting of top 8 players, and not Klizan, Lopez and Coric).
2010: Won Tokyo. Lost to Jurgen Melzer in Shanghai (bad loss to be sure), but reached the final of the WTF and beat Murray, Djokovic, Berdych and Roddick on the way.
2011: Lost in the final of Tokyo against Murray. Lost to Mayer in Shanghai (another bad loss. So far you'll notice he hasn't had many of them over this 7 season stretch), skipped Paris, lost to Federer and Tsonga at the WTF.
2012: Missed the entire season due to struggling to overcome his tough loss to Rosol at Wimbledon and/or serving a silent ban.
2013: Lost in the finals of Beijing to Djokovic. Lost in the semis of Shanghai to Del Potro. Semis of Paris to Ferrer (a match that somehow everyone here said was a tank job, presumably because Ferrer is about the only player you guys dislike as much as Rafa, lol) and lost in the final of the WTF to Djokovic.


Now looking at all of the above, is it stellar by Nadal's standards? Absolutely, 100% not. Is it better than 95% of the tour? Most likely. Could you probably find similar bad losses if you look at most players during a particular stretch of a season each year? Almost 100% guaranteed. And now, most importantly, is ANY of the above NEARLY as bad as losing to Klizan, Lopez and Coric (and we haven't even reached Bercy and the WTF yet) without ever going beyond the QF?

Sorry, but none of the above seasons are remotely comparable to this. If you're going to tell me that this is just a coincidence, despite the fact that A) He had just returned from a wrist injury that was being assessed on a day-to-day basis leading up to his participation in Beijing (which was in doubt) and B) his appendicitis, then I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it.

 

[Federberg]

It's hard for me to tell how good this kid can be, but it's very promising that he wasn't afraid of winning against a big gun. A teenager no less!

 

[Fiero425]

This is one of the stupidest arguments you've yet to bring up in this thread.

A) Nadal has won a Masters indoor, made multiple indoor finals, and has made two WTF finals. Is it a pedigree compared to say, Federer? Surely not. But it's a pedigree compared to just about 95% of the tour, of which Coric takes part.

B) Making 19 unforced errors in a set for Nadal, on ANY surface is too much. The surface may not suit his spin but in case you haven't heard, the height of the net is the same, as is the length and width of the court, so blaming the surface on unforced errors is dumb, even by your level of argumentation's standard in this thread.

C) Are you done making a joke out of your posts?

There's no joke here. Be honest and score Nadal's performance on indoor hard courts out of 10. Personally I'd make it a 5 compared to his play on the other surfaces. Is 5 out of 10 considered good? Not to me anyway.

That's some pedigree to disappear for the most part indoors; supposedly with THE GOAT label hanging on him! :angel: :dodgy: :cover Grass and Indoor results are really failing him as time goes on; vs qualifyers, wild-cards, and no names! So sad!

I imagine you're about as sad about it as I am!

Oh I'm inconsolable! :cry :lolz: :laydownlaughing :angel:

 

[Front242]

Btw, Nadal isn't out of the Paris masters for appendix surgery, it's "personal reasons" We all know it's for his appendectomy so why make a lame excuse when his team said they were organizing the surgery for after Basel?!

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2014/10/rafael-nadal-pulls-out-of-paris-masters/53118/#.VEqgmckpC2U

 

[JesuslookslikeBorg]

:woohoos :woohoos:woohoos:woohoos:eyepop

 

[Federberg]

Was Tokyo indoors?

 

[Fiero425]

Btw, Nadal isn't out of the Paris masters for appendix surgery, it's "personal reasons" We all know it's for his appendectomy so why make a lame excuse when his team said they were organizing the surgery for after Basel?!

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2014/10/rafael-nadal-pulls-out-of-paris-masters/53118/#.VEqgmckpC2U

All the more reason I haven't taken anything Nadal and his "camp" have to say seriously! They are without a doubt the most disingenuous team out there; always trying to save face when it isn't necessary! Idiot! :nono uzzled :huh: